Flag Burners (2 Viewers)

[54247]

Peoples concerned with the FLAGBURNER and who are still dicusted with his actions and are upset that the australian legal system hasnt responded hard enough... ohhhh have i got some first hand knowledge for you!!!!!

I actually visited his home today (he wasnt there, [where family friends]). The first thing i saw was a approximately a 6 by 4 metre Australian flag clipped onto the face of the home !!!!!.Gees i'd like to see homes witha huge flag like that at the front of them. Obviously as we settled into the home, the topic automatically arose and i am totally discusted with what i heard during the conversation.

As you all know The RSL brought up the possibility that he marches with the ANZACS on anzac day. The family and he both agreed that yes that would be a great way to reconcile and basically say SORRY. But people from within the ANZAC organisation said if he even comes close and marches with us, where going to hit him or basically some how curse him using either physical force or even words.

Now yes there still hert about what he did but how on Earth is that AUSTRALIAN.

from ARYANBEAUTY
"How to live in harmony and how to live as minority." Hows the various responses given from the anzac organisation to someone who acknowledges his mistake and is willing to do acions to make up for it harmonious. DOUBLE STANDARD THEME... AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!

"If you already gone through primary school and still don't knwo what your flag represent or signifies, i'd say the education system has failed you or you already failed"

That also goes for the various people who make such thuglike barbaric comments about wanting to hit him. Our flag definately doesnt represent revengeful mentalities like that so i guess the education system failed so many years ago and also more recently with this younger bloke. Or is it the double standards that many people possess that may give the right to an anglo or whoever to make comments like that to a leb-wog-muslim etc etc but the leb-wog-muslim couldnt dare and do the same thing back.

I wonder... why isnt this in the media and huge fusses made about it. I think this relates to the MEDIA theme of GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT TO SEE. It is without reasonable doubt that what gains attention in the media since septemebr the 11th is..... wait for it...

LEBANESE THUG ASSAULTS AUSTRALIAN, MUFTI THREATENS TO BLOW UP THE MOON, OSAMA IS COMING TO TOWN.
Are people starting to get the pattern... Both sides of the story arnt shown. Therefore a large majority of a certain community such as the lebanese are alienated due to what less that 0.5% of them being thugs.

Double Standards!!

 

[ElendilPeredhil]

Most countries' flags have definite meanings such as in the US flag;White signifies purity and innocence, Red, hardiness & valour, and Blue, the color of the Chief [the broad band above the stripes] signifies vigilance, perseverance & justice.(wiki). Most students in the US knew what the flag stands for and what it represents. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to The Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. If those basic knowlege are not taught in australian schools I am not surprised that many australian are confused about their national identity such as many australian citizens, born here but not consider themselves australian or a part of it, or despise it! I seriously support an overhaul of australian school system and revision of curriculum. I'm wondering whether they taught civics subject at all in school?

"Naturally, the common people don't want war, but after all, it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag people along whether is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country."
Hermann Goering, Riech Marshall, Germany, Nuremberg Trials

 

[Aryanbeauty]

There are many people who will never forgive you for burning a flag, and no it is not their fault it is the fault of the person who burned the flag in the first place. The majority do not have to adjust to the tune of the minority, it is the duty of the minority to adjust if they want to live in harmony. The fact that they let you immigrate, work and live in their country shows that they are willing to accomodate you. First, you want australian to forgive him because he regret what he did, were there any forgiveness from Lebanese part when white australians stand up against lebanese thugs on cronulla beach? No, all we heard is retaliation, a violent one.

When illegal immigrants in USA protested against criminalization of illegal immigrants in the US, they initially came out with their national flag. Upon hearing americans are not pleased, millions of illegal immigrants in the USA from the whole of latin america, Asia and africa came out flying the flag of USA. Los Angeles and New York were flooded with a sea of illegal immigrants flying US flag protesting against the legislation which will make them criminals just for being in the US. They show that they have the same basic rights represented by the Flag just as every other law obeying American citizens.

