Capitalism or Communism? (5 Viewers)

[boris]

I'm sorry, what were those luxuries you failed to mention?
They can get cars. They can get jets. They can get boats. It depends on their income.
Just because I live in Australia, it does not mean I have a luxurious lifestyle and just because somebody lives in Ethiopia it does not mean they have a shit life.

The luxury of being able to walk down the street and not get shot at.
The luxury of being able to drink water that you havent pissed in, or that your elephant hasn't pissed in.
The luxury of being able to talk the shit you do without fear of repercussions.

 

[boris]

Absolute poverty vs relative poverty, guy.

Social relativism doesn't apply to utility when measured in first world terms.


I say we give every starving person in africa a Jetski.

Yeah and then watch as they turn them into weapons to kill each other with.

 

[bassistx]

Fair enough, just use a wide range of sources next time. A BS textbook won't help you in its whole in a commie v capital argument.

You're right. Because it doesn't talk about political systems.
It was used as a reference to 'globalisation'only. I don't see why I should research this issue for a discussion about politics, but in any case, I've worked against it for a number of years. Since I was 12 or earlier so I know a fair bit, but you have to include a source list for every post it seems.

 

[bassistx]

Definitions of luxury on the Web:

* something that is an indulgence rather than a necessity
* lavishness: the quality possessed by something that is excessively expensive
* wealth as evidenced by sumptuous living

<3 Google

EDIT: you listed basic human rights.

 

[williamc]

So you're anti free trade? (As in purely free trade on the terms of the traders, not the terms of the government)

On page 13 it says that dumping can occur?!??!?!?!

 

[boris]

Hey if everyone's bitching about Africa I suggest you all look up the NPR Intelligence Squared Debate on "Is Aid to Africa doing more harm than good", listen to it, and then, you know, not be retards.

"The problem with aid, in short, is that it sets itself up as the kind of know-all and end-all. ...Aid, by definition, is outsiders telling people in a place how to do it, and telling them if they don't behave satisfactorily — that is, the best practices that you now see in humanitarianism: if you're not democratic, if you are not transparent, if you don't do this, that or the other thing — then we will withdraw the aid. Well, if ever there was an example of any unequal form of relations, I would submit to you that that's it, which is why, precisely, in depriving people of their agency, aid does more harm than good."

Hello, sir.

 

[sam04u]

Africa is fucked because successive centuries of governments have denied the population the chance to thrive.

No, Africa is fucked up because their national identity, workforce, pride and sense of unity was stolen from them. Their workforce was sent on slave ships to the U.S (most men), who worked as slaves for no pay. And by the time the slave-trade stopped, they had nothing left. You don't grow men and women on trees, men aren't meant to wear shackles and pick cottons at the whip.

If you look at the US they started with absolutely nothing, but the founding fathers were relatively liberal minded people who believed in the entrepreneurial spirit, and, from that, wealth was created all by itself.

No, it was actually the result of a couple of incestuous brits who decided to massacre the indigenous population and establish their own society. It's funny how they constantly state "Columbus discovered America", there were people already there, it was already discovered.

Slaves, stolen land, and the best German scientists they could get their hands on? That's "liberal minded people" alright.

The great depression

The "first" great depression. But definately not the last.

 

[boris]

Definitions of luxury on the Web:

* something that is an indulgence rather than a necessity
* lavishness: the quality possessed by something that is excessively expensive
* wealth as evidenced by sumptuous living

<3 Google

EDIT: you listed basic human rights.

I would consider these basic human rights to be luxurious, no?

 

[bassistx]

So you're anti free trade? (As in purely free trade on the terms of the traders, not the terms of the government)

I'm anti franchises and TNCs on every corner on every street.
The kind of atmosphere that makes you feel as if they landed from space and just took over the planet. There are pros and cons, but to me, the cons out[SIZE=-1]weigh the pros.
If trade [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]wasn't free, the government could earn more and spend it on stuff like building better roads etc. Like I said, there are pros and cons.[/SIZE]

 

[boris]

I'm anti franchises and TNCs on every corner on every street.
The kind of atmosphere that makes you feel as if they landed from space and just took over the planet. There are pros and cons, but to me, the cons out[SIZE=-1]weigh the pros.
If trade [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]wasn't free, the government could earn more and spend it on stuff like building better roads etc. Like I said, there are pros and cons.[/SIZE]

Pro: These TNC's are employing people
Con: They look like space buildings!


Solution: Poke your eyeballs out.

 

[bassistx]

I would consider these basic human rights to be luxurious, no?

Human rights are not a luxury. [SIZE=-1]wtf. That's [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]why you have human rights groups - to make sure everybody gets them, [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]wherever they live, no matter their financial situation[/SIZE][SIZE=-1].



[/SIZE]

 

[williamc]

I'm anti franchises and TNCs on every corner on every street.
The kind of atmosphere that makes you feel as if they landed from space and just took over the planet. There are pros and cons, but to me, the cons out[SIZE=-1]weigh the pros.
If trade [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]wasn't free, the government could earn more and spend it on stuff like building better roads etc. Like I said, there are pros and cons.[/SIZE]

so what if tariffs generate revenue for the government, consumers have to pay more, thus lowering our purchasing power. pushing up inflation and stuff.

 

[bassistx]

so what if tariffs generate revenue for the government, consumers have to pay more, thus lowering our purchasing power. pushing up inflation and stuff.

