Forced Abortion (3 Viewers)

[bigboyjames01]

Anyways, I have nothing against what Jade suggests because I find Abortions an immoral and wrongful act.

However, the issue arises when certain segments of society believe they have the moral authority though divine text to force everyone else to tow their line of thought. If Jade believes that the govt should stop everyone from having abortions because of what she thinks is right/wrong.....FUCK YOU. But if Jade wishes to uphold the fundamental ideas of freedom and wishes not to coerce other segments of the Australia population then kudos to you.

 

[css]

Last term I went to a conference where a chick got up and said that abortion is only murder after the point when the embryo can talk.

>___<

 

[J.a.d.e :-)]

Anyways, I have nothing against what Jade suggests because I find Abortions an immoral and wrongful act.

However, the issue arises when certain segments of society believe they have the moral authority though divine text to force everyone else to tow their line of thought. well fuck you all.

Each to their own.

 

[bigboyjames01]

btw I think Jews invented abortions to Devide Christians against Christians and then take over America. I read it on an Islamic forum.

 

[Graney]

Forced abortion is not fair.

Why should such a policy only apply to the unborn?

I think we need retroactive abortion i.e. kill those who have proven themselves too stupid and useless to exist.

 

[spiny norman]

Haha this thread is so fucking ridiculous.

The first post is pretty fucked up. That the religious right still manage to lose this debate shows just how retarded they are.

 

[Tully B.]

Oh yeah, i forgot all about the original topic...
No, I think that the idea of forced abortion is repugnant.

 

[DavidBenGurion]

Oh yeah, i forgot all about the original topic...
No, I think that the idea of forced abortion is repugnant.

answer my question or concede defeat!

 

[Tully B.]

answer my question or concede defeat!

Which question? You ask a lot of questions.

 

[katie tully]

And that's fair enough. We evidently all have different points of view, most of which don't agree with mine - evident from the amount I was just negged

You don't agree with forced abortion, do you agree with abortion in general? Or are you like most people, such as myself, who believe it depends entirely on the situation?

I completely agree with abortion. I believe that the rights of a female are paramount over the rights of a foetus. I don't believe that females should be forced to have babies because somewhere, some nong believes it's murder.

You mentioned adoption before, but I think you underestimate the emotional and psychological impact it has on a person to go through a pregnancy, to go through birth and then to give up this human. Nobody should have to endure that because you, wrongfully so, think life begins at conception.

 

[J.a.d.e :-)]

I completely agree with abortion. I believe that the rights of a female are paramount over the rights of a foetus. I don't believe that females should be forced to have babies because somewhere, some nong believes it's murder.

Have I said anything about forcing women to have babies? I merely stated that Forcing them to abort is wrong. You've flipped things over completely here. We're talking about Forced abortion, NOT forced birth. Nowhere have a I said that the right to choose to abort should be taken away from women, I didn't say they shouldn't be allowed, I've only stated that, in my point of view, forcing someone to abort based on characteristics first mentioned by the OP is wrong.

You mentioned adoption before, but I think you underestimate the emotional and psychological impact it has on a person to go through a pregnancy, to go through birth and then to give up this human. Nobody should have to endure that because you, wrongfully so, think life begins at conception.

I haven't mentioned adoption once, and I didn't say that laws should be based on what I think.

 

[EpicFailGuy]

Have I said anything about forcing women to have babies? I merely stated that Forcing them to abort is wrong. You've flipped things over completely here. We're talking about Forced abortion, NOT forced birth. Nowhere have a I said that the right to choose to abort should be taken away from women, I didn't say they shouldn't be allowed, I've only stated that, in my point of view, forcing someone to abort based on characteristics first mentioned by the OP is wrong.



I haven't mentioned adoption once, and I didn't say that laws should be based on what I think.

I swear to god you just massively back tracked

 

[katie tully]

Have I said anything about forcing women to have babies? I merely stated that Forcing them to abort is wrong. You've flipped things over completely here. We're talking about Forced abortion, NOT forced birth. Nowhere have a I said that the right to choose to abort should be taken away from women, I didn't say they shouldn't be allowed, I've only stated that, in my point of view, forcing someone to abort based on characteristics first mentioned by the OP is wrong.

By disagreeing with abortion, as you did ;

Abortion is Murder.

An induced abortion is the termination of a pregnancy. The removal of a embryo/fetus from the uterus, resulting in the death of that embryo/fetus.

There may be some situations in which the subject of abortion may arise, such as if the girl in question was raped resulting in a pregnancy, or if the baby had a syndrome which meant they may not be able to survive outside the womb, or if the mother is in direct danger because of the pregnancy, but terminating a life without a real reason, such as those mentioned by you, is murder.