What did the lebanese do? did they fly australian flag? NO. they fly their lebanese flag, and desecrate Australian flag, running around suburbs in town terrorising common residents for many days.

I am glad that Australian are standing up against these violent people, who think they can do it their own way if they use violence.

There is already a talk of racial violence in the UK just because they are talking about a ban on burka at workplace, supported by many MP including the Prime Minister Tony Blair. Whenever you talk or critisize anything on Islam, they took it as an offense and cryfoul of racism card. Now, Marrickville council is trying to make all shops and business signboards should be in English, targeted at mainly Chinese and Vietnamese business, there is no such accusation of racism from chinese or vietnamese community, there is no big issue about it. In fact it is expected to help them grow their business as more people will know what their business is doing or selling. I wonder how the lebanese react if similar things are imposed on them! I bet they'll issue Fatwa against the councillor and threaten to riot maybe? you tell me!

 

[HotShot]

There are many people who will never forgive you for burning a flag, and no it is not their fault it is the fault of the person who burned the flag in the first place. The majority do not have to adjust to the tune of the minority, it is the duty of the minority to adjust if they want to live in harmony. The fact that they let you immigrate, work and live in their country shows that they are willing to accomodate you. First, you want australian to forgive him because he regret what he did, were there any forgiveness from Lebanese part when white australians stand up against lebanese thugs on cronulla beach? No, all we heard is retaliation, a violent one.

There is no justification for violence of any kind. Many migrants come here, work hard, are ideal citizens, respect other people, respect people with differing cultures and then because of small incidents they have to pay the price? - just look at the reaction after 9/11 in Australia a lot arab people were tormented - did they deserve it - no.
how can you claim there was forgiveness after the cronulla riots? - do u have any proof that the pppl involved didnt forgive each other and move on?. The fact is it was retaliation - just the fact is the the kid burnt a flag - what we dont know was the reasons.

What did the lebanese do? did they fly australian flag? NO. they fly their lebanese flag, and desecrate Australian flag, running around suburbs in town terrorising common residents for many days.

I have a lot lebanese ppl that have place an australian flag outside their house (small ones) as a sign of appreciation of the life they have. I dont know what you are talking about.

I am glad that Australian are standing up against these violent people, who think they can do it their own way if they use violence.

its hypocritical if these 'australians' use violence as a method and as an example of how immigrants should be in australia.

There is already a talk of racial violence in the UK just because they are talking about a ban on burka at workplace, supported by many MP including the Prime Minister Tony Blair. Whenever you talk or critisize anything on Islam, they took it as an offense and cryfoul of racism card. Now, Marrickville council is trying to make all shops and business signboards should be in English, targeted at mainly Chinese and Vietnamese business, there is no such accusation of racism from chinese or vietnamese community, there is no big issue about it. In fact it is expected to help them grow their business as more people will know what their business is doing or selling. I wonder how the lebanese react if similar things are imposed on them! I bet they'll issue Fatwa against the councillor and threaten to riot maybe? you tell me!

U pondering on something that hasnt happened and making predictions backed with no evidence - its suggest the nature of your character. If you go places where there are larges of arabs - most of their shops have both english and arabic writings - i dont see any problem with this. where as the asian shops have everything written in asian (chinese etc) thereby others who cannot read asian languages are disadvantaged in the sense they dont know what there are missing out on. - its not really problem in essence it doesnt take much to ask what they have.

as for the ban on the burka - tell me who wears the burka? and by banning it are you singling those people out? isnt this against freedom and democracy? in what way does a burka have any influence in work?.

 

[ElendilPeredhil]

...
When illegal immigrants in USA protested against criminalization of illegal immigrants in the US, they initially came out with their national flag. Upon hearing americans are not pleased, millions of illegal immigrants in the USA from the whole of latin america, Asia and africa came out flying the flag of USA. Los Angeles and New York were flooded with a sea of illegal immigrants flying US flag protesting against the legislation which will make them criminals just for being in the US. They show that they have the same basic rights represented by the Flag just as every other law obeying American citizens.
...
What did the lebanese do? did they fly australian flag? NO. they fly their lebanese flag, and desecrate Australian flag, running around suburbs in town terrorising common residents for many days.

