English is a waste of life. (4 Viewers)

[prichardson]

Brave New World.

@ OP & Prichardson: There are already heaps of threads like this one and people just argue the same points over and over again. What do they actually achieve? Very little. You're entitled to your opinion, but you've only got a few more months to go until you're done with the course forever, what will complaining about it achieve?

The BOS doesnt really care what you guys think about the course, so instead of writing essays about why it shouldn't be compulsory and why the course sucks, just deal hey.

(Also, Prichardson, you've criticised others on their spelling, but yours isn't perfect either...just saying)

I criticised other for grammar and not spelling in the knowledge that as I'm typing fast there are going to be a few typos... since I've been writing so much in the time I'm on here in the middle of doign a bunch of other stuff.

Anyway, like I said earlier, I have to vent; it stops me going to jail And maybe I could perhaps convince somebody who in their future life went and worked for the govt. or BOS, so they could try and change things. Small chance, but without hope we may as well all just give up and die

ummm...because youre supposed to know HOW that has been done.

already said that its not about the content.

Why do I have to know how it's done? He wrote a book and imparted a set of ideas to me, the reader. That's all I need to know, and I know it.

 

[scaredytiger]

Why do I have to know how it's done? He wrote a book and imparted a set of ideas to me, the reader. That's all I need to know, and I know it.

dissecting a concept and proving how it is created is the foundation of all discourse.

thereby any intellectual discussion, verbal or in print, is informed by this.

 

[prichardson]

Aerath, I agree to an extent, I am doing pretty average in the subject, this isn't my point though.

If I did any other subject and screwed it up (as you listed a few) I would have myself to blame, because I chose them, but I did not pick english! Which is my point.

It really isn't necessary to life.

And you may say, nor is maths? As someone pointed out, but I chose to do maths because I'm interested (by the way, I dont do too well at maths either, but I still love it )

My proposal, which has no hope of getting anywhere because the Board of Studies are ignorant, is that english can remain compulsory, but don't make it compulsory to count to the best 10 units if it's not strong.

That way we are still studing 'english' but dont necessarily have to be interested. Afterall, dont they encourage choice at the BOS?

For the record - Shakespeare is a waste of time. His language is dead. Read if you want, but dont bore the rest of us with it.

Nice solution! But yeah... they are ignorant

And Shakespeare... well, alot of people like him and I think his use of language was genius. I wouldn't personally read his works for personal interest (or I might, since he has so much esteem in our culture - although the chances of that are dashed because I had to learn it in the English environment). Maybe if I learnt it more in drama I would have better appreciated it.

dissecting a concept and proving how it is created is the foundation of all discourse.

thereby any intellectual discussion, verbal or in print, is informed by this.

Why dissect the concept on paper when I could use the book as a stimulus for though and philosophy, as I often do when reading personally?

 

[scaredytiger]

Maybe if I learnt it more in drama I would have better appreciated it.

tbh, the way shakespearean theatre was done was pretty boring. it was very proclaimitory. not much physical action.

but then again, directors didnt exist at that time. and the cast pretty much never saw each other between casting and opening night.

Why dissect the concept on paper when I could use the book as a stimulus for though and philosophy, as I often do when reading personally?

because it is too hard to do interviews of everyone in the state with the markers.

 

[prichardson]

because it is too hard to do interviews of everyone in the state with the markers.

So, I'm not suggesting that they do anything for the purposes of examination... I'm saying that you don't need to understand a text by doing it at school.

And an interview with everyone in the state would be pretty much the same as a speech now wouldn't it, only you would just go in with a body of knowledge rather than a set piece.

tbh, the way shakespearean theatre was done was pretty boring. it was very proclaimitory. not much physical action.

but then again, directors didnt exist at that time. and the cast pretty much never saw each other between casting and opening night.

Yep, there are plays I'd much rather do in drama than Shakespeare's, but I'm saying that if I had to learn him that'd be the place.

 

[scaredytiger]

do you realise how retarded what you just said was?

the course is in place to add sophistication to your analysis. so you have to do it.
how are you meant to be marked if theres no form of examination?

Yep, there are plays I'd much rather do in drama than Shakespeare's, but I'm saying that if I had to learn him that'd be the place.

hmmmm no.
his language is key. which is why there are no stage directions. english provides a better place to learn it.

 

[prichardson]

do you realise how retarded what you just said was?

the course is in place to add sophistication to your analysis. so you have to do it.
how are you meant to be marked if theres no form of examination?

Not retarded at all, the course does not add sophistication to your analysis, it "strongly guides" you to a predetermined analysis, which, by it's very nature, prevents the evolution of understanding.

And obviously since I'm saying only different things should be part of the course, the fact that there is no examination for something which isn't part of the course is quite acceptable

hmmmm no.
his language is key. which is why there are no stage directions. english provides a better place to learn it.

Well I've done Shakespeare in drama and preferred it there, but I guess that's a personal preference, so I guess if you prefer it in English more then that's as true for you as it is the opposite for me.

 

[scaredytiger]

if you found a well substantiated argument and communicated it effectively, regardless of whether it was a "normal" analysis, you would get a band 6.

stop whining. get on with your hsc.

 

[nerdsforever]

Re: Anyone else hate English as much as me?

english sucks. but Its still useful in life

 

[prichardson]

if you found a well substantiated argument and communicated it effectively, regardless of whether it was a "normal" analysis, you would get a band 6.

stop whining. get on with your hsc.

