DVD incident (1 Viewer)

[sunjet]

I got linked to their myspaces but they have been taken down now, fucking faggots honestly I hope they get the shit beaten out of them.

 

[Atticus.]

so reading in todays paper i see that there is a call to have the ring leaders charged in an adult court

your opinions.

 

[gerhard]

Re: Werribee

i looked on youtube for the videos but i could only find 3 non offensive ones

 

[Atticus.]

Re: Werribee

Seen the video, the girl looked drunk not retarded.

That said and done they are minors, they should be tried as minors.

I'm sorry but that's the law. It's black and white. Black and fucking white.

Trying them as adults to appease social displeasure is a slippery fucking slope and shouldn't happen.

true. but its not like there isnt a precedent for it
especially considering the scale of what they did...

in a way its even worse than the sydney gang rape case, which skaff got 55 years for

 

[*hopeful*]

Re: Werribee

i think its pretty disgusting and if tried as adults maybe get the real sentence they deserve...i dunno

 

[Captain Obvious 1]

It's a disgusting act, no doubt, but to use words such as "forced" is rather bullshit because you can't force someone to have oral sex, they have fucking teeth.

A similar argument was used by one of the Lebanese gang rapists; he said that he was innocent because he only "flopped his cock in and out of the girls mouth". 'rape' is introducing any object owned, held, possessed or controlled by a person into the oriface of another, in a sexually explicit way, without their consent (amongst other criteria).

Just because she has teeth doesn't mean she cant be orally raped. It is one problem for prisoners however, who sometimes choose to smash a mans teeth out before forcing him to perform oral sex (so that he can't bite down).

She did not consent, and she is intellectually challenged even if she did.

 

[ur_inner_child]

I'd imagine that a victim, when surrounded by a number of men and getting forced to perform oral sex, would be afraid for his/her life to ever bite down.

 

[Cactus]

Havn't read any other posts but:

An argument in the legal community is; these kids are underage and therefore shouldn't be 'named and shamed' to used the Today Tonight term. It would do undue harm to them and their rehabilitation progress. My objection is - This girl's reahbilitation process has been completely ruined, not only has she not been able to recover from this terrible incident without attention - there is VIDEO of it on the net. People all over the world have seen it. If she has to endure that sort of humiliation, these idiots should have to endure the (in my view) inadequite measure of having their name dragged through the mud. It's hard to draw a line between fair punishment and lynch mobs - I'm glad i'm not a judge because these guys would be facing some unfairly harsh measures in my court

 

[Cactus]

I'd imagine that a victim, when surrounded by a number of men and getting forced to perform oral sex, would be afraid for his/her life to ever bite down.

I've thought that before too, and I guess that makes me a target for feminists for the rest of my days. The Bible says an eye for an eye. But if you don't take the eye to which you are entitled, isn't that more virtuous? (I'm not religious BTW) Also, the fact the girl is 'developmentally delayed' is a factor

 

[Serius]

good point. Now iam going to play devils advocate, so no1 take offence.
I have heard a fair bit of controversy over wether the girl is legally responsable for herself or not. At first alot of words like 'intelectually disabled' were thrown around. The thing is, being intelectually disabled is not two words thrown together, it is a technical term and you need to be assessed to see if you fit the criteria...this girl doesnt, so you cant really apply the term to her.

There is a big gap between someone who is legally disabled and someone who is just an idiot.

The shit thing is no matter how much i looked, i couldnt actually get ahold of the video so i cant assess properly all the claims made.

One thing said was that the lighting hair on fire thing, it was just a bit of a joke and she did it back to one of the guys [can shro or waf confirm this?]
This i can relate to, at school people would do it as a joke, or just flick a lighter behind someones ear to startle them... it was never taken seriously, it happened to me once or twice and i didnt think of it as bullying or assult.

The other stuff, throwing her jacket in the river...yeah thats bullying, but hardly worthy of jail time... throwing her top into a tree, same deal... the way today tonight said it implied the guys took her shirt off, but if she took it off herself and then someone1 through it in the tree, thats just bullying.

Now we get a bit more serious... urinating on someone, thats assult yeah but people rarely press charges with it, some people are into that so whatever. If she was angry about it or didnt like it, it should show clearly on the video, yelling, walking away anything?