Your avatar is of the American and Israeli(?) flags.
You are not being a true australian. Come to think of it, (and I'm not trying to be rude) but what country are you from? Are you an American?

 

[Captain Gh3y]

He's kind of right though, the RSL people must have thought the apology was sincere if they made that offer, and the people threatening violence if he did carry the flag are worse than he was.

 

[Aryanbeauty]

The Burka debate in UK started with a muslim woman refusing to remove her veil infront of her students who complained that they cannot hear her properly. IF everyone have the right to wear whatever they choose at work place, there will be no uniform or dress code in the military, police, schools , woolworths and many departmental stores world wide. You have to conform to the norms and traditions acceptable to the society you live in.

I recently read a newspaper Epochtimes which says indians are becoming the largest immigrant after british and kiwis. When was the last time you heard about an Indian committing crime or an indian gang raping australian girl or indians rioting? I believe these kind of crimes has a lot to do with your background such as religion , country and family of origin.

To Elen, I am not australian but the ideals, culture, traditions, language, freedom and everything australian just suit what I want, thats why I came here in australia to study. I bet I would be a better australian than many australian who were born here, who hates this country, who despise it,who are against evrything austra;lia stands for; who only want the help of governemnt when they are in trouble and never give anything back to the country that help them.

 

[ur_inner_child]

IF everyone have the right to wear whatever they choose at work place, there will be no uniform or dress code in the military, police, schools , woolworths and many departmental stores world wide. You have to conform to the norms and traditions acceptable to the society you live in.

That seems to be going a little far into extremes.

For the workforce, I have seen people where the hajib, (headscarf) but you should probably equate to someone wearing a crucifix necklace they have worn or their lives while working in uniform.

But please go back on topic, I don't know what this has to do with anything especially as someone who went to a very multicultural school, I and muslims that I know have never seen anyone wear a full gown burka anywhere in Australian public. I mean its pretty alarming. Much like if a nun wore the full dress and headwear in public, I'd be pretty alarmed too.

I recently read a newspaper Epochtimes which says indians are becoming the largest immigrant after british and kiwis. When was the last time you heard about an Indian committing crime or an indian gang raping australian girl or indians rioting? I believe these kind of crimes has a lot to do with your background such as religion , country and family of origin.

You rely on media forms as a basis of which race is more prominent to crinimal behaviour? Well, that aside, I find criminal behaviour having a lot to do with your circumstances (mentally, financially, environmentally as well as your upbringing in the family...), don't you? I think it has very little to do with your racial background, religion, country and family of origin. Sure, a more violent country might have more violent members but that is environmental influence. The way you are saying it makes it sound like its almost totally genetic.

To Elen, I am not australian but the ideals, culture, traditions, language, freedom and everything australian just suit what I want, thats why I came here in australia to study. I bet I would be a better australian than many australian who were born here, who hates this country, who despise it,who are against evrything austra;lia stands for; who only want the help of governemnt when they are in trouble and never give anything back to the country that help them.

Well duh. And as an Australian, I feel its best for this young boy to be inspired and enlightened about Australia rather than to be punished for the act of burning. I feel marching on ANZAC day could do the trick. Charging him for theft and trespassing, sure, why not. As an Australian, I think its quite aussie-ish behaviour to just forgive this incident. I acknowledge that crime among migrants/etc might be a much larger issue to simply forgive, but as a local issue, it seems to have been solved.

As for the larger issue in which you keep bringing up, it might deserve a whole new thread. Its hard for migrants and their 1st to 2nd generations born into Australia to deal with their surroundings. Their isolation, discrimination etc whether their fault or not is something both they and the rest of Australia need to sit down and tackle: both the violent issues as well as the passive (such as culture clash, parents and their children etc). Yes its so easy to say what you've been saying: haters shouldn't be here etc, flag burning is atrocious, but to enforce it without stomping on what the flag represents such as freedom and tolerance? A little more complicated...