This evens out [SIZE=-1]when you don't have to pay for health insurance and other services. I reckon it'd be a saving or just about the same.
At least the products are made in the country they are sold in. This employees people in that country, not overseas. It is also easier to control fraud and quality.

[/SIZE]

Pro: These TNC's are employing people
Con: They look like space buildings!


Solution: Poke your eyeballs out.

Small businesses also employee people. 78% of people [SIZE=-1]work in the service industry. Less people [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]will be affected than you think.[/SIZE]

 

[williamc]

This evens out [SIZE=-1]when you don't have to pay for health insurance and other services. I reckon it'd be a saving or just about the same.
At least the products are made in the country they are sold in. This employees people in that country, not overseas. It is also easier to control fraud and quality.

[/SIZE]

why the fuck would you want inefficent industrys still operating if prices are going to go up.

Saving domestic employment in the short term, but inhibiting it in the long term.

 

[bassistx]

Sounds like an issue of brand fatigue.

I think you'll find in most situations where TNC's and franchises have spread all over the globe, it isn't because of free trade in any way, shape, or form. It's due to corporate welfare from the host nations that want to bring these companies to their shores in order to foster some semblance or notion of economic growth.

It's the corporate welfare, and the governmental interaction that leads to that level of corruption and monopolisation, not a free market.

C.F "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man" - John Perkins
"No Logo" - Naomi Klein

Do you have anything to say about s[SIZE=-1]weatshops?
Because I sure as hell do.
[/SIZE]

 

[boris]

This evens out [SIZE=-1]when you don't have to pay for health insurance and other services. I reckon it'd be a saving or just about the same.
At least the products are made in the country they are sold in. This employees people in that country, not overseas. It is also easier to control fraud and quality.

[/SIZE]

Small businesses also employee people. 78% of people [SIZE=-1]work in the service industry. Less people [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]will be affected than you think.[/SIZE]

Well if small business employs 78%, aren't you exaggerating about the monopoly of TNC's?

 

[bassistx]

No it does not. If you think that Governmental beauracracy = quality, you have obviously never been to a private hospital.

What right do you have to dictate to individuals what countries their products can be sold in? Say I want to buy a particular T-Shirt, or Computer part from overseas, what right does the Government have to say I can't purchase that?

In particular, medication. What right does the Government have to deny me medications that may not be on the PBS (So, expensive), but it's illegal to import that drug from overseas due to scheduling problems (Under the guise of the war on drugs).

[/size]


1 in 10 small businesses fail because of the level of corporate welfare the government (At all levels) affords TNCs and large corporations.

I [SIZE=-1]will come back to this. I need to pee and this is going to take a bit lol.
But I meant that in a communist system, health care [/SIZE]would be free, I wasn't referring to it in any other way.
[SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE]

why the fuck would you want inefficent industrys still operating if prices are going to go up.

Saving domestic employment in the short term, but inhibiting it in the long term.

Consumers still spend. Interest rates are going up and yet we're shopping, shopping, shopping. They are inefficient if they can't maximise their output, where did I say that their outputs will go down?

Well if small business employs 78%, aren't you exaggerating about the monopoly of TNC's?

e.g. Monopoly of McD's over food industry etc. All within their industries, not jobs....
[SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE]

EDIT: I meant market share.

 

[boris]

e.g. Monopoly of McD's over food industry etc. All within their industries, not jobs....

Motherfucker you're thick. MCDONALDS DON'T HAVE A MONOPOLY OVER THE FOOD INDUSTRY.

Scenario;
In my town we have a McDonalds, KFC, Eagle Boys and Pizza Hut. Alternatively we also have 3 coffee shops, 4 take away (fish and chip style) and a bucket load of restaurants/bars.

If I am in a hurry and need something quick for lunch I order McDonalds. If I have time to kill and feel like eating something that isn't shit, I try one of the local cafes. THAT LOOKS TO ME LIKE FUCKING CHOICE RIGHT THERE.

McDonalds in my town also donates extensively to local sporting groups. Most of the local cafes do not.

Man, Maccas is like, the epitome of evil.

 

[williamc]

[SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE]
Consumers still spend. Interest rates are going up and yet we're shopping, shopping, shopping. They are inefficient if they can't maximise their output, where did I say that their outputs will go down?

Consumers are spending more than they should be.

The goverment is contradicting the moves made by the central bank to slow down our economy, by lowering taxes and boosting expenditure, to which interest rate movements havn't had the same economic effect to which they should have.

They are inefficent because labour costs to much in australia.

 

[^CoSMic DoRiS^^]

Motherfucker you're thick. MCDONALDS DON'T HAVE A MONOPOLY OVER THE FOOD INDUSTRY.

Scenario;
In my town we have a McDonalds, KFC, Eagle Boys and Pizza Hut. Alternatively we also have 3 coffee shops, 4 take away (fish and chip style) and a bucket load of restaurants/bars.

If I am in a hurry and need something quick for lunch I order McDonalds. If I have time to kill and feel like eating something that isn't shit, I try one of the local cafes. THAT LOOKS TO ME LIKE FUCKING CHOICE RIGHT THERE.

McDonalds in my town also donates extensively to local sporting groups. Most of the local cafes do not.

Man, Maccas is like, the epitome of evil.

i was just about to say something to this effect.

Just because a company is successful enough to have a monopoly over its industry doesn't mean it's in some way worse, morally, than a small business, either.