Does God exist? (8 Viewers)

[buriza]

not 100% correct either

he uses the phrase multiple times, one of them with reference to the notion that in the future, morality will be defined less by religion and more by the "ubermensch", who isn't necessarily maladaptive or nihilistic

Yeah, that's why I said "potentially" lol.

 

[teridax]

not 100% correct either

he uses the phrase multiple times, one of them with reference to the notion that in the future, morality will be defined less by religion and more by the "ubermensch", who isn't necessarily maladaptive or nihilistic

really? doesn't the god is dead theory allude to society descending into chaos because of nietzche's belief that the absence of religion incites a lack of moral authority

how does the ubermensch have to do with that

nah

so what's your justification

 

[Squar3root]

nah

 

[leshasha]

One good question to get some thoughts ticking over:
Look at your bedroom wall.
Did a builder build that wall?
Can you see the builder?
Because you can't see the builder is this an argument for his/her non-existence? Of course not
Now look at all of creation. Whether you believe in evolution or otherwise. How could nothing have created everything. Even that first atom that started the Big Bang, if that's what you believe.
Surely this is compelling reasoning and logic for a creator God.
God Bless

 

[AAEldar]

One good question to get some thoughts ticking over:
Look at your bedroom wall.
Did a builder build that wall?
Can you see the builder?
Because you can't see the builder is this an argument for his/her non-existence? Of course not
Now look at all of creation. Whether you believe in evolution or otherwise. How could nothing have created everything. Even that first atom that started the Big Bang, if that's what you believe.
Surely this is compelling reasoning and logic for a creator God.
God Bless

Something from nothing fails to explain the existence of a God, or the lack of.

 

[jdennis]

One good question to get some thoughts ticking over:
Look at your bedroom wall.
Did a builder build that wall?
Can you see the builder?
Because you can't see the builder is this an argument for his/her non-existence? Of course not
Now look at all of creation. Whether you believe in evolution or otherwise. How could nothing have created everything. Even that first atom that started the Big Bang, if that's what you believe.
Surely this is compelling reasoning and logic for a creator God.
God Bless

If you believe in God you need to prove that such a God created the universe. Asking others to prove that's not the case means nothing.

 

[RashySwagVII]

One of my old friends in Maths last year is very homophobic. I asked him why and he said because its just not right. I then furthered questioned him by asking ''Why is it not right?'' And he responded with because God says its not right. Although God punishes the people who do wrong doing against him, being gay, I believe, isnt a wrong doing against him. this is what got me off the whole Christianity wagon. If we are created in Gods image, then I dont want to be.

 

[wannaspoon]

 

[leshasha]

Something from nothing fails to explain the existence of a God, or the lack of.

Sorry, that is true that it's a bit confusing.
Perhaps a helpful way to mull over your statement is that the very nature of God is that He is the omniscient and eternal Creator.
I found this quote useful:
When I’m teaching children, I like to explain it this way. There was no “before” God created. There was not even “nothing”! There was God existing in eternity.
I don't think we can understand this as humans, but humbly ask for enlightenment from God as the Spirit.

An article below articulates my thoughts more cohesively:

https://answersingenesis.org/answer...-god-live/what-was-god-doing-before-creation/

 

[jdennis]

Sorry, that is true that it's a bit confusing.
Perhaps a helpful way to mull over your statement is that the very nature of God is that He is the omniscient and eternal Creator.

The problem with this is that you haven't actually provided any evidence for why God is the "omniscient and eternal Creator", you've just said that he is.

I don't think we can understand this as humans, but humbly ask for enlightenment from God as the Spirit.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/personal-incredulity

 

[AAEldar]

Sorry, that is true that it's a bit confusing.
Perhaps a helpful way to mull over your statement is that the very nature of God is that He is the omniscient and eternal Creator.
I found this quote useful:
When I’m teaching children, I like to explain it this way. There was no “before” God created. There was not even “nothing”! There was God existing in eternity.
I don't think we can understand this as humans, but humbly ask for enlightenment from God as the Spirit.

An article below articulates my thoughts more cohesively:

https://answersingenesis.org/answer...-god-live/what-was-god-doing-before-creation/

But replace God with a universe that always was and I fail to see the difference except that you believe in one thing and I believe in another.

At the end of the day it comes down to faith and belief. Do I believe a God exists? No. Am I open to the possibility that a God exists? Sure! I have never been able to look at the universe and say "This must have been by design" and feel like there must be a higher being.

I respect your belief, but not the argument you're bringing. It reveals nothing about either sides.

 

[teridax]

The problem with this is that you haven't actually provided any evidence for why God is the "omniscient and eternal Creator", you've just said that he is.

Just curious, are you, like AAElder open to the possibility that God exists?

 

[Sy123]

The Universe cannot be the ultimate existent as it is a contingent existent, it is a contingent existent because the laws of that govern the Universe and the way the Universe operates is in no way true by necessity. If the Universe was necessary then everything about the Universe would be necessary, but we know this not to be true.