Forced oral sex? i am sceptical. I read she was smiling and it looked voluntary, sure a pretty asshole thing to do with 11 other guys there and filming it, but aslong as she didnt forcefully say the word "NO" then i am not sure of the legality.

The girl didnt report it for months... now i have ZERO respect for rape victims who dont report it straight away...and please dont tell me she was too slow to understand rape is wrong, i am in contact with far more intelectually disabled people than you and all of them are tought the basics about good touch, bad touch an so on. If it was rape, well the prosecution lost a shitload of evidence because she didnt report it straight away, all they are going on is the video.

These guys are in the wrong, but i feel the media has overhyped things aswell...and no they arent going to rot in prison or get raped by buba most likely they will get a slap on the wrist, community service or something. Even in worst case scenario they are still minors and wont be in that much trouble.

 

[AsyLum]

Re: Werribee

Trying someone as an adult has only one issue. To use as an example to others so the same crime is not committed.

But using punishment as a deterrent is not something that works. It was not a pre-thought pre-planned incident, it was a spur of the moment incident that was way out of line.

We all know this.

You're contending that the intent to film various events, to compile these events, to distribute a DVD containing various other 'events' as well as the fact they organised the meeting with her with, with what I understand, was a group of 14 boys, to be 'spur of the moment' ?

 

[HotShot]

Serius has brought some valid points there - that need to be addressed. We all know the media are quick to exaggerate, twist etc for the sake of ratings and more importantly money.

Apart from all that he as written which i feel is all valid, making movie of it and then selling it - i think is illegal. The distrubution of the video i think clearly is a huge mistake and actions needs to taken on that.

As far whether the girl was really harassed or not - its hard to say she could have been acting in the video - after all they were selling it for money. plus their parents didnt seem to mind what was going on either?.

 

[HotShot]

Whose parents?

it was in the source put up, one of their parent allowed them to use the camcorder and were laughing at the video.

 

[withoutaface]

A similar argument was used by one of the Lebanese gang rapists; he said that he was innocent because he only "flopped his cock in and out of the girls mouth". 'rape' is introducing any object owned, held, possessed or controlled by a person into the oriface of another, in a sexually explicit way, without their consent (amongst other criteria).

Just because she has teeth doesn't mean she cant be orally raped. It is one problem for prisoners however, who sometimes choose to smash a mans teeth out before forcing him to perform oral sex (so that he can't bite down).

She did not consent, and she is intellectually challenged even if she did.

She consented to the extent that she could with her condition, or that's what I'm lead to believe anyway. I've also been told that in the video she's smiling and laughing, it's a matter of not having the capacity to give consent rather than force being used.

This is a completely different animal to a brutal gang rape. Not any better or worse, but different because of the nature of the female participant.

 

[banco55]

Havn't read any other posts but:

An argument in the legal community is; these kids are underage and therefore shouldn't be 'named and shamed' to used the Today Tonight term. It would do undue harm to them and their rehabilitation progress. My objection is - This girl's reahbilitation process has been completely ruined, not only has she not been able to recover from this terrible incident without attention - there is VIDEO of it on the net. People all over the world have seen it. If she has to endure that sort of humiliation, these idiots should have to endure the (in my view) inadequite measure of having their name dragged through the mud. It's hard to draw a line between fair punishment and lynch mobs - I'm glad i'm not a judge because these guys would be facing some unfairly harsh measures in my court

I think keep both victim and perpetrator's names secret during the trial. If convicted their names should be publically released. If they did what is alleged who cares about their prospects for rehabilitation? Lock them up for 20 years.

 

[withoutaface]

I think keep both victim and perpetrator's names secret during the trial. If convicted their names should be publically released. If they did what is alleged who cares about their prospects for rehabilitation? Lock them up for 20 years.

Wooh, retributive justice!

