Does God exist? (4 Viewers)

[Will Shakespear]

i dunno, like

he made the universe
he made the rules
he made us and our predispositions
he made the consequences

seems like it's pretty obvious who's at fault here

 

[rant]

we kill ourselves, we are the ones that commit sin's God does not make us do it.

so god loves us but he's apathetic, omnipotent but not really?

and ALL ATHEISTS ARE SINNERS WITH SUICIDAL TENDENCIES BAD PEOPLE BAD BAD

please don't embarass yourself or your religion with more of this nonsense

 

[Iron]

i will suspend my disbelief for a second and say this: God is our father and he's nowhere to be found. People like me have no objection to accept him and love him, but we require more proof, more care than spontaneous believers. The arguments that we are not open to him or that we have to find him or we must take advantage of our free will are bullshit.

Good parents take care of their children. If a child can't find his parents because he's half blind they won't tell him to look harder. They will tell him "over here!"

In a nutshell, if God is sad that I'm an atheist and loves me as much as Christians say he does, why isn't he ringing my dorrbell right now?

Because it'd be really really easy for him to make me believe you know, if he just came down to Earth and popped over to my house, offered me brownies and then talked to me about various interesting things I've always wanted to know, showed me cool stuff and was a generally cool dude, I would certainly love him.

If he explained to me exactly why heaven and hell exist and what the criteria are and if he listened to my objections in a way that made me feel like he cared about my opinion, I would love him even more. But as it stands, God is nowhere to be seen and nowhere to be heard.

Some of his followers tell me that I will go to hell, which I hear is a terrible place. Oh, and I deserve it. Whatever am I supposed to do?

The proof is in the pudding. He is the apex of all Truth, the summit of all love, all good and beauty. He is the Law behind all Laws, he is there for all who seek. Call it bullshit, but whatever mang.

He has spoken to you through the prophets and saints for thousands of years! This is the word of your Lord!

Essentially the choice is yours. The onus is on you to make the moral choice to believe in Him. As it stands, the absence of evidence is at a perfect balance to distinguish the true believers, the genuinely faithful, from the self-interested opportunists. You must make some leap of faith to bridge the gap between you and your creator. This proves your selfless love, as opposed to your selfish self-preservation!

 

[Tangent]

you believe in a book written by humans....

 

[rant]

but everything is according to God's plan! wouldn't he already distinguished the saints from the sinners? wouldn't he already know who's capable of bridging the gap? wouldn't he know who's capable of selfless love?

 

[love.is.around]

we kill ourselves, we are the ones that commit sin's God does not make us do it.

I agree with you.

 

[Iron]

but everything is according to God's plan! wouldn't he already distinguished the saints from the sinners? wouldn't he already know who's capable of bridging the gap, of selfless love?

We are all inherently capable. The issue is whether we have the will to defeat our unique temptations or not. Sure it's a mystery as to whether God knows whether we will prevail or not in advance of our conception - sure! This is logically difficult - absolutely! But it is insufficient reason to not strive to live in accordance with the word, with Christ's example every day and always - advancing towards our own recovery!

 

[love.is.around]

That's why everyone thinks you're an idiot.

Not emytaylor164

 

[rant]

We are all inherently capable. The issue is whether we have the will to defeat our unique temptations or not. Sure it's a mystery as to whether God knows whether we will prevail or not in advance of our conception - sure! This is logically difficult - absolutely! But it is insufficient reason to not strive to live in accordance with the word, with Christ's example every day and always - advancing towards our own recovery!

i think if something is logically difficult and has an improbable future or devising then it is something one should probably dismiss~~ seems to me what you're saying is humans at large are guinea pigs in god's infinite experiment, where only he knows the answer but prefers to keep us guessing - I certainly can't accept this

ALAS, however, your faith is unshakeable and i fear neither of us will give in

i can only hope that more emylogictaylors to stray within my atheist clutches

 

[Duffman0]

In what will be a direct adress to the original question, ignoring all the flame wars, logical reasonings, statements of faith that will continue indefinitely until the end of time -

"Cogito Ergo Sum".

I didn't bother to read the 500 odd pages that lead to me writing this. I think, therefore I am. In Calvino's words, I think, therefore it writes.

I think that's a brilliant statement. The fact that I think something exists means it does. Even if it only exists in my thoughts, or as a hope.