So that is the difference between God and the Universe, the Universe is a contingent being and God is a Necessary being

 

[dan964]

Ex Nihilo.

The strongest evidence of the existence of God or something like that, is the beginning of creation: created from nothing. That all matter came from nothing and then to say that all creation was therefore a fluke, (I say good luck with that), and you look at the complexity of the creation just presents itself with many unresolved problems. Gravity cannot have created the universe, because outside the universe, gravity did not exist. The universe could not have caused itself to exist, because it did not exist prior. For this reason, a multiverse is then suggested, to which I say, you just extend the problem further.

Unless the Second Law of Thermodynamics is false, 'order cannot come out of chaos'


Side note: A lot of people are drawn to religions such as Christianity through relationships. When you love someone one, is it just temporal in the sense that you're brain's instinct is pumping certain chemicals to produce certain emotions. Or what about when you feel guilty, is it again because of evolutionary behaviours? Are we reducing the good things and bad things we do to chance, or even the fate of the universe?

I have mentioned this I think before. Is the real reason you don't believe God exists, is you don't want to be held accountable to him?

 

[turntaker]

We call god something we don't understand. and I am sure that type of god does exist. We can never explain everything about he universe.

Something happened for the universe to be created. Nothing happens randomly.

 

[jdennis]

Just curious, are you, like AAElder open to the possibility that God exists?

Yes.

The strongest evidence of the existence of God or something like that, is the beginning of creation: created from nothing. That all matter came from nothing and then to say that all creation was therefore a fluke, (I say good luck with that), and you look at the complexity of the creation just presents itself with many unresolved problems. Gravity cannot have created the universe, because outside the universe, gravity did not exist. The universe could not have caused itself to exist, because it did not exist prior. For this reason, a multiverse is then suggested, to which I say, you just extend the problem further.

Ok - now tell me where God came from.

When you love someone one, is it just temporal in the sense that you're brain's instinct is pumping certain chemicals to produce certain emotions. Or what about when you feel guilty, is it again because of evolutionary behaviours?

Yes. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it not true.

I have mentioned this I think before. Is the real reason you don't believe God exists, is you don't want to be held accountable to him?

No.

 

[Sy123]

Ok - now tell me where God came from.

God does not have a cause since, God, being the most perfect of all beings is uncaused and Necessary in existence. Therefore, an argument for God's existence is to argue for an uncaused being, to ask then "what caused this uncaused being" doesn't make sense, misses the point of the argument and is in general a terrible objection.

The Universe must be caused on the other hand as the Universe is but contingent being, therefore there must be a cause for it to give preponderance to the existence of the Universe over its non-existence.

 

[jdennis]

God does not have a cause since, God, being the most perfect of all beings is uncaused and Necessary in existence. Therefore, an argument for God's existence is to argue for an uncaused being, to ask then "what caused this uncaused being" doesn't make sense, misses the point of the argument and is in general a terrible objection.

The Universe must be caused on the other hand as the Universe is but contingent being, therefore there must be a cause for it to give preponderance to the existence of the Universe over its non-existence.

Why is God necessary in existence? And why is the universe contingent?

 

[Kiraken]

God does not have a cause since, God, being the most perfect of all beings is uncaused and Necessary in existence. Therefore, an argument for God's existence is to argue for an uncaused being, to ask then "what caused this uncaused being" doesn't make sense, misses the point of the argument and is in general a terrible objection.

The Universe must be caused on the other hand as the Universe is but contingent being, therefore there must be a cause for it to give preponderance to the existence of the Universe over its non-existence.

Yes but that's attaching a definition to something to prove it.

You're defining God as a being that is uncaused and then saying therefore God doesn't need a cause. Now if someone was to come up with a term such as XYZ and then defined it in such a manner, or if someone defined the Universe or the Big Bang in such a manner, then the same logic would apply.

It's not a proof per se, it's pre-supposing something exists, defining it in a way and then saying therefore it exists.

 

[Kiraken]

However, Sy raises an important point, and that is the definition of God. God, being by definition an omnipotent being, is therefore not bound by any laws or rules, and is not constrained by logic or science. Simply put, it is impossible to "disprove" God's existence simply because a truly omnipotent being by definition can defy logic.

Therefore the debate is essentially about whether or not logic and science are limited. If they are, then it follows that there must be concepts beyond logic and science in which case the existence of God becomes a far more obvious notion. If however, science and logic are shown to have no clear limits then the question arises as to whether or not a concept beyond logic and science such as God is "necessary".

Arguments around causality have little credence simply because by definition the concept of cause is reliant on time. Cause is essentially about something performing an action that results in something, i.e. it's dependent on some notion of time. Since the universe by definition is all of space and time, then it started at t=0. The question of whether or not something caused it becomes moot simply because you can't cause something if time didn't exist, nor does the notion of a cause exist when time doesn't exist.

Furthermore, even if you took the argument that the universe was caused by some form of intelligent design, then what guarantees that such an intelligent design is necessary now or still active? As such any argument that logic and science is limited needs to be based on what is happening now too, why is the notion of God necessary *now*? Are science and logic limited now?