I feel the members of the RSL, getting to boy to march on ANZAC day is not only beautiful but also probably a more productive thing than gaoling him or shipping the boy back to "his country" or the like.

 

[HotShot]

The Burka debate in UK started with a muslim woman refusing to remove her veil infront of her students who complained that they cannot hear her properly. IF everyone have the right to wear whatever they choose at work place, there will be no uniform or dress code in the military, police, schools , woolworths and many departmental stores world wide. You have to conform to the norms and traditions acceptable to the society you live in.

Its not the first time teachers were wearing burkas to school. many teachers have worn and continue to wear it - just because one student or maybe her class complain about not being able to hear why should other people be forced to a ban?

I recently read a newspaper Epochtimes which says indians are becoming the largest immigrant after british and kiwis. When was the last time you heard about an Indian committing crime or an indian gang raping australian girl or indians rioting? I believe these kind of crimes has a lot to do with your background such as religion , country and family of origin.

most indian that do migrant here unlike other countries are generally well off in terms of education. most of them are educated at reasonable levels unlike most arabs who come here. indians who migrant the majority are not refugees unlike maybe some arabs, and other ethnic groups. there have been instances where indians have misbehaved just like any other people - like that doctor who screwed up abortions. there have heaps of mishaps with indians - do not think its only race that are prone to committ crimes and all are human all have similar body features and are equally likely to committ crime but of course the background does into play. but often you cannot help thebackground and it was our duty to help these as much as we can. instead of neglecting them.

crimes of all sorts have to do with your background but as i said we shouldnt use the background of people to discriminate against them. if we know that people are not very well educated are financially struggling then we must help these people rather than neglect - i hope you understand this.

personally i dont care what type of avatar u have.

 

[54247]

Aryan Beauty pleeeeeeeeeeeease dont say your Australian if your not.
You being a better Australian than certain people!!! pfffffffffft
Attacking a certain culture or religion ie: lebanese flagburner then generalising about the whole bluddy race is un-australian.
Scroedinger my signature is a mock of people who Talk about peace throughout the careers yet havnt done a single thing besides causing violence. Im not referring to Not believing in a state blah blah blah.

Now just for another generalisation by ARYANBEAUTY that
"never give anything back to the country that help them."
More than 90% of the thugs that cause the trouble in the lebanese community are raised aussie, taught aussie eat wheatbix and watch the cricket test matches. So therfore these thugs are a product of Australia. Now dont go down the track that there parents are animal like and encouarage them... because that is absolutely incorrect although you havnt yet gone down that track! (hopefully i dont need to substantiate)
I just wonder if you had the worlds power in your hand would you just slaughter all these arab lebs etc etc. By reading through your posts every problem, you basically link it back to "LEBANESE" "ARAB" like fair dinkum O.K you hate people or most people of ARAB origin we've got the point you dont need to prove it anymore!!

 

[Aryanbeauty]

Seeing how every criticism of them amount to hate, I can see that how futile it is for the people at large and the Government of Australia to deal with them. Some people can't just be educated or civilised.

 

[HotShot]

Seeing how every criticism of them amount to hate, I can see that how futile it is for the people at large and the Government of Australia to deal with them. Some people can't just be educated or civilised.

all people can be educated - but not necessarily civilised in the sense the definition of civilised will vary from person to person.

most people who migrant may struggle to be educated but their children and their grandchildren will have brillaint oppurtinities to be educated at a very high level. It is up to the government to ensure that everyone in australia gets highest level of education possible, but the at moment it seems education is the last thing on the NSW governmnet mind.

I dont mean just spending on schools and education - to provide top class education u need facilities which means high end telecommunications systems ( telstra are pathetic), decent public transport - reduces stress of everyday people, improve road and traffic conditions - sydney has by far one of the most roads in australia. U might argue none of these have anything to do with education - but i will say they most definitely have a significant impact.
but anyway the point in this thread is as someone each person see the flag representing something different - burning a flag is appropriate at some circumstances and people who do burn a flag should get normal punishment nothing out of the ordinary - perhaps this kid should have done some community service?