The first point is why I do well in English essays... but the classwork remains centred on "normal" interpretations and analysis'.

Whining = No jail.

HSC...

I'll just keep doing other subjects

english sucks. but Its still useful in life

English is awesome up until prelim's and HSC, I found [although I hated it in yr 10 thanks to my teacher... ].

 

[scaredytiger]

its centred on "normal" interpretations because people arent smart... in general.

they dont want to think for themselves. unless you actually put all the ideas out for them to copy, they dont know what to do.

 

[prichardson]

its centred on "normal" interpretations because people arent smart... in general.

they dont want to think for themselves. unless you actually put all the ideas out for them to copy, they dont know what to do.

True enough, but I think what you said that they're just copying and not interacting is probably one of the things which makes doing such things so pointless. It's one thing to be able to just regurgitate information, but it's another to actually be able to consider the material and create your own understanding...

 

[scaredytiger]

just regurgitating information wont get you into the top bands.

i know girls who complain my english teacher is biased because they dont get high marks, though its blindmarked. they honestly believe she memorises their student numbers. wouldnt have anything to do with the fact they havent even read the book...

the markers are very good at distinguishing between robotic responses and well informed ones.

 

[prichardson]

just regurgitating information wont get you into the top bands.

i know girls who complain my english teacher is biased because they dont get high marks, though its blindmarked. they honestly believe she memorises their student numbers. wouldnt have anything to do with the fact they havent even read the book...

the markers are very good at distinguishing between robotic responses and well informed ones.

Yeah I don't doubt that, but in many ways we are encouraged to pick one of a few normal interpretations which already have alot of background so we don't have to do that much work...

Heh... for Blade Runner (co-text with BNW), well, I fell asleep in the first 20 mins of the movie, I suppose that shows how great it was I ended up going over and over and over the first 7 scenes (like 30 mins) of the movie in class... and apart from that I just read a few synopsis', which I always do whether I've watched the film or not, because they give you a stripped down version of the film with only the meaty bits left, which is what markers are really after anyway. So often I find that the only area of my essays which could improve are just giving more techniques,but I don't really like them, and when you haven't watched the movie... ahhh.

And about the people who think their teachers are being unfair and remember their student numbers... hehe, they're really not that special

 

[agua.fuego]

Re: Anyone else hate English as much as me?

You used grammar, question, ellipsis, capitalisation, syntax, spelling, the English language, nouns, verbs and adjectives to contruct your post so I believe the language skills developed in English are absolutely paramount.

Nice.

 

[prichardson]

Re: Anyone else hate English as much as me?

Don't necessarily dislike English, but rather literature, which is what I feel we are learning. I don't really have any interest in novels, and poems written by drunks.

Just quietly, I don't think that a crack-high person would think that what you said was linked to what she said...

 

[scaredytiger]

Re: Anyone else hate English as much as me?

Don't necessarily dislike English, but rather literature, which is what I feel we are learning. I don't really have any interest in novels, and poems written by drunks.

why on earth did you choose that post to quote??

also, im pretty sure coleridge was on opium, not drunk.
read over my other posts. the content is not what matters...

 

[charlesdinio]

Scaredytiger,

Parents are LEGALLY (which I learnt in legal studies, and is relevant to life) obliged to look after their childrens health, but I dont recall my parents, or im sure any of my mates parents, teaching them the risk factors of CVD or cancer etc. The advice parents gives are.. 'eat vegetables'. I'm speaking on behalf of myself and my mates, I suppose some parents would be more uptight about it.

In my opinion, knowing how to maintain good health is FAR more important than learning a dead language, i.e. Shakespeare.

And I acknowledge that your sister does law and doesn't have the best grammer, but thats speaking for one person. Both my sisters have managed distinction in a tough course and dont need anything they have learnt in any of the english modules.

Legal studies is uesless at a university level, your right, but I can promise you that I wont be studying property law, or family law next year. If anything, legal has taught me which aspects of the law I appreciate and dont. Hence it has saved me some time, money and decision making. English on the other hand, is not relevant at all. I PROMISE you the second my HSC is done I will never ever again need to make notes on a poem, analyse technique or study any of those useless modules which teach nothing relevant and are merely there to rank students.

"english's relevancy is not about the content. a lot of people will not understand what they have actually learnt from doing the course, and some will only understand 5-10 years later"

(Sorry I'm new to this, I dont know how to quote little bits)

If a lot of people will not understand what they have learnt, I truly debate the validity of learning it. I for one don't have a clue, your completely right! In 5-10 years, I think I would have moved on to a job, where english has been well and truly put to sleep.

 

[lala2]

Ok, I have posted in this thread before, but I haven't bothered reading much past the replies to my response, so I apologise if anyone's asked or answered this question already:

What would you have them do?

Whether it be dropping English altogether, making it optional, or making it cover different aspects, whatever. And please justify. This should be interesting...

 

[scaredytiger]

If a lot of people will not understand what they have learnt, I truly debate the validity of learning it. I for one don't have a clue, your completely right! In 5-10 years, I think I would have moved on to a job, where english has been well and truly put to sleep.

youll be speaking chinese then i presume? writing in it also?

and im presuming youll be doing law? analysing cases and the such?
analytical skills dont divide themselves up into "im english" "im law" etc. they are cultivated as a whole.

for example, i do advanced english, drama and visual arts.
i may as well be doing the same subject when it comes to theory.
but in english i analyse text through language techniques,
in art i analyse artworks through the frames,
and in drama i analyse productions through dramatic techniques.