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Brogden Quits parliament (1 Viewer)

leetom

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erawamai said:
Federally I don't think the Liberals need to do this. People will vote for the party that provides the best tax cuts. As long as people have money in their pockets they will vote for the party in power. As long as the economy is good, interest rates are low and people can pay consumer goods off in credit then all is good. John Howard could shoot boat people, strangle aboriginal people, have gays killed off by ASIO and destroy unions but he would still be voted in if the economy is strong. 'It's the economy stupid'. People don't care about work conditions, Human Rights, or equity and fairness they care about money. Simple.
Depressing, but probably accurate. There is a perception that the Liberals are economically superior to Labor. This perception, no doubt bolstered by the Howard Government's positive history in economic management, and the continued economic prosperity most likely to prevail between now and the next election will serve to greatly aid the Government in holding power.

Combatting the Liberals on the economic front is necessary- we know what happens when an Opposition Leader decides to leave it alone and hope for the best. And since, as era has pointed out, strong economic peformance almost guarantees election victory, the Labor Party must address it.

And the Labor Party is not without ammunition for the economic front. Current economic prosperity is largely attributable to reforms implemented back in the Keating era. (Becoming Labor propagandist briefly, the reforms were visionary and a massive credit to Keating's Government as they had the nation's long-term economic benefit in best interest). To become a recognised contender on the economic front, I believe that the Labor Party must staple itself to current economic prosperity. To what extent this is achievable I don't know. It would depend upon how many aspects of current economic prosperity can be attributed to the Labor Party and how many are attributable to the Howard Government, and how easily this can be simplified for electoral consumption.

There is unfortunately one problem with this concept though. The Keating reforms had short-term negative impacts on the Australian family- indeed Keating was removed for his reforms and their initial consequences. As I see it, by the time the Keating reforms bore fruit, Howard had taken government and was able to claim the credit.

So ultimately while I think the ALP can take some ground on the economic front, it is impossible for the Party to hold it over the Libs, especially with the Libs in Government and continued economic prosperity.

However, the most important line in erawami's observation of the Australian electorate's voting motivations is
As long as people have money in their pockets they will vote for the party in power.
This is where IR reforms comes into play. Since the ALP cannot hope to win voters on the economic front, it must successfully convince the electorate that with Howard's reforms job security is compromised. Essentially, this boils down to scaring people into voting ALP.

Individuals operate on a 'hierarchy of needs', the foundation need being an income. 'Lower order needs' have to be largely satisfied before an individual can pursue 'higher order needs', and if the lower order need of income is threatened the individual will place his vote so as to best ensure the security of his lower order need.

Which, in an Australian context is the income (ie earned salary from work). The ALP needs to peg the threat to income to the Howard Government. A basic theory of income>economic management.

Ideally, I would rather see the ALP return to power through a victory on national identity, which would involve putting the Republic back on the agenda and promoting it with healthy amounts of nationalism and defined Australian values, seeing an ALP Republican triumph over Howard-monarchy traditionalism.

But referring again to erawami's central line, the majority of Australians don't care for a sense of modern identity, but for monetary prosperity.
 
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withoutaface

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wikiwiki said:
I know what you meant with the big tent.

I'm just saying that fundamentally the party is a socially conservative party: if you aren't a conservative then, really, why are you a member of the party?

Also im not THAT extreme to say "my way or the highway". I agree, dissent is a necessary part but not to the point where you are philosophically opposed to a party's core values.
Would you consider libertarians to be legitimate members of the party?
 

Iron

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When people think Keating, they think inflation and high unemployment. Labor therefore disowned him and his big picture.

When Kimbo talks about the economy and Labor's historic success (not including the last time in power) he seems to be speaking out of obligation to voters who view government's role as to give them dosh, which is just not what Labor's about. It doesn't wash. Taking a reactionary approach to the ecomony (petrol is expensive - Howard must make it cheaper) furthers the impression of poll chasing.

Labor retained government throughout the 80s and mid 90s not because they were managing the economy well, but because they could convice people that the other side couldnt do it better.

The disastrous war in Vietnam combined with inflation ended the wave of prosperity that the libs rode since Menzies. I think that when Iraq really goes to the shit and the world economy really starts to be pinched by it, Labor has a chance.
 

erawamai

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wikiwiki said:
don't confuse what i can conservatism with what it seems to refer to these days : anti-semitism, bible-bashing, and homophobia.
So what is conservatism then?

'Progressive' values would attack racism, encourage acceptance of various religious viewpoints, and discourage discrimination on the basis of sexuality.

People assume conservative is counter to progressive.
 

erawamai

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wikiwiki said:
I have old-fashioned moral values - not overly impressed by smoking, casual sex, drug use, impolite people in public and violence/sex on tv.
What on earth do those 'conserative' values have to do with politics?

---------------

On a personal scale those values are conservative or prudish. But they are have nothing to do with politics.

It would also be wrong to suggest that smoking, drug use and being impolite are monopolised to 'conservative' people. I'm sure plenty of 'liberal' people out there don't care whether people have casual sex or not.I'm more concerned with excessive voilence on TV screens rather than sex.
 
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erawamai

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wikiwiki said:
bible bashers are pushing them as policy?
When did the conservative party (Libs) have a policy on being polite in public? I also believe both parties conservative and progressive feel smoking is a bad idea.
 

Generator

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wikiwiki said:
progressive is being taken over by radicals.
Huh? How so?

In all honesty, I may just be blind to this given that I consider myself to be a progressive, but I will say that I haven't really seen much evidence of an extreme push towards progressive notions, especially when you consider the stance of the progressives against that of the emerging far christian right.
 

erawamai

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wikiwiki said:
don't confuse what i can conservatism with what it seems to refer to these days : anti-semitism, bible-bashing, and homophobia.
Alot of people can easily reference current moral crusades carried out by some fervant conservtives with the above.

Certainly an undercurrent in the pro VSU policy is homophobia or the hating of people on the basis of their sexuality. Which is kind of Sad. Whenever I see someone spurt out a bit of gay hate I can only think that they are so insecure about their own sexuality that they feel the need to enforce and secure their own by rediculing homosexuality (essentially you knock something in order to prove to yourself that your position is correct. It's like people who go to church all the time. So they can have their insecurities about their faith reaffirmed in a nice friendly environment where everyone agrees with them)
 
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erawamai

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wikiwiki said:
they aren't conservatives. stop calling them that: name them for what they are, extremists.
There are two types of conservatives. I looked up wikipedia, your favourite. One group of conservatives wants to keep the status quo. The other wants to go even further back to a 'golden age'.

my pro VSU stance has nothing to do with gays although it is sad that people like that do exist.
I never said you stance had anything to do with it. However you cannot deny that many people express a homophobic view for supporting VSU.

If student union's supported a jewish rights group and the libs wanted to get rid of it..would that be antisemitism?
I cannot see why the Liberals would want toget rid of a jewish group.
 

withoutaface

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If they want to take society backwards they'd be regressives. Conservatism implies conserving things, in this case the status quo.
 

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