Does God exist? (15 Viewers)

[littlewing69]

proverbs31girl:

As an aside, why Proverbs 31? It's an interesting choice of chapter; distinct from all the commonly used ones like John 3:16, Psalm 29 etc which people love to have as pseudonyms and personal mottos..

 

[c_james]

cool it dosnt matter to me hey, my point was that you wouldnt know the truth because you dont belong to a church and experience it.

Institutionalised religion is the worst human invention to date.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

and saw the lady i saw in a weelchair and left WALKING her wheelchair out! o

Err... ya... You do know it's common practice for alot of these 'churches' to tell people whom don't need wheel chairs to get in one, they tell them it'll help the minister pick them for 'healing'. They don't own a wheel chair -- but of course the poor, the desperate and the gullible never bother to come to such conclusions or do any investigations for themselves (all you need is google)... they just believe.

 

[littlewing69]

Institutionalised religion is the worst human invention to date.

Blogging would have to be up there.

 

[proverbs31girl]

What god? Young people reveal their secular side
6 August, 2006 - SMH

FEWER than half of Australia's young people believe in a god and many believe there is little truth in religion, a new study has found.

The three-year national study, a joint project between Monash University, the Australian Catholic University and the Christian Research Association, found many young people followed a secular, rather than a religious path.

The study, The Spirit of Generation Y, found just 48 per cent of Generation Y, defined as those being born between 1976 and 1990, believed in a god.

Andrew Singleton, from Monash University, a co-author of the study, said they were surprised by the findings. [...]

The survey, of 1619 people, found 20 per cent did not believe in a god and 32 per cent were unsure.

Meanwhile, 31 per cent of Generation Y were classified as humanists, rejecting the idea of a god, although some believed in a higher being.

Dr Singleton said that by comparison, baby boomers now had higher levels of regular churchgoers and believers in a god. Instead, those in Generation Y had more in common with their Generation X counterparts - those born between 1961 and 1975.

He said the trend away from organised religion was likely to continue. "We live in a very individualistic society and I don't see a lot of things challenging that," he said.

"One of the many predictors of whether we become religious is our parents and unless there is a massive cultural shift, the trajectory will continue," Dr Singleton said.

The researchers said many young Australians were humanists, rejecting belief in a god for a belief in experience and reason.

Anglican Bishop of South Sydney, Robert Forsyth, said the results were expected.

"This is the first generation who probably know nothing about Christ, except those who go to Christian schools," he said. "It is sad, but in my view, it is entirely what we expected to happen." [...]

ok so you point was that most people dont believe in GOD and only ussually are religious because of their parents etc., i can deffinately agree with you on that that,.. most people dont,.... but my main argument is that,.... most people hav'nt experienced GOD, and is usually becuase they dont seek HIm or some drama in life has happend and blame GOD,.. those are just a couple of examples. And if you havnt experienced, how can people know there is a GOD? may i share my story of how i became a christian? (im going to whether you like it or not.) i myself grew up in an average household, no religon in my family, didnt go to a christian skool, on knew of GOd being some guys dying on a cross, and without influence from friends family etc. i go to church, and experience GOD in my life... and i am still attending today without any of my family being christains. think im just a random, that goes to church, i know many of my friends, with the same story. data dosnt mean anything.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

most people hav'nt experienced GOD

I put it to you that no one has, those that claim to have 'experienced god' are often deluded and their experiences can be explained away by 10,000 more rational/likely explanations than that 'god did it'.

or some drama in life has happend and blame GOD

Not at all, common misconception. Noone comes to being atheist because they 'hate' god - they don't believe in that god TO hate it.

how can people know there is a GOD?

Even if you have experienced something, you still do not KNOW there is a God.

i myself grew up in an average household, no religon in my family, didnt go to a christian skool, on knew of GOd being some guys dying on a cross, and without influence from friends family etc

I find it almost ridiculous that you're trying to tell me that there was so little christian influence in your life as you grew up, in australia.

 

[proverbs31girl]

Nope, I don't know about your suicidal tendencies, but I do know that whatever 'saved' you wasn't God. It was probably your blind belief in what you perceive to be your God. You didn't experience crap. By your logic, I can just as validly say this: I was going to kill myself, but then I experienced the devil, and all was well. Of what authority am I to tell you that you haven't experienced God? I'm not an authority, but reason sure is. As for the lady walking out of the wheelchair - not everyone who uses a wheelchair is permanently incapacitated.

hey im pretty sure you did not get my point at all, your telling me again i didnt experience anything. but again you wouldnt know, because your not me.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

most people hav'nt experienced GOD, and is usually becuase they dont seek HIm or some drama in life has happend and blame GOD,..

lol wouldn't blaming God for life's dramas entail believing that God exists?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

hey im pretty sure you did not get my point at all, your telling me again i didnt experience anything. but again you wouldnt know, because your not me.

