Does God exist? (18 Viewers)

[lil sawa]

There is suffering in this world, and it is quite often the one's who suffer the most who have the most faith. People who have all they want and 'need' don't have faith, because they think that they can live on material possessions. Countries like Australia, USA, and European countries etc have so much money that they exist simply on material wealth and possession. People in countries in Africa, that are considered 3rd world are more content with their lives, in general. They have everything they need, and they live their lives trying to get what they need, such as food, water and a place to live. Here in our wealthy country, we live our lives to get more than the basic necessities. We don't simply want enough food to live or clean water to drink. These things are just a given to us. We want things like the latest MP3 player, or the best mobile phone. Do we really need these useless little fashion accessories??
In our business of trying to have the 'best and newest' things, we don't notice the little things. We take our lifestyle for granted. I can guarantee that if anything bad were to happen to our world, such as another great depression or a stock-market collapse, there would be chaos. People don't know what to do with their life without computers, Tvs, telephones, games consoles, heaters, air conditioners-alll these luxuries we live with. You see, the people who don't have these extra luxuries that we have often appreciate life much more. I'm not saying that all of them do, but in general.
If we were to stop and take a GOOD HARD LONG look at ourselves, I think we would realise how hollow our lives really are.
On Saturday morning, I had the opportunity to watch the sunrise over the ocean. I have to say that it was THE MOST BEAUTIFUL thing i have ever seen, and it was so humbling. If you have seen the sunrise over the ocean, you will surely agree. If you haven't, CHECK IT OUT! For those who have, you couldn't see that awesome event and not have faith in God. It made me appreciate the world we live in so much more. I am a Christian, and I have quite a strong faith in God. As a Christian, I can often get caught up in the ways of the world. Sometimes I need to stop, and take a look at myself and what I'm doing, and it's things like seeing the sunrise that really make me think. This world is so beautiful, but it's being spoiled so much by all the people in it. The greed, selfishness, anger, violence etc are spoiling the beauty of the world.
what would you do if you had no money to live, and you had to live every day trying to just buy food and clean drinking water???

 

[ur_inner_child]

^^I don't understand why most religious people assume so confidently that people without religion are severely materialistic?

 

[bazookajoe]

My opinion on those sceptics who argue "Why does God allow bad things to happen?" is that if God intervened on any situation, then people would become dependent on him. But again in contrast, if God does nothing, they lose hope in God and religion in general.
People look at terrorism, war, starving children and ask, where's God in that situation? But never asking about the beautiful things in the world, a sunrise/sunset (pardon the lame cliche) etc.
If people are dependent on God, then there's no point in living. Education would be meaningless, as God could just provide you with millions of dollars to live without getting a proper education and a job to go through adulthood and towards death and the afterlife. I suppose the same could be said about those supposedly "underpriveleged" in third world countries. If God came into that situation, then others would be asking, why doesn't God help me?
And for anyone trying to justify their belief in God through some riddle, that's just stupid.

 

[ur_inner_child]

My opinion on those sceptics who argue "Why does God allow bad things to happen?" is that if God intervened on any situation, then people would become dependent on him.

I agree, although adding to that dependency thing, I thik I would say the same about Christians who say "It's okay, it's God's Plan" to terrible situations..

At least I would think so, if I were taking into account what you had just argued...

Actually, its initiated a lot of thought for me..

 

[lilkiwicutie89]

i reckon God exist ..even though im Buddhist.. i

tCare

 

[crazyhomo]

People in countries in Africa, that are considered 3rd world are more content with their lives, in general.

uh huh. really? you believe people living in 3rd world countries are glad they don't have to deal with the burdens of running water and electricity? they are happy just to be alive

i think we should follow the africans example, i was obviously deluding myself when i thought i enjoyed watching movies and listening to music. i would much prefer to literally shit where i eat

that's the secret to pure contentment

 

[crazyhomo]

My opinion on those sceptics who argue "Why does God allow bad things to happen?" is that if God intervened on any situation, then people would become dependent on him. But again in contrast, if God does nothing, they lose hope in God and religion in general.
People look at terrorism, war, starving children and ask, where's God in that situation? But never asking about the beautiful things in the world, a sunrise/sunset (pardon the lame cliche) etc.
If people are dependent on God, then there's no point in living. Education would be meaningless, as God could just provide you with millions of dollars to live without getting a proper education and a job to go through adulthood and towards death and the afterlife. I suppose the same could be said about those supposedly "underpriveleged" in third world countries. If God came into that situation, then others would be asking, why doesn't God help me?
And for anyone trying to justify their belief in God through some riddle, that's just stupid.

soo....god doesn't feed the starving because the fed would complain that he's not helping them? or he doesn't feed the starving because he would prefer they die rather than become reliant on him for food?

 

[bazookajoe]

I doubt God prefers that people die (but who knows how he works), I just believe he's wary of everybody's reactions if he shows himself and proves that yes, God exists

 

[Not-That-Bright]

There is suffering in this world, and it is quite often the one's who suffer the most who have the most faith.

