Compulsory uni service fees to be reintroduced (2 Viewers)

[katie tully]

This battle isnt about giving money to the left, it's about whether we want to foster a closer community on campus, or whether we want alienated individuals ordering a degree like they order a burger.

If I want to order a degree like a burger, why can't I? I'm paying for this degree, nobody else, so why should I give a shit whether the uni community is fostering? Not being able to get subsidized beer isn't going to reduce the uni community to a group of mindless unsociable donkeys.

 

[banco55]

Sure there is! The fee, like tax, is really the best incentive we have to ensure that people engage with their community. United by greed!

I just think that the right should grow a pair and take on the left in honest battle for these funds instead of pulling down the temple on all of our heads. I pretty much dont care what the money is spent on. It's the spoils of war, to be used by the victor in a manner consistent with their platform. The ancient art of rhetoric is threatened!

That's a dumb argument. The Right's position (generally) speaking is that this money shouldn't be collected at all (or at least much less of it should be collected and it should go towards a few fairly narrow purposes). Your argument is like telling the right wing at a macro level to stop arguing for lower taxes and just come up with more "right wing" ways to piss away tax revenue.

 

[Iron]

[Beloved KT]Because a social education is as valuable as your degree. A strong society needs critical individuals, capable of high-level interaction with other people. You should be able to communicate your tertiary education with other people forcefully and diplomatically. If we do not arm our younglings with this ancient rhetorical power, then they are left vulnerable to the exploitations of other, larger forces - doomed to a life of slavery to the will of corporate advertising, government propaganda, or even religious hatred.

That's what student politics is all about! It's what a university is all about! If only people would listen!

 

[katie tully]

That's all very good Iron, but I don't need to pay $400+ for the privilege of socially interacting with people I don't particularly like.

 

[banco55]

Because a social education is as valuable as your degree. A strong society needs critical individuals, capable of high-level interaction with other people. You should be able to communicate your tertiary education with other people forcefully and diplomatically. If we do not arm our younglings with this ancient rhetorical power, then they are left vulnerable to the exploitations of other, larger forces - doomed to a life of slavery to the will of corporate advertising, government propaganda, or even religious hatred.

That's what student politics is all about! It's what a university is all about! If only people would listen!

So your argument basically boils down to the idea that money should be extracted from students so that the few people who give a shit about student politics (resume kings/queens and ideologues) can argue about how the money is spent?

 

[Iron]

That's a dumb argument. The Right's position (generally) speaking is that this money shouldn't be collected at all (or at least much less of it should be collected and it should go towards a few fairly narrow purposes). Your argument is like telling the right wing at a macro level to stop arguing for lower taxes and just come up with more "right wing" ways to piss away tax revenue.

No, the right-wing arguments for lower taxes on a government level are of course valid. But the uni fee is just practise - a love nipp, inflicting just enough pain to make students interested in the outcome of the monies. It is essential training, invaluable experience

 

[Iron]

So your argument basically boils down to the idea that money should be extracted from students so that the few people who give a shit about student politics (resume kings/queens and ideologues) can argue about how the money is spent?

Yes.
If you dont 'give a shit', then youre doomed to societal exploitation anyway

 

[xeuyrawp]

The fee, like tax, is really the best incentive we have to ensure that people engage with their community.

No it's not. You just think so, because in your experience at ANU, students effectively have to engage with each other, so you don't see the real problem that most universities face: "How do we get students to really interact?"

For the majority of students, the best incentive is decent management, oversight, and support of student bodies by people who know what they're doing. In the majority of cases that I've seen, dropkicks fuck everything up with their own agendas. If the businesses and services are managed properly, student unionism is appealing to many students.

 

[Iron]

That's all very good Iron, but I don't need to pay $400+ for the privilege of socially interacting with people I don't particularly like.

Sure, I have no firm price in mind, though $200 to me seems very reasonable. But it's not so much a privilege as a civic responsibility to be forced to interact nicely with people you may hate. This tears down walls of hatred, matures the individual, strengthens the community

 

[withoutaface]

If you're at USyd, you're especially fucked. The plan is to deny people who pay the amenities fee access to services unless they pay another $99 on top of that for ACCESS membership.

 

[katie tully]

Rose
Jackson

for e.g. lol @ the youtube video of her on some program making a penis of herself.

 

[jb_nc]

If you're at USyd, you're especially fucked. The plan is to deny people who pay the amenities fee access to services unless they pay another $99 on top of that for ACCESS membership.

lol.

That is some shit shit.

Do you know what we will be able to exclude our money from being spent on?

 

[Silver Persian]

If you're at USyd, you're especially fucked. The plan is to deny people who pay the amenities fee access to services unless they pay another $99 on top of that for ACCESS membership.

Deny access to which services?

 

[katie tully]

Sure, I have no firm price in mind, though $200 to me seems very reasonable. But it's not so much a privilege as a civic responsibility to be forced to interact nicely with people you may hate. This tears down walls of hatred, matures the individual, strengthens the community

I still don't see how me paying to "forcibly interact" with people I don't like is going to make me want to interact with them anymore than if I didn't pay. Like, if I have to be civil I will.. But I just do not comprehend how paying to do it is going to make me resent them less.

Do not compute.

 

[banco55]

Yes.
If you dont 'give a shit', then youre doomed to societal exploitation anyway

Student politics (despite what its practitioners may think) is small beer. It's perfectly possible to be engaged with university life and have zero engagement with formal university politics.

 

[katie tully]

My first year at CSU, we weren't allowed to re-enroll or graduate unless we'd paid the fee, which by 06 had been nicely repackaged as "IT levy and other services"

 

[withoutaface]

Deny access to which services?

Being an amenities fee payer in 2010 will be the same to the Union as being a non-ACCESS card holder is now. No discounts, no C&S, etc.

jb_nc: It's likely the university will divide the money between the Union and the Sports Union.

 

[Iron]

No it's not. You just think so, because in your experience at ANU, students effectively have to engage with each other, so you don't see the real problem that most universities face: "How do we get students to really interact?"

For the majority of students, the best incentive is decent management, oversight, and support of student bodies by people who know what they're doing. In the majority of cases that I've seen, dropkicks fuck everything up with their own agendas. If the businesses and services are managed properly, student unionism is appealing to many students.

I dont agree much at all old friend. The fee aligns well with tax we'll all later pay, if we're not already. It provides a safe environment to lobby for how we want these pooled funds used for the collective benifit. It allows us to apply these valuable lessons not only to state and federal political campaigns, but also to other interactions with authority. It makes us demand more quality, earlier on. This in turn breeds better authority!

 

[jb_nc]

Being an amenities fee payer in 2010 will be the same to the Union as being a non-ACCESS card holder is now. No discounts, no C&S, etc.

jb_nc: It's likely the university will divide the money between the Union and the Sports Union.

IDK, I remembered Kate Ellis/someone saying we could exclude our money being spent for political purposes and all that shit.

True?

 

[xeuyrawp]

I still don't see how me paying to "forcibly interact" with people I don't like is going to make me want to interact with them anymore than if I didn't pay.

Honestly, like I said, you need to remember that he's completely in a different context to most students. I encounter this constantly when I work with a big survey (AUSSE).