Does God exist? To me, sure he/she/it does. But that's just my beleif.
To state that God exists for everyone - well, you'd have to define God. You go ahead and do that, and then notice how everyone's definition is slightly different. You'll find Catholic versions of him, mormon versions, muslim versions, hindu versions(s), people who believe he/she/it's imaginary!

That doesn't take away from the fact that by these definitions, God must exist - in imagination or in canon, God exists as imaginary or canonical.

Well, what the hell does that matter? It doesn't! If you don't believe in God, that's just fine. If you believe in God but see no purpose with the concept of it, that's also awesome. If you believe all that other stuff religions preach about God, top stuff.

I gave up on religions because faith is what matters. Call it illogical, a fallacy, idiocy - I don't care! Lots of people don't. The fact that I believe there is something divine that exists is my belief. If Catholics, muslims, satanists, buddhists don't like my belief, that's just fucking awesome. I believe in God, but I don't know anything about him/her/it. Doesn't stop me from wanting to know, doesn't mean that i'll be answered, doesn't mean he's an actual thing. But regardless of whether he is present within reality or exists are two different arguements.

I don't want anyone to reply to this post on the thread - if you've got something you'd like to discuss on what i've said, just PM me.

Sincerely,

-Duffman.

 

[Iron]

i think if something is logically difficult and has an improbable future or devising then it is something one should probably dismiss~~ seems to me what you're saying is humans at large are guinea pigs in god's infinite experiment, where only he knows the answer but prefers to keep us guessing - I certainly can't accept this

ALAS, however, your faith is unshakeable and i fear neither of us will give in

You can accept truth, goodness and beauty, you must accept it, and,
when i'm president,
you will
thankyou and god bless

/McCain


There is much mystery involved, to be sure. The way is not clear; I accept this. But our limited understanding of the plan is no reason to reject the plan in it's entirety - indeed, my belief is that it is intentionally hidden so as to root out those who love only their selves and nothing beyond.

I also cant accept the label 'guinea pigs'. There's a guy called Satan, he's a little mysterious himself, but he seems to impose some limitations on God's power on earth, as he initially tempted us away from Him.
But I want to say to all the devils and terrorists that humanity cannot be broken; you cannot outlast us, and we will defeat you.

god bless

 

[Tangent]

the fatal flaw, which i have been trying to say tonight but just havent been able to put it into words, is that the bible must have ultimately been written by humans. Really, the people who wrote this have ultimate power over what people think and believe, their customs and traditions,etc, etc which leads to the control of THEIR LIFE. (depends how religious you are)

 

[rant]

you must spread some reputation around before giving it to Iron again

does this happen often?

 

[Tangent]

But I want to say to all the devils and terrorists that humanity cannot be broken; you cannot outlast us, and we will defeat you.

id like to point out that the only difference between a freedom fighter and a terrorist is point of view. they probably think their enemies are all being influenced by the devil aswell

 

[Iron]

you must spread some reputation around before giving it to Iron again

does this happen often?

Never baby, I swear it!
/zip up

 

[Tangent]

you must spread some reputation around before giving it to Iron again

does this happen often?

my point is that it is humans that wrote the bible, therefore isnt perfect

 

[greekgun]

id like to point out that the only difference between a freedom fighter and a terrorist is point of view. they probably think their enemies are all being influenced by the devil aswell

except that there are more muslim "freedom fighter" damaging shit by blowing things up and threatening people and people ways of life than most other religions.

 

[Tangent]

yeah, because that is the only way they think they can get their messages heard

note: i dont support terrorists

 

[rant]

my point is that it is humans that wrote the bible, therefore isnt perfect

to go off on a Tangent (hohoho)

i agree with you completely, but would substitute 'not perfect' with 'fabricated'. of course this doesnt hold with those of the christian ilk because the bible, to them, would be the words of God himself transcribed by those worthy of hearing him~



P.S. FUCK ALL WAHHABISTS AND ISLAMOFASCISTS

 

[greekgun]

yeah, because that is the only way they think they can get their messages heard

note: i dont support terrorists

fuck their message. u see thats wat pisses me off with muslims (and some other religions too). They preach way too much, and want to spread their message around and work too hard for it that they dont mind sacrafising random innicent people for their cause. They should keep to themselves.