 

[Captain Gh3y]

From the dude's myspace which we're apparently not allowed to post;

What’s going on Porto? I am going to jump on the bandwagon and say I am behind you and the boys. You are good kids and it is this tabloid style sensationalist television reporting that has put you in this position. But what piss’s me off for you is that girl involved. It is obvious she consented to it. She is smiling, laughing and pardon the pun, loving it. Now she is too ashamed to admit to her parents, friends and the public about her actions, they are now turning around and saying she was forced and laying blame on you boys, destroying your images and identity in turn, just to save their own identity. Its pathetic this girl and her family are going to get away with blatantly lying to the police and more importantly the general concerned public and especially you.
I know you got some good kids up in Weribee and around to offer you support, but I am here if you need it mate. Keep strong and you know people in turn will help you too.

 

[Serius]

you know her well enough to know her mental capacity? They said intellectually disabled, which wouldn't be a term they would apply willy nilly.

She was an idiot how?
Good.. Then stop saying stuff to lesson what these guys have done.
Yeh she was pissing herself laughing when they did it.
They did it repeatedly..... And she didn't like it either time.
People shouldn't press charges for being urinated on.. It's all just a joke. people did it to me at school all the time and i never considered it assault........

She's simple.
yes does not imply consent, no does not imply denial. It's about the will of the person it's done to.
Sometimes they can't report it straight away. Psychological reasons, incapacitated by age, threats, coming to terms with what has occured etc.
Unfortunately.

no1 said she was intelectually disabled, the term they used on the today tonight segment [ which apparently i am not allowed to post] was "developmentally delayed" is that even a real term? i dont think so.

it seems to me they are trying to dodge using the word 'disabled' because they know very well she isnt, but instead implying she has some sort of intelectual dissadvantaged.... Disabled is a very specific and technical word, you cant just throw it around as if it means nothing... although i have poor eyesight which dissadvantages me, i cant claim i am now disabled. get the drift?

what i meant by saying she is probably just an idiot is that she isnt smarter than the average bear, whatever, having an iq lower than 80 means you will have trouble learning things, but that doesnt mean you dont have all the other rights that someone of sound mind has... like that kid on jamies kitchen australia, he has learning difficulties but he wouldnt be questioned if he wanted to buy booze [unless he is under 18, i have no idea] Being slow is not an excuse or something that adds to the crime the same way that being intelectually disabled does.
She has no condition, and until they prove it with assessment records i dont beleive it. [ and buy assessment i dont mean her school report showing straight D's]


She can press charges for being urinated on if she wants, but i dont really see how its worth the effort sure its disgusting and assult, but same asif some drunk spills his beer on me iam not going to call the cops am i?

 

[LynH1326]

Re: Werribee

Seen the video, the girl looked drunk not retarded.

That said and done they are minors, they should be tried as minors.

I'm sorry but that's the law. It's black and white. Black and fucking white.

Trying them as adults to appease social displeasure is a slippery fucking slope and shouldn't happen.

In the Northern Territory, young offenders are named and shamed in the hope that they will not reoffend. In the USA, young offenders can be placed on death row and they do get adult punishments as there are no laws protecting the imprisonment of minors.

Since most of the boys are 17, they can be tried as adults. That is also enshrined in Australian law. It's up to the magistrates to distinguish between petty crimes and ones as serious as this.


To those who say that there is no such thing as rape and that the girl was smiling and that the girl was drunk, I think you all need a reality check. If that girl was you, would you still be saying these things?

Imagine if it was your sister or your girlfriend. Would YOU still be saying those things? What if it was your own daughter?

Think about it.

I'm glad to see that most of the males posting in this thread are seeing the girl's side of things. It shows how mature they are. The rest of you need to GROW UP.

 

[Serius]

look no1 is saying rape doesnt happen, child rape victims and male rape victims would be the least reported in the world, it would be a fucking HARD thing to stand up and say you have been raped and put yourself through a messy trial... but people need to understand that if they dont it will just keep going on, the same scumbags will be out there raping someone else.
If you are going to report it, report it straight away dont try and ignore it for a few months - very very bad idea, most of the evidence is gone by then.

Do you want to know why so many rapists get found innocent? its because consent is something hard to prove but its even harder to prove lack of consent... an unfortunate byproduct of our law system is that alot of guilty parties get away with it because its hard to prove them guilty... the thing is i would prefer to let 10 guilty people get free before i lock away someone innocent.
Even with the video, it will be very hard to prove she didnt concent to the actual sex crime, which makes the case the new monkey trial.