This has nothing to do with levels of education / a culture of superstition / etc? It's because they just plain suffer alot? I think you'll find the biggest 'skeptic' movement outside of the US is in India.

People who have all they want and 'need' don't have faith, because they think that they can live on material possessions.

Actually I think you'd be quite surprised how many of the RICHEST people are faithful, it's generally people whom are quite wealthy (not the wealthiest however) whom normally have high levels of education that are non-believers. There is a much larger corrolation between education and non-belief than there is of wealth and non-belief - Explaining why it is that almost all of the richest in our society have a belief in God and why for many years before the education was there ALL of the richest were god-believers.

Countries like Australia, USA, and European countries etc have so much money that they exist simply on material wealth and possession.

Now we come to materialism. I think you'd actually find quite the opposite, the majority of atheists (most being individuals of decent education) have more of a propensity towards socialist ideals... whereas we find that the uneducated masses that have a much smaller percentage of non-believers, generally float towards more capitalistic beliefs.

People in countries in Africa, that are considered 3rd world are more content with their lives, in general.

Actually, no they're not. You have no idea what it's like to live in Africa, and this clearly shows it. In Africa there are civil wars constantly, and if they don't kill you - famine will. This is the sort of ignorance that juvenile emo kids feed off, thinking their lives are terrible, even worse than those in africa, because they're enlightened enough to feel the pain.... it's so pathetic.

They have everything they need, and they live their lives trying to get what they need, such as food, water and a place to live.

They do not have ANYTHING which they need and spend their much shorter lives in pain and the sadness of seeing their loved ones die so young.

Here in our wealthy country, we live our lives to get more than the basic necessities. We don't simply want enough food to live or clean water to drink. These things are just a given to us. We want things like the latest MP3 player, or the best mobile phone. Do we really need these useless little fashion accessories??

Argument against materialism, something I think you'll find most churchest embrace to the fullest, along with their adherants - despite their claims to the opposite.

In our business of trying to have the 'best and newest' things, we don't notice the little things. We take our lifestyle for granted. I can guarantee that if anything bad were to happen to our world, such as another great depression or a stock-market collapse, there would be chaos. People don't know what to do with their life without computers, Tvs, telephones, games consoles, heaters, air conditioners-alll these luxuries we live with. You see, the people who don't have these extra luxuries that we have often appreciate life much more. I'm not saying that all of them do, but in general.

You are still arguing against materialism, as if somehow spiritualism is a better option? At least materialists are desiring something which does objectively exist, instead of being promised something that they will never get.

If we were to stop and take a GOOD HARD LONG look at ourselves, I think we would realise how hollow our lives really are.

What is the magical purpose that I would recieve in my life if I started believing in God, or any other supernatural entity? It does nothing to fix the problem what-so-ever. In the meantime, it does not matter that my life is ultimatly a hallow, pointless existance... because I'm a mortal being and I find pleasure in doing mortal things, the pleasure while ultimately pointless is very dear to me - and from my perspective that is all that matters.

On Saturday morning, I had the opportunity to watch the sunrise over the ocean. I have to say that it was THE MOST BEAUTIFUL thing i have ever seen, and it was so humbling. If you have seen the sunrise over the ocean, you will surely agree.

Good for you, you found something you like in this life. I don't know quite what you mean by humbling, but I'm glad you had a good experience. Really tho, you have to understand that some people love to go shopping, and have just as good an experience as you while shopping - your experience is in no way better, you just have a different idea of what's fun.

If you haven't, CHECK IT OUT! For those who have, you couldn't see that awesome event and not have faith in God.

For those who have, you couldn't see that awesome event and not have faith in the devil.

For those who have, you couldn't see that awesome event and not have faith in Superman.

etc,

The statement is meaningless. I've seen the Sun rise, I'm even lucky enough to have a spectacular view of it over rolling hills, every day. What makes it even more amazing for me is that I've read up a bit and I have a bit of an idea of what the universe is like, what a star really is, and it fascinates me somewhat. It doesn't make me want to believe, it just makes me wonder sometimes why with such beautiful, intricate natural forces around you (that we can understand), people need to invent supernatural creatures to make the universe more exciting.

This world is so beautiful, but it's being spoiled so much by all the people in it.

Maybe we should kill them... No but seriously, isn't that what your bible would recommend is an appropriate course of action to deal with these people? Maybe. To me all those people you dislike, the greedy, the selfish etc.... they are the world, they made your religion, they gave birth to you, they gave you your first kiss - they are you. You should learn to accept the failings of your species, and look to what you can do to help, don't rely on some superstitious novel, for in the end it may be wrong, but doing your little part in the world? Either way at least you'll feel you did something right.

what would you do if you had no money to live, and you had to live every day trying to just buy food and clean drinking water???

Be upset? Try to get more food and water?

I don't get the point of this question.

