Compulsory voting (1 Viewer)

[Graney]

What do you think of compulsory voting?

Voting in the poll attached to this thread is not compulsory, imagine if all Australians over 18 were required to log into these forums and vote on this poll, it would be quite a load on the servers I expect.

I am not voting for the lesser of the two devils. Voting is an illustion which allows the voters to envisage that they have rights to choose. Thus, it is compulsory to vote.

Only 10 countries globally enforce compulsory voting. It is interesting the esteemed company Australia is in, by maintaining compulsory voting.

Countries with compulsory voting: ecuador, uruguay, nauru, 'stralia, zimbabwe, liberia, north korea, republic of congo, etc

Not compulsory: All of western europe, north america, etc.

 

[Graney]

Before you ask, I definitely ticked the box to add a poll to this thread, oh well.

 

[wannaspoon]

not a fan of compulsory voting... Because, A - I can't be fucked going to the polls to vote for a dickhead that's going to fuck me around regardless, and, B - Well, George Carlin sums up my point of view...

I'd rather superglue my foreskin than go and vote...

Find it hard to believe that in a democratic society you can't exercise your right NOT! to vote... well, technically you can... but you have to go in there and shit... think I will just draw an assortment of dicks on my ballot paper this September 7

 

[Frostbitten]

When I speak with people about politics and they go: "I don't like Kevin Rudd so I'm going to vote for Abbot" I wish they weren't allowed to touch the political system. All the power the two main political party receives are from retards, nothing productive comes from this system.

 

[scuba_steve2121]

Compulsory voting is like the cross country in high school. Nobody wants to do it, half don’t even try, and lots don’t even attend school that day.

It's bullshit

 

[funkshen]

compulsory voting isn't a big deal and if you think it is, you're probably a cunt.

i understand that some people have moral objections to being forced to vote, but if that's the case compuslory voting is only one of many morally compromising situations you must find yourself in every day. your suffering is self imposed and thus i have little to no sympathy for you. general complaints about "not being arsed to go vote" or "it's too much of an effort to go vote" generally indicate that you are a worthless piece of shit considering that unless you live in woop woop your polling station is right around the corner and, by law, almost everyone has the opportunity to vote (elections are on weekends, you get time off work to go vote, postal voting and pre-polling, so on and so forth).

unless anyone here can produce any data on attitudes towards voting (i.e.: do you agree with compulsory voting; would you vote if you were not required by law to do so) this discussion will probably be one giant exercise in begging the question. and no, the plural of anecdotes is not data.

we know for a fact that voluntary voting systems do suffer from flaws that mandatory voting systems don't, such as perverse incentives (e.g. pandering to the old fuck demographic) and from voter fatigue (lack of trust in government --> less voter turnout --> less accountability --> worse government). whether, as a consequence, mandatory voting systems are more robust and more accurately reflect popular sentiments remains debatable. for instance, 2010 was a record year for informal votes.

Compulsory voting is like the cross country in high school. Nobody wants to do it, half don’t even try, and lots don’t even attend school that day.

It's bullshit

ironically, you only further my point; people are, in general, lazy sacks of shit who have to be forced into exercising even a trivial amount of responsibility over their lives.

also i never had a problem with doing the cross country.

 

[spatula232]

Even though I'm not old enough to vote yet (and when I am I will), I see voting as a scheme by the government to make you feel as though your point actually makes a difference. If this was the case, how come someone's educated vote will just be nullified by someone who votes for the sake of having to? It doesn't actually seem fair.

When I speak with people about politics and they go: "I don't like Kevin Rudd so I'm going to vote for Abbot" I wish they weren't allowed to touch the political system. All the power the two main political party receives are from retards, nothing productive comes from this system.

This is also true.

Australia calls itself a democracy, where there is social equality and everyone's say counts. But does it really count? Your vote is one of the many millions that are forced to go. But will it even make a difference?

 

[funkshen]

Even though I'm not old enough to vote yet (and when I am I will), I see voting as a scheme by the government to make you feel as though your point actually makes a difference. If this was the case, how come someone's educated vote will just be nullified by someone who votes for the sake of having to? It doesn't actually seem fair.

This is also true.

Australia calls itself a democracy, where there is social equality and everyone's say counts. But does it really count? Your vote is one of the many millions that are forced to go. But will it even make a difference?

nazi germany called, they want their halfbaked criticisms of democracy back.

