Does God exist? (4 Viewers)

do you believe in god?


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proverbs31girl

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littlewing69 said:
Not until I saw your name. And I have a stack of various religious books next to my monitor, so I had a look. Interesting choice.

thanx, and even tho we have had disagreements, if anything you and everyone else, have helped make my faith stronger. you sound like an awesome person, with good morals. Im out, coz ive finsihed arguing and for the record GOD bless.
 

c_james

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proverbs31girl said:
thanx, and even tho we have had disagreements, if anything you and everyone else, have helped make my faith stronger. you sound like an awesome person, with good morals. Im out, coz ive finsihed arguing and for the record GOD bless.
Why is it that whenever we corner them intellectually, they scamper off? :\
 

proverbs31girl

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c_james said:
Why is it that whenever we corner them intellectually, they scamper off? :\

hey look ive made my point, you choose not to accept it whateva hey. all i said was i believe in GOd from what ive experienced. you dont believe in GOd from what you have or havnt experienced. GO on i give you more permission to abuse me. does it make you feel good. GOD bless, yer.
 

c_james

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proverbs31girl said:
hey look ive made my point, you choose not to accept it whateva hey. all i said was i believe in GOd from what ive experienced. you dont believe in GOd from what you have or havnt experienced. GO on i give you more permission to abuse me. does it make you feel good. GOD bless, yer.
I don't think you'll find I've directed a word of abuse your way, actually.
 

Not-That-Bright

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hey look ive made my point, you choose not to accept it whateva hey. all i said was i believe in GOd from what ive experienced. you dont believe in GOd from what you have or havnt experienced. GO on i give you more permission to abuse me. does it make you feel good. GOD bless, yer.
This is a thread in the NCAP forum, generally it's full of alot of high-tension debates and surely you must have seen this before you began posting in the thread?
 

KeypadSDM

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If you could prove God exists, then we would all believe it anyway.

Life is independant of knowing whether God exists, as you're defined by your actions not your thoughts. If you don't believe in God but believe your actions are legitimate and fair, then you're the same person that you would be should you believe in God but act the same way. Hence question irrelevant.
 
L

littlewing69

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proverbs31girl said:
thanx, and even tho we have had disagreements, if anything you and everyone else, have helped make my faith stronger. you sound like an awesome person, with good morals. Im out, coz ive finsihed arguing and for the record GOD bless.

God bless.
 
L

littlewing69

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KeypadSDM said:
If you could prove God exists, then we would all believe it anyway.
This is why I don't think God, if there indeed is one, wishes for us to "believe in him" as a passage to some afterlife reward. As the old argument goes; if God is omniscient, omnibenevolent and omnipotent, he would know that people are going to hell, be struck with compassion, and use his unlimited powers to make us skeptics believe in him without reserve.

Obviously, that doesn't occur in real life.

EDIT: Holy double negatives batman! Cleared that up...
 
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MoonlightSonata

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ur_inner_child said:
I personally fell out of Christianity when I realised the silly little stories about angels, virgin births, resurrections, God caring when you have sex and what gender you love, apocolypse, flying horsemen, trumpeting angels, water into wine, heaven, hell, satan, every possible contradiction or illogical fact is pointed to "God is beyond logic".... were just silly.
I think people are too hard on those stories. Personally I think they make great literature. There is evidence of a real imagination behind some of them!
littlewing69 said:
This is why I don't think God, if there indeed is one, doesn't wish for us to "believe in him" as a passage to some afterlife reward. As the old argument goes; if God is omniscient, omnibenevolent and omnipotent, he would know that people are going to hell, be struck with compassion, and use his unlimited powers to make us skeptics believe in him without reserve.

Obviously, that doesn't occur in real life.
Use his unlimited powers to make skeptics believe in him? Why doesn't he just show himself? If anything he should be praising the skeptics for using their "God-given" intelligence to think critically. Moreover, if God is all powerful and he creates beings pre-determined to pursue a particular path, it would be nonsensical to blame them for following it.
 

sam04u

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I never scampered off you ass-hat. I still adamantly hold my belief that a god created the universe and i shared my beliefs and my understanding of the creation of the universe through physics to explain it. I also said that my religion is Islam and have proved to a certain extent that there are no 'scientific contradictions in the religion. ' NTB pointed out a verse where it said 'God created the world in 7 Days', which seemed to be a contradiction, then I pulled out a verse which read 'A day to God can be 'like' 50,000 days to you'.

Now we've sort of come to an agreement that an entity created the universe, he believes he has after not been involved with the universe, and I argue that he has since 'created' religion.

So.. Yeah... Either way neither side have 'convincing' arguments all of them are either faith or anti faith and neither side can prove or disprove them. I've tried atleast...