We tell people they're not jesus every day, what's the difference? If you're going to make such an extraordinary claim as 'I experienced God' then you're going to need more proof than 'I really did experience it'. Personally I find it quite ironic that if a person says leprechauns have talked to them, they're nuts, but if they say god/the spirits etc talked to them, they're not.

 

[ur_inner_child]

I personally fell out of Christianity when I realised the silly little stories about angels, virgin births, resurrections, God caring when you have sex and what gender you love, apocolypse, flying horsemen, trumpeting angels, water into wine, heaven, hell, satan, every possible contradiction or illogical fact is pointed to "God is beyond logic".... were just silly.

I find all that stuff just a tad too romanticised, fantastic and unbelievable. I look at this the same way as I look at Santa Claus - reindeer, elves, workshop in the north pole, factory... beyond logical time "Oh Santa is magical he can reach everyone in 12 hours".... "I know in my heart Santa Claus exists!"

Stand back and look - its pretty out there stuff.

And you know all of it is true how?

 

[ur_inner_child]

hey im pretty sure you did not get my point at all, your telling me again i didnt experience anything. but again you wouldnt know, because your not me.

you're referring to something really abstract I'm assuming, if you experienced something. I'm guessing like a miracle/epiphany/wonderful feeling out of believing in God?

What is it that you experienced?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Well... for me... one night it hit me like a rock, out of the blue (as far as I can remember) while I was watching TV. It was the idea that maybe heaven, etc was all a lie. I can remember for weeks actually being quite scared/worried/etc when faced with my own mortality. I never bought in to alot of 'bogus' claims, but i'd kind of just been apathetic to the whole concept of death/god etc before that moment.

I did some more reading up on the issue, honestly approaching it from both sides, in the end... I'm an atheist.

 

[proverbs31girl]

proverbs31girl:

As an aside, why Proverbs 31? It's an interesting choice of chapter; distinct from all the commonly used ones like John 3:16, Psalm 29 etc which people love to have as pseudonyms and personal mottos..

have you read it? its about women, its beautiful. it discribes a noble women of great character.

 

[littlewing69]

have you read it? its about women, its beautiful. it discribes a noble women of great character.

Not until I saw your name. And I have a stack of various religious books next to my monitor, so I had a look. Interesting choice.

 

[proverbs31girl]

Err... ya... You do know it's common practice for alot of these 'churches' to tell people whom don't need wheel chairs to get in one, they tell them it'll help the minister pick them for 'healing'. They don't own a wheel chair -- but of course the poor, the desperate and the gullible never bother to come to such conclusions or do any investigations for themselves (all you need is google)... they just believe.

hey its just one example, its not the only thing that have seen in my life. what you picture a christians life to be, is completely wrong.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

hey its just one example, its not the only thing that have seen in my life.

Offer them up then?

what you picture a christians life to be, is completely wrong.

I was baptised a catholic into a fairly secular catholic household.
I went to a christian school for most of my highschool years.
Most of my friends are christians.
I've been to church many times.

I know a bit about christians and have somewhat experienced the 'christian life'. You don't know what I picture the 'christian life' to be, so I don't know why you're saying it's 'completely wrong'.

 

[c_james]

I'll also just mention at this point that I attended a Catholic school and was raised in a Catholic family. Don't assume non-believers don't know what they're on about, because in all likelihood they know far more than believers - and no, I'm not talking about the ability to memorise a couple of proverbs. Many of them have looked at religion objectively and without the taint of bias. They're very familiar with religious teachings and actively choose to reject them, not out of ignorance that is a by-product of ill-education, but more out of a recognition of their necessary ignorance with regard to matters concerning the existence of God.

 

[proverbs31girl]

you're referring to something really abstract I'm assuming, if you experienced something. I'm guessing like a miracle/epiphany/wonderful feeling out of believing in God?

What is it that you experienced?

to tell you wat i have experienced would take about 2 years, you cant give wat you have felt or seen,.. do you want more examples of things that have happened? so that you can think of a reason to make it sound normal or just too wacked out to believe. if i do that i will be wasting my time,.. ive said my point enough. you and other people can never experience what I personally have experienced, nor can i experience what you have. ill leave it there.

 

[c_james]

hey im pretty sure you did not get my point at all, your telling me again i didnt experience anything. but again you wouldnt know, because your not me.

This is the most trivial line of argument I've ever seen pursued. Theoretically, you could counter anything we throw at you by saying "but you're not me" in your childish fashion. Realise I don't have to be you to relate to your experiences. Am I not human also? Why would God see fit to make you, and not me or anyone else in this thread, experience him? By this logic I'll just say that you're not an agnostic, so you wouldn't know what we know. It doesn't make much sense, does it? Try putting forward a sound argument next time. I know it's hard for you faith-ridden religious types, but do try.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I hope you do realise that many people have many experiences that they attribute to supernatural things. As I'm sure some of them you would consider crazy, why do you think it's wrong of us to not put you in the same bag as them?