 

[townie]

compulsory voting isn't a big deal and if you think it is, you're probably a cunt.

i understand that some people have moral objections to being forced to vote, but if that's the case compuslory voting is only one of many morally compromising situations you must find yourself in every day. your suffering is self imposed and thus i have little to no sympathy for you. general complaints about "not being arsed to go vote" or "it's too much of an effort to go vote" generally indicate that you are a worthless piece of shit considering that unless you live in woop woop your polling station is right around the corner and, by law, almost everyone has the opportunity to vote (elections are on weekends, you get time off work to go vote, postal voting and pre-polling, so on and so forth).

unless anyone here can produce any data on attitudes towards voting (i.e.: do you agree with compulsory voting; would you vote if you were not required by law to do so) this discussion will probably be one giant exercise in begging the question. and no, the plural of anecdotes is not data.

we know for a fact that voluntary voting systems do suffer from flaws that mandatory voting systems don't, such as perverse incentives (e.g. pandering to the old fuck demographic) and from voter fatigue (lack of trust in government --> less voter turnout --> less accountability --> worse government). whether, as a consequence, mandatory voting systems are more robust and more accurately reflect popular sentiments remains debatable. for instance, 2010 was a record year for informal votes.



ironically, you only further my point; people are, in general, lazy sacks of shit who have to be forced into exercising even a trivial amount of responsibility over their lives.

also i never had a problem with doing the cross country.

Well said

 

[Rafy]

unless anyone here can produce any data on attitudes towards voting (i.e.: do you agree with compulsory voting; would you vote if you were not required by law to do so) this discussion will probably be one giant exercise in begging the question. and no, the plural of anecdotes is not data.

"There is evidence of strong popular support for compulsory voting. The first Australian Election Study, after the 1996 election, showed 74% of respondents supported compulsory voting at federal elections.
The Australian Election Study after the 2004 election was still showing 74% in support. A Morgan poll in 2005 showed 71% support, and an Ipsos-Mackay Study, also in 2005, showed 74%."

"...compulsory voting enjoys popular support. The polls concluded that three in every four Australians support compulsory voting ahead of voluntary voting. There was also evidence that this support crosses party lines." (Parliamentary committee report)

Support did plumet in 2010 however that is likely to have been caused by the nature of that election and disdain for the political situation as a whole, it is still on the long term trend and still enjoys strong support

 

[funkshen]

excellent data, Rafy.

i'm not surprised that the analogue of american voter fatigue (fall in voter turnout rate) in australia is support for compulsory voting.

let's also not forget that the only country in the world to legalise marijuana is our compulsory voting compadre, Uruguay.

 

[Tasteless]

not voting is as much a legitimate political choice as voting imo
it should send the message that you don't support any particular party / have little faith in their ability to govern to what you consider responsibly or adequately

but as funkface says, they're probably just assumed to be lazy cunts (and in most cases that's probably rightly so)

 

[Crobat]

When I speak with people about politics and they go: "I don't like Kevin Rudd so I'm going to vote for Abbot" I wish they weren't allowed to touch the political system. All the power the two main political party receives are from retards, nothing productive comes from this system.

I have no issues with that line of thought for your specific example. While I think Abbott is a gronk, I cringe at the idea of Rudd as PM again, so by all means these people can vote Abbott

But on a serious note, the underlying issue is that leaders and their respective parties are being elected on basis of disapproval for the other party, rather than approval for their own merit. It makes me wonder whether the bicameral system works as well as intended, and perhaps whether it'll ever allow for another party to actually have impact.

 

[kfnmpah]

how does compulsory voting impact on the ability to make change?

this is a genuine question. a lot of people i have asked have said they will just vote for whoever is 'in' at the moment because they see no problems with how things are. "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" etc. or they'll just "vote for whoever" or pick the "best name" or something along those lines. Or make decisions based on what's trendy without knowing anything or even attempting to do any research. "Sex party! lol" Maybe I'm just talking to a stupid minority.