-End
 

Not-That-Bright

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I also said that my religion is Islam and have proved to a certain extent that there are no 'scientific contradictions in the religion. 'NTB pointed out a verse where it said 'God created the world in 7 Days', which seemed to be a contradiction, then I pulled out a verse which read 'A day to God can be 'like' 50,000 days to you'.
I also then pointed out how alot of what you do is come up with wild confabulations to support your idea that are seemingly almost baseless. Not just the 7 days thing, but alot of other things.

Now we've sort of come to an agreement that an entity created the universe
I've always agreed that there was probably some sort of natural process that created the universe... the universe didn't just pop out of thin air and even if it did, that is a natural process.

he believes he has after not been involved with the universe
Actually I don't even think it's conscious, perhaps it is still 'involved with the universe' as the natural processes we see around us. I don't want you to think of me as a non-interventionist theist (tho I must say their arguments hold alot more sway with me), I am an atheist as far as I think it is fair to call yourself one.

Either way neither side have 'convincing' arguments all of them are either faith or anti faith and neither side can prove or disprove them
I don't need to disprove god to come to the conclusion that there is no God any more than you need to disprove santa claus to come to the conclusion there is no Santa.

I think people are too hard on those stories. Personally I think they make great literature. There is evidence of a real imagination behind some of them!
Not original enough IMO and there's no new angle to make it any better or amazing stylistic device employed.
 
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c_james

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sam04u said:
I never scampered off you ass-hat. I still adamantly hold my belief that a god created the universe and i shared my beliefs and my understanding of the creation of the universe through physics to explain it. I also said that my religion is Islam and have proved to a certain extent that there are no 'scientific contradictions in the religion. ' NTB pointed out a verse where it said 'God created the world in 7 Days', which seemed to be a contradiction, then I pulled out a verse which read 'A day to God can be 'like' 50,000 days to you'.

Now we've sort of come to an agreement that an entity created the universe, he believes he has after not been involved with the universe, and I argue that he has since 'created' religion.

So.. Yeah... Either way neither side have 'convincing' arguments all of them are either faith or anti faith and neither side can prove or disprove them. I've tried atleast...

-End
I wasn't referring to you. I didn't actually consider your arguments (if you can call them that) worthy of a response.
 

sam04u

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Lol... I guess 'Karl' is supposed to represent prophets/deciples and messengers right? Well, explain things which people couldn't have known at the time of particular religion being know. I think I provided links and evidence to where the Koran provided a pretty thorough explanation of embryology and the life/stages of early embryo's. (Which would have been impossible to predict, and couldn't be proven without light telescopes. ) Also, the lack of contradictions? Yeah well....??

On the Idea that the first law, the definition of the Law of Energy, it couldn't be a 'natural' process. Since there would be no 'natural', nothing existed and that's why it couldn't occur in such a way. (it may be difficult for you to fathom a world with different physical laws then ours or none at all .)

Everything we know about physics and physical properties is attributed to the physical laws which 'govern' our universe and all but the first can be explained. Even in a 'law-less', the first law which is the law of energy could not be determined by anything naturally because there is no nature. Let's say the first law was 'The Law of xxx'. Where xxx is a negative convulsion which is undefinable by human physics. In order for the xxx to be maintained it would need sub-laws to keep it animate, and in a lawless universe having a law leaves room for spontaneous laws to 'protect' the first law, but never to create law since their would be no 'way'. Anyways, xxx cannot negatively convulse because of the other xxx in the viscinity it cannot pulsate whille the other xxx is there. So each time it pulsates it transfers negativity (opposite to gravity) outwards, pushing away the other xxx and protecting itself. (It would not have life in this universe as all the matter would RAPIDLY begin to seperate and pulsate untill all the xxx is used up. And then the xxx would continually just 'detract' other xxx. It would never change to other matter because it wouldn't be stressed again. But when all the negative (whcih you wont be able to fathom) convulsions and re-traction is gone, it would turn into positive (something similar to what we know today. In which case it would all quickly (clash together) which would test it since they cannot pulsate in the viscinity of each other, it could then transfer all of its 'bearing' to the pulsating xxx and the other xxx would be apart of it. Then all the xxx's would all join together in a blob turning from positive to negative and negative to positive over and over again. Never being tested again.

This is an example of the first law xxx, ours however is energy and because of it every other law exists. I wouldn't say that there isn't millions of universes all with 'different' laws but NONE of them could exist without someone first 'defining' the first law. (Anyone could tell you the laws of energy, such as it cannot be lost, it's self maintaining, it can be transfered to matter and whatever else. )

My opinion is there is a god and I've dedicated a third of my life to disproving it. It's sorta 'uneasy' for me to accept an entity with so much power being on earth and executed (so that rules out christianity for me), so I'm left with Judaism and Islam. I follow Islam and I believe that the religion has alot of good to be reaped from it. But, even my arguments are some what contradictory, because If I wrote all of my thoughts in a religious book and claimed I met god people would definately say 'hey, look how accurately he described things which we would have never known without a "Light Vision Acceleration Ray" bahaha'.