Anyway, if your God really does exist in the form I imagine you think of him as, then all that is is what he desires. He is all powerful, he can change reality whenever he pleases, he even created reality as it is - so what is, is what he desires. So stop complaining about the world, hunger, greed etc and start petitioning to elect a new God, this one's corrupt.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

My opinion on those sceptics who argue "Why does God allow bad things to happen?" is that if God intervened on any situation, then people would become dependent on him.

Well maybe the sceptic's aren't asking for you to explain why God doesn't intervene. As far as I can conceptualise God in the way most christians do, he can't intervene on any situation because the situation is what he desires and that's all it ever could be as he is the master of all reality.

So when people ask 'why does God let bad things happen?' it's more asking for why the situation is the desire of God.

 

[bazookajoe]

I guess I'm not like most Christians then, as I don't believe God controls what people do or don't do.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I guess I'm not like most Christians then, as I don't believe God controls what people do or don't do.

Then God isn't all powerful? See if God is all powerful, or all-knowing even, then it's impossible for people to do anything other than that which God knows/wants, because if they did... well then God wouldn't be all powerful/all-knowing.

No Christian says God controls people, it's just that their conception of God usually leaves no other option.

 

[UnIqUe_PrInCeSs]

I guess I'm not like most Christians then, as I don't believe God controls what people do or don't do.

yeah many (I know I'm generalising here) religious ppl believe that this life is sort of like a 'test', therefore we control what we do and what path we pick, not god.

p.s why are religious ppl and non-religious ppl here trying to convince the other to believe what they believe themselves.(if you get what I mean). Just simply believe what you want to believe, and don't go trying to convince the other that either 'god does exist' or 'god doesn't exist'. Just let it be. Everyone has their own values and beliefs.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Just simply believe what you want to believe, and don't go trying to convince the other that either 'god does exist' or 'god doesn't exist'. Just let it be.

Unfortunately, these beliefs affect our entire world, me and you included, so it's definately something I feel should be argued.

Everyone has their own values and beliefs.

Would you say the same thing to people that dislike nazi's, or racists?

 

[calamity_jane]

how would you prove China exists? pictures can be made as can other texts. If two people come and tell you China exists thats great but what if they're both liars? If heaps of people tell you it exists and few tell you it doesn't then how would you know the liars from the ones telling the truth. Even more if they all honestly believed they were telling he truth. It is the same for religion.

 

[calamity_jane]

the difference between peoples beliefs and nazis etc is whether or not those beliefs hurt other people. In the case of religion it is most often the debate that hurts people and affects our world so much not the lack of debate.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

In the case of religion it is most often the debate that hurts people and affects our world so much not the lack of debate.

Actually I think you'll find throughout history that it's the period's when debate is silenced and religious/superstitious beliefs are allowed to dominate unchallenged when we have REALLY big problems and people REALLY get hurt

how would you prove China exists?

Well in the end it's hard/ maybe impossible for us to know anything for certain, but this doesn't matter. You make the best inductive conclusion you can make given the information you have been given. In the case of China there is a convergence of information from all these people from all these different fields that I am led to believe it is just as likely to exist as I am to exist.

It is the same for religion.

No it's not, that convergence isn't there.

See you're trying to act although 'well nothing is ULTIMATELY provable, therefore all things have equal validity!', however that's not how you live your life. You live it inductively, when you walk out onto the road you do not check to make sure it's not going to collapse, you inductively guess that it's not going to.

 

[ur_inner_child]

the difference between peoples beliefs and nazis etc is whether or not those beliefs hurt other people.

It depends on how you mean if you feel that certain beliefs don't harm people. I know a person that destroys himself for having any homosexual urges because he's become quite religious. Absolutley hates himself. Not because of what it means socially to be homosexual, but what it means religiously.

Or when people place prejudice on those who do not follow certain values. For example, people who choose not to marry, and instead live de facto, have children, stay together. Or when they look lowly of people who have sex before marriage - and become narrowminded, or feel superior to those who do. I mean, even on this site, the amount of threads that insinuate that those who have had sex before marriage don't value their virginity or are somehow are loveless is completely surprising.

Even though I can find some points you could argue on those examples above, the harm is not as large scale as nazi's but I do, however (depending on the person or whatever) feel that religion usually encourages narrow-minded thinking, where morality is black and white, and encourages people to jump at these morals when making a decision, rather than thinking through it critically.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Well in the secular world we belong in, religion is probably not as bad as nazi's... but when the world wasn't so secular? I'd have to disagree. Anyway, my point wasn't to claim that they are equal in terms of damage done, just to point out that people's beliefs NEED to be challenged.

 

[UnIqUe_PrInCeSs]

Anyway, my point wasn't to claim that they are equal in terms of damage done, just to point out that people's beliefs NEED to be challenged.

but why does it need to be challenged to begin with? What do you believe is going to happen once the whole world is convinced that god doesn't exist? Will there finally be peace and harmony in this world?

btw out of curiosity, I wanted to know why you're so concerned about other people's believes?
Note: I'm not trying to insult you or anything.