Does the university you go to really matter? (1 Viewer)

[flamearrows]

Well said, flamearrows. Unfortuantely just stuck at Break 3 at the moment and can't see Break 4 coming any time soon... though I'm sure some have just deviated completely off track.

Edit: most people I'm arguing with here... or they're probably still stuck before Break 1

Most people don't know what the acronyms stand for

 

[thongetsu]

welcome to bored of studies.

Welcome to the internet.

Fixed.

 

[dste6]

Monstermunch: Don't take notice of omnidragon, he calls everyone kid. He seems to think its an effective way of adding credibility to his statements without actually constructing credible arguments. Truth is he hasn't said anything particularly useful since he started here, so people usually just treat him with a passive contempt, or disregard. Kind of like the idiot that used to sit at the back of your class, annoying everyone.

Flamingarrows: That's a really fun article, though its slightly concerning that some people don't realize that its satire.

 

[Existential]

Welcome to the internet.

Fixed.

(esp. BoS)

 

[flamearrows]

Flamingarrows: That's a really fun article, though its slightly concerning that some people don't realize that its satire.

I don't think it's quite as satirical as it appears...

 

[pearshaker]

I can't believe how rude everyone is to one another... It makes me wonder if it's worthwhile even replying to these threads for fear of someone going off their rocker at me for having an opinion...

BUT

I think the importance of the university you go to is really subjective. I've worked in a top tier firm who are every bit the snob when it comes to your education (IMO), but a smaller firm I worked for, didn't really make a big fuss. I've worked in government also, and they don't seem to put alot of emphasis on the university, just the quality of work you put out. Having said that, there are a few individuals in each of those environments that impose this kind of importance.

If the principles are all the same - should it really matter what university you attended?

 

[flamearrows]

If the principles are all the same - should it really matter what university you attended?

Yes.

The hiring process is inherently risky for the firm. Training costs are high, particularly for graduate solicitors. A high-achieving student from a good university has a lower risk of being unsuitable for the job as, compared to a similarly achieving student from a not-so-good university, as they have excelled in a more competitive and difficult environment.

This is why the university you attended becomes less relevant over time, as you can show via your work experience your abilities.

 

[pearshaker]

Yes.

The hiring process is inherently risky for the firm. Training costs are high, particularly for graduate solicitors. A high-achieving student from a good university has a lower risk of being unsuitable for the job as, compared to a similarly achieving student from a not-so-good university, as they have excelled in a more competitive and difficult environment.

This is why the university you attended becomes less relevant over time, as you can show via your work experience your abilities.

I agree with you to some extent.

However, how does one determine that a university is more competitive and difficult to another? by reputation right? how is a reputation determined? by it's alumni? by the interviewer?

Anyone who's worked in practice would also know that a good education and excellent uni results does not equal an excellent lawyer.

All i'm saying is that I wouldn't discredit someone based solely on the university they attended.

I do, however, definately agree that your university has less importance as you work through that PAE.

 

[pearshaker]

LOL



Most posters here, are young 20 year olds who have no idea of the realities of the legal working world, other than rumours. Its true that getting into a top tier is very tough as a new graduate. just to let people know, I know 2 D average final year students from unsw who could NOT get jobs in top tiers for next year.



MonsterMuch has done 2 bachelors, and a diploma. Obviously her life experience is greater than most people here, especially working as a psychiatric nurse! You shouldnt have a problem communicating with clients.



My advice:

considering your "real life" situation of having to earn a living whilst studying, an online course would be ideal, and easily be sufficient to get a job. Ive studied the law, worked in 2 law firms and dealt with enough lawyers to know. Even if you do not get a job right away after graduation, you eventually will if you keep trying. I noticed there was no mention of you trying into a top tier. I might want to add, that Charles Stuart would probally be more suitable than the UNE course for you in SA



Keep in mind the Legal profession in Adelaide is tiny with Flinders, Unisa, Adelaide + online courses, all supplying lawyers. All the medical malpractice lawyers i dealt with in Adelaide seemed to know one another!



I want to drill another thing into young kids brains about top tiers, NOT ALL LAWYERS at top tiers came from a top tier universities. think about that.

If you have 10 years experience in a specialised field from a 2nd tier firm, and a top tier needs that skill, there obviously is a chance you'll be hired depending on your track record.

I think firms these days are more open to the idea that alot of their applicants for positions are going to have some element of distance education. It's a reality. Not everyone can afford to study full time and work part time or not at all.

As someone who has had the benefit of studying internally and externally (both locally and by distance), and yes all law related studies, I can honestly say that studying law by distance or external to your peers is very difficult, but not impossible. It just takes alot of discipline and, to some extent, "over"-communication with your peers by email/phone/discussion boards etc.

 

[flamearrows]

I agree with you to some extent.

However, how does one determine that a university is more competitive and difficult to another? by reputation right? how is a reputation determined? by it's alumni? by the interviewer?

Anyone who's worked in practice would also know that a good education and excellent uni results does not equal an excellent lawyer.

All i'm saying is that I wouldn't discredit someone based solely on the university they attended.

I do, however, definately agree that your university has less importance as you work through that PAE.

Yeah, I know that a good university education doesn't. But it makes it more likely. Hence less risk.

When I say "good" I mostly mean competitive. This is primarily judged on difficulty of entry. Why?

Assume that the UAI you receive is a reasonable approximation of your ability as a student. Not a perfect approximation, but a reasonable one. The band of student abilities is therefore higher and tighter at UNSW and USyd than it is at UTS, UWS, Macquarie. This stays the same throughout the degree.