Either way, In my books Islam is right... I have the science to prove god exists and unlike some religions Islam challenges people to test it and to indulge in the gifts that god gave us... Intelligence... All Islam asks is that when they day comes to you (The Last Day) that you acknowledge the Koran and you will be taken to a path of light.

-End
 

gerhard

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Well, explain things which people couldn't have known at the time of particular religion being know. I think I provided links and evidence to where the Koran provided a pretty thorough explanation of embryology and the life/stages of early embryo's. (Which would have been impossible to predict, and couldn't be proven without light telescopes. ) Also, the lack of contradictions? Yeah well....??
Ive gone through this like four times. Do you want me to do it again? The embryology was already known, it was mainly taken from Galen who is a famous ancient physician. muslim scholars were the first to point this out.
 

sam04u

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Provide links buddy. (talk is cheap) I've never heard of it in the mean time hear this;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kf_1JjH-C0&NR

OMFG RELIGION IS EVIL... LOOK THEY CARE ABOUT THE PROBLEMS IN THE WORLD... THAT EVIL RELIGION WHICH TRICKS US TO BE NICE...
 
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Not-That-Bright

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Lol... I guess 'Karl' is supposed to represent prophets/deciples and messengers right? Well, explain things which people couldn't have known at the time of particular religion being know. I think I provided links and evidence to where the Koran provided a pretty thorough explanation of embryology and the life/stages of early embryo's. (Which would have been impossible to predict, and couldn't be proven without light telescopes. ) Also, the lack of contradictions? Yeah well....??
http://www.secularislam.org/guide/embryology.htm

As i've explained 1000000000 times before to you tho, what you need is evidence that someone looked in the koran, formed a new hypothesis based off the koran, then that ended up being accurate to prove any predictive power. Anything stated after the fact will be laughed at, as it should be.

On the Idea that the first law, the definition of the Law of Energy, it couldn't be a 'natural' process. Since there would be no 'natural', nothing existed and that's why it couldn't occur in such a way.
Nope. But if you don't want to call it natural, let's just call it a supernatural unconscious energy, no real difference to me except the redundant use of the word supernatural to describe something we just maybe don't understand?

Everything we know about physics and physical properties is attributed to the physical laws which 'govern' our universe and all but the first can be explained. Even in a 'law-less', the first law which is the law of energy could not be determined by anything naturally because there is no nature. Let's say the first law was 'The Law of xxx'. Where xxx is a negative convulsion which is undefinable by human physics. In order for the xxx to be maintained it would need sub-laws to keep it animate, and in a lawless universe having a law leaves room for spontaneous laws to 'protect' the first law, but never to create law since their would be no 'way'. Anyways, xxx cannot negatively convulse because of the other xxx in the viscinity it cannot pulsate whille the other xxx is there. So each time it pulsates it transfers negativity (opposite to gravity) outwards, pushing away the other xxx and protecting itself. (It would not have life in this universe as all the matter would RAPIDLY begin to seperate and pulsate untill all the xxx is used up. And then the xxx would continually just 'detract' other xxx. It would never change to other matter because it wouldn't be stressed again. But when all the negative (whcih you wont be able to fathom) convulsions and re-traction is gone, it would turn into positive (something similar to what we know today. In which case it would all quickly (clash together) which would test it since they cannot pulsate in the viscinity of each other, it could then transfer all of its 'bearing' to the pulsating xxx and the other xxx would be apart of it. Then all the xxx's would all join together in a blob turning from positive to negative and negative to positive over and over again. Never being tested again.

This is an example of the first law xxx, ours however is energy and because of it every other law exists. I wouldn't say that there isn't millions of universes all with 'different' laws but NONE of them could exist without someone first 'defining' the first law. (Anyone could tell you the laws of energy, such as it cannot be lost, it's self maintaining, it can be transfered to matter and whatever else. )
Jesus christ.... what a load of pseudoscientific nonsense... I mean holy fucking shit. What do you expect me to write in response to that?

OMFG RELIGION IS EVIL... LOOK THEY CARE ABOUT THE PROBLEMS IN THE WORLD... THAT EVIL RELIGION WHICH TRICKS US TO BE NICE...
Religion is a big cause of the problems in the world. If there was no religious conflict in the middle east and border/resource/cultural dispute would have been fixed ages ago, it is this untethered faith (or lack of critical thinking) that leads to the biggest problems, even if religion can do good in the world.

Islam challenges people to test it and to indulge in the gifts that god gave us... Intelligence... All Islam asks is that when they day comes to you (The Last Day) that you acknowledge the Koran and you will be taken to a path of light.
So essentially, use intelligence/critical thinking to come to your predisposed answer? It doesn't work like that I'm sorry, if Islam tells people to use critical thinking and at the same time that they must accept islam in the end, that is just another contradiction.
 
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sam04u

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Wow... Galen performed cataract surgery in the year 130... (this guy is like my new idol... knowing what man could not know....)
 

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