 

[ElendilPeredhil]

The Burka debate in UK started with a muslim woman refusing to remove her veil infront of her students who complained that they cannot hear her properly. IF everyone have the right to wear whatever they choose at work place, there will be no uniform or dress code in the military, police, schools , woolworths and many departmental stores world wide. You have to conform to the norms and traditions acceptable to the society you live in.

Actually that woman has said she will remove her burka in class, but not in front of men, i.e, male teachers. I don't really have a problem with that. Problem would have been solved if the school had just said 'OK' and the media had kept out of it.

And if you are not Australian then that explains the patriotic fervour. You should know most Australians don't feel that way about their flag or their country, though I would fight for my country if it was attacked, I don't get tears in my eyes when I hear the anthem, and reciting a pledge of allegiance would be ridiculously dictatorial to me. I don't know how you could do it with a straight face.

 

[turtleface]

I bet I would be a better australian than many australian who were born here, who hates this country, who despise it,who are against evrything austra;lia stands for; who only want the help of governemnt when they are in trouble and never give anything back to the country that help them.

I'm quite worried. Its starting to appear that criticism of Australia, the government or the flag is an indication of un-australian-ness.

All in all I think Australia is good, but why can't people criticise and bag aspects of australia when there genuinely is shit?

though I would fight for my country if it was attacked, I don't get tears in my eyes when I hear the anthem, and reciting a pledge of allegiance would be ridiculously dictatorial to me. I don't know how you could do it with a straight face.

lol good one

 

[Aryanbeauty]

its better to understand what your flag represent than not knowing it, its better to know your civic rights and duties instead of being so dumb. Thats the difference. In this board i saw people who already passed HSC who don't even know what their country's flag stands for. Yes I noticed you don't have patriotism for your country but that does not mean other did nt. I've seen many australian who genuinely respect their country, love their country and are patriotic. I've heard on radio, read newspaper. Just because you are a leftie and will always submit to any threat including one who threaten to kill your parents or blow up your city does not mean all australians are. In fact, John Howard, a right winger is the Prime Minister means that more australian are on the right(and better) side.

 

[onebytwo]

who threatened to kill our parents and blow up our cities?

 

[54247]

"ONEBYTWO"

No need to ask that question... Its ARYANBEAUTY talking!! lol
he seems to have this urge to always bring up negative shit that happened to a certain community then continue to refer to that incident untill ... well hard to say actually maybe NEVER. Actually half the things he says, is referrs to maybe what happens in his homeland.
sorry ARYANBEAUTY un-australian your not conforming to the majority as your mentality is indeed a minority. Your thoughts are the fuel of conflict and i only say this because your posts are sooo damn provocotive. I mean lets take for instance the flagburner. He said sorry, accepted the invitation to march with the ANZACS only to be rejected by people from with the organisation. I mean what more do you want. Drink his blood!!!!

 

[Aryanbeauty]

I believe, burning a flag, or attacking white australians on the basis of their race, or calling beach goers sluts, or burning a church fuel more conflicts than my thought.

 

[_dhj_]

I believe, burning a flag, or attacking white australians on the basis of their race, or calling beach goers sluts, or burning a church fuel more conflicts than my thought.

That is irrelevant given that individually, your thought has little to no effect on whether any of those incidents would take place. The fact is that if more people thought like you, there would be more of the incidents as antagonism among ethnic groups would merely increase, not decrease.

 

[54247]

Yes but ARYAN BEATY its a minority. Every culture, race, religion etc etc has its bad people who are idiots. You need to be able to comprehend this concept. Not only do the lebanese or the pallestinians or whatever have these rebels. All and every culture has these type of people.

DOUBLESTANDARDS as such will NOT prevent rebels like the flagburner, from re-commiting these ugly acts.

Its actually quite simple keep cursing these rebels

the more infuriated they become

The less our society prospers and becomes truly multicultural and

dhj hammered the nail on the head

"The fact is that if more people thought like you, there would be more of the incidents as antagonism among ethnic groups would merely increase, not decrease."