Students perform to a bell curve relative to their peers. Sometimes this is made more explicit by the law school's grading policy (as at UNSW). The average student at UNSW is roughly equal to the average student at Sydney and so on. However, the average student at UNSW is - by hypothesis - better than the average student at UWS.

So, yeah, university is part of the sorting process and an important one. Sure, someone from UWS with a 70 average may be just as good at commercial litigation as someone from UNSW with an 80 average, but chances are they're not.

 

[Omnidragon]

Monstermunch: Don't take notice of omnidragon, he calls everyone kid. He seems to think its an effective way of adding credibility to his statements without actually constructing credible arguments. Truth is he hasn't said anything particularly useful since he started here, so people usually just treat him with a passive contempt, or disregard. Kind of like the idiot that used to sit at the back of your class, annoying everyone.

Flamingarrows: That's a really fun article, though its slightly concerning that some people don't realize that its satire.

Let's see... you started in 2009 and I started here in 2005 (my 2nd year) when you were still in primary school? You went all the way back to see if I had said anything useful? How sad...

I don't need to say anything constructive anymore because the people from my time no longer come here, and all that's left now are a bunch of know-it-all university kids such as yourself still talking about clerkships and articles.

If someone asks a simple question like does the university matter, all I need to do is say yes or no as I have no time for indepth analysis and what not. Not to mention I love stirring uni kids like you who take these questions so far/seriously.

 

[shaon0]

Yes, certainly does. Especially in highly competitive fields eg Law.

 

[Omnidragon]

I agree with you to some extent.

However, how does one determine that a university is more competitive and difficult to another? by reputation right? how is a reputation determined? by it's alumni? by the interviewer?

Anyone who's worked in practice would also know that a good education and excellent uni results does not equal an excellent lawyer.

All i'm saying is that I wouldn't discredit someone based solely on the university they attended.

I do, however, definately agree that your university has less importance as you work through that PAE.

Like the others, you think too much. It's as simple as this. The unis that you think are good are just that; good. I don't know if they teach better stuff. I don't know if they produce smarter people.

But when you finally join the workforce and sit on the other side of the recruitment game and you see the senior associate and partner laugh about some CV from XXX Uni (insert name of not-so-well-regareded mediocre uni) or the VP and MD laugh about YYY Uni (insert name of not-so-well-regarded mediocre uni), you realise none of this crap matters. A well-regarded uni will always put you ahead. Period. At a top-tier firm, there're enough well-rounded people from top tier unis so it's almost a given your uni will be good.

I don't need to go into credible arguments or anything. You know why? Because I'm not at your level and I'm not speaking to you at your level and because I'm not at your level (tempted to insert kid again but I'm refrain since you're a noob here). You're speaking from the experience of a university student going through interviews or maybe even with a job secured, trying to work out whether your university matters. Well I sit on the other side as a junior manager deciding which kid to hire after my junior staff who have had a few years experience in MC or IB or top tier law have already thrown out most CVs from XXX and YYY Uni.

Edit: but go on, feel free to listen to the advice of the university kids. I'm sure they'd know more than me

 

[pearshaker]

If you think you're above going into credible arguments, why do you bother posting at all? Wake up buddy - we're discussing things.. because this is a discussion forum. Did you miss that memo?

I'll give you one thing - you're very successful. Successful in making yourself look utterly ridiculous by presuming so much. You presume I am a child - think again. You presume I am not in managment, nor have I ever held such a position - think again. Care to presume anything else while you're at it?

Your posts are without merit, and I would presume to say, so are you.

And if I can just say - if what you're about is this whole "age/experience" thing - given the fact that you seem to have graduated in 2003, I would also presume to say, you're the child here.

 

[WannaBeLaw]

I don't think the university matters much to be honest.

For women, in my experience, it helps much more to be ridiculously good looking. Then again, we all can't look like Natasha Henstridge.

For guys, it helps for them to be tall.

 

[Rothbard]

For the record I like creating cool shit

 

[Omnidragon]

If you think you're above going into credible arguments, why do you bother posting at all? Wake up buddy - we're discussing things.. because this is a discussion forum. Did you miss that memo?

I'll give you one thing - you're very successful. Successful in making yourself look utterly ridiculous by presuming so much. You presume I am a child - think again. You presume I am not in managment, nor have I ever held such a position - think again. Care to presume anything else while you're at it?

Your posts are without merit, and I would presume to say, so are you.

And if I can just say - if what you're about is this whole "age/experience" thing - given the fact that you seem to have graduated in 2003, I would also presume to say, you're the child here.

Blah blah blah... don't get so angry/serious. Might pop one of those little blood vessels in your head. Would hate to see that

I'm sure you're in management, at McDonalds or KFC?

Edit: love the new accounts too... so which one are you from the people before?

 

[chrisnumber1]

Mate I am a proud fuckan white and I go to UNSW

and it is the best

your just a liar

 

[chrisnumber1]

I don't think the university matters much to be honest.

For women, in my experience, it helps much more to be ridiculously good looking. Then again, we all can't look like Natasha Henstridge.

For guys, it helps for them to be tall.

and have a massive penis

 

[dste6]

omnidragon, pearshaker has a very good point, why do you come here? No one believes a word you say. You make such stupid posts that its hard to believe that your a day over 16, then try support for them being some dubious claim that you actually are experienced.

To be honest, I'm not particular concerned whether you are what you claim, I just find it fascinating how someone can keep shooting themselves in the foot so badly, its like watching someone try to skateboard and breaking his balls on a railing.

Most of us are students here, who are just trying to get by, but also have time our hands to discuss these things. Your apparently above this so stop hanging around giving students a hard time like some weird old guy in front of a school yard, its pathetic. I know you've heard this before, but go live your life dude.