I'd also like to see more qualitative data as to why people support comp voting. Data is meaningless without... meaning.
Are there legitimate reasons to support comp voting aside from what old mate funky said.

would it really make a difference in terms of % support/results if voting was voluntary? would it make things shift one way or the other in terms of certain areas/people within certain areas being more likely to vote than others and influencing results?

these aren't thought provoking rhetorical questions. I actually want answers/insight pl0x

 

[kfnmpah]

not voting is as much a legitimate political choice as voting imo

some might argue that a donkey vote is exactly that

 

[Lolsmith]

we know for a fact that voluntary voting systems do suffer from flaws that mandatory voting systems don't, such as perverse incentives (e.g. pandering to the old fuck demographic) and from voter fatigue (lack of trust in government --> less voter turnout --> less accountability --> worse government). whether, as a consequence, mandatory voting systems are more robust and more accurately reflect popular sentiments remains debatable. for instance, 2010 was a record year for informal votes

I agree with what else you said but in what world does a voluntary voting system make a government less accountable? Do you mean because they will suffer little to no repercussions politically for their actions because they can assume most people won't vote anyway? And in what world does a mandatory voting system prevent perverse incentives? At least in our system it just panders to marginal seats that don't necessarily represent the rest of the voters, nor encourage good government.

 

[funkshen]

I agree with what else you said but in what world does a voluntary voting system make a government less accountable? Do you mean because they will suffer little to no repercussions politically for their actions because they can assume most people won't vote anyway? And in what world does a mandatory voting system prevent perverse incentives? At least in our system it just panders to marginal seats that don't necessarily represent the rest of the voters, nor encourage good government.

i'm sure you understand the concept, but voter fatigue is another word for falling or low rates of voter turnout. voter fatigue is often the consequence of low confidence in government, the political system, the parties, whatever. i would posit that the demographic distribution of voter fatigue is uneven, and particularly discourages voters who want to protest the current candidates. it obviously depends on the factors leading to low confidence. but it all means that a system of voluntary voting is pro-cylical vis a vis confidence in government. the result is a parliament or president that is less representative and less accountable.

marginal seats exist in both systems of voting so this is can hardly be an argument in favour or against voluntary voting systems. just look at the number of vists the 2012 US presidential candidates made to particular states. i can't be arsed to find the data but they visited the shit out of the battleground states; florida, virginia, ohio, iowa, etc. the others, not so much. i didn't mean to imply that the compulsory voting system exhibited no perverse incentives; only that it exhibited fewer.

 

[Graney]

I'd also like to see more qualitative data as to why people support comp voting. Data is meaningless without... meaning.
Are there legitimate reasons to support comp voting aside from what old mate funky said.

One of the big issues in the USA electoral process is that voluntary votings means the parties spend most of their time and money just trying to get voters to turn out and vote, cf; p. Diddy: "vote or die".

This means there is considerably less discussion of policy, just wastefully convincing people to vote at all consumes all the oxygen, to the detriment of meaning.

As function said about 'old fucks', Bush won on the vote of the lunar christian right, because they turn out to back their guy, which skews policy. A lot of credit was given to the christian right for controlling a few elections, for some reason it didn't raise a mention in the last election, now it's all about hispanics and you have to open the borders to become president.

some might argue that a donkey vote is exactly that

A donkey vote is where you number the candidates on the house of reps ballot paper in sequential order from top to bottom fyi.

 

[Lolsmith]

As function said about 'old fucks', Bush won on the vote of the lunar christian right, because they turn out to back their guy, which skews policy. A lot of credit was given to the christian right for controlling a few elections, for some reason it didn't raise a mention in the last election, now it's all about hispanics and you have to open the borders to become president.

I remember hearing about this. Something along the lines that Romney could have had a lot better of a chance against Obama based on this with the Latin-American vote.

 

[Lolsmith]

i'm sure you understand the concept, but voter fatigue is another word for falling or low rates of voter turnout. voter fatigue is often the consequence of low confidence in government, the political system, the parties, whatever. i would posit that the demographic distribution of voter fatigue is uneven, and particularly discourages voters who want to protest the current candidates. it obviously depends on the factors leading to low confidence. but it all means that a system of voluntary voting is pro-cylical vis a vis confidence in government. the result is a parliament or president that is less representative and less accountable.

marginal seats exist in both systems of voting so this is can hardly be an argument in favour or against voluntary voting systems. just look at the number of vists the 2012 US presidential candidates made to particular states. i can't be arsed to find the data but they visited the shit out of the battleground states; florida, virginia, ohio, iowa, etc. the others, not so much. i didn't mean to imply that the compulsory voting system exhibited no perverse incentives; only that it exhibited fewer.

Yeah, I get what you're saying and combined with what Graney's saying it makes a bit more sense.

Right, 'flyover states' and such.