If the circumstances of a pregnancy do not fit into your categories of 'acceptable abortion', then yes, you are suggesting forced births. I don't see "girl got pregnant doesnt want to keep it" on your list of acceptable abortion scenarios, thus my original point is entirely valid./

I haven't mentioned adoption once, and I didn't say that laws should be based on what I think.

you're right, that was some other idiot.


So given what you've just posted, you claim that
a. Abortion is murder
but
b. Abortion is only permissible during cases of rape and cases where the foetus is not compatible with life, but not purely because a person does not want to raise a child. Isn't abortion still murder even if the girl was raped? Why does the foetus suddenly have less rights according to you, just because the mother was raped? Why does the foetus have less rights, just because there is a chance it will be born with 2 heads and a tail?

Have I said anything about forcing women to have babies?

By suggesting that abortion is murder and that women should only be allowed to abort under certain circumstances, then yes you're implying that women should be forced to have the babies.

Unless you want to retract your statement and say that all cases of abortion are permissible?

 

[mcflystargirl]

I completely agree with abortion. I believe that the rights of a female are paramount over the rights of a foetus. I don't believe that females should be forced to have babies because somewhere, some nong believes it's murder.

You mentioned adoption before, but I think you underestimate the emotional and psychological impact it has on a person to go through a pregnancy, to go through birth and then to give up this human. Nobody should have to endure that because you, wrongfully so, think life begins at conception.

it was me who mentioned adoption

I think it is better overall option then abortion, if you are pregnant with an unwanted child why not give it to someone who wants a child. terminating a pregnancy in most situations imo is selfish. of course it would be hard give up a child, but better for more people to.

 

[katie tully]

it was me who mentioned adoption

I think it is better overall option then abortion, if you are pregnant with an unwanted child why not give it to someone who wants a child. terminating a pregnancy in most situations imo is selfish. of course it would be hard give up a child, but better for more people to.

Because you obviously lack the ability to understand what an emotional and psychological effect it will have on
a. The woman forced to continue with the pregnancy, and then give birth
b. The woman forced to live knowing that they've got a child out there somewhere with people they don't know

I don't know what you guys think having a baby is like, but it's not like you can just pop it out of you, have a shower and go home.

The rights of the female > rights of a foetus

 

[J.a.d.e :-)]

So given what you've just posted, you claim that
a. Abortion is murder
but
b. Abortion is only permissible during cases of rape and cases where the foetus is not compatible with life, but not purely because a person does not want to raise a child. Isn't abortion still murder even if the girl was raped? Why does the foetus suddenly have less rights according to you, just because the mother was raped? Why does the foetus have less rights, just because there is a chance it will be born with 2 heads and a tail?

The fetus doesn't have less rights. Yes, it is still murder. I'm saying that it's in situations such as those where the idea of abortion may arise, and times like that are the only times is should be thought of, not when some chick gets pregnant and decides she just doesn't want to raise the baby, so hey, lets just kill it!

By suggesting that abortion is murder and that women should only be allowed to abort under certain circumstances, then yes you're implying that women should be forced to have the babies.

Unless you want to retract your statement and say that all cases of abortion are permissible?

Umm...

Have I said anything about forcing women to have babies? I merely stated that Forcing them to abort is wrong. You've flipped things over completely here. We're talking about Forced abortion, NOT forced birth. Nowhere have a I said that the right to choose to abort should be taken away from women, I didn't say they shouldn't be allowed, I've only stated that, in my point of view, forcing someone to abort based on characteristics first mentioned by the OP is wrong.

 

[katie tully]

Dude you're not making any fucking sense.

The fetus doesn't have less rights. Yes, it is still murder. I'm saying that it's in situations such as those where the idea of abortion may arise, and times like that are the only times is should be thought of, not when some chick gets pregnant and decides she just doesn't want to raise the baby, so hey, lets just kill it!

What? Why? Why are those any more valid reasons than just "I don't want a baby". Explain to me the difference. Why does a foetus with say, Down Syndrome or cerebral palsy or a congenital deformity have less right to live than a foetus without?
Are you suggesting that all people with disabilities have a shit quality of life and that their lives are less worth living than normal people?

The only time I can see your argument in this case being valid, is when the foetus has a disorder that makes it incompatible with life, meaning it has or will die in utero or shortly after birth. Many defects and hereditary disorders are compatible with life.

Umm...

Yeah you're not making sense.
You're essentially saying that abortion is murder (but permissible murder if the mother was raped or the kid is going to have Down Syndrome ), and that you don't believe that women who simply don't want children should be allowed to abort, as demonstrated by

times like that are the only times is should be thought of, not when some chick gets pregnant and decides she just doesn't want to raise the baby, so hey, lets just kill it!

But you're also saying that women should still be allowed to abort ... Why would you still agree with the right to abortion given you think it is murder? It's paradoxical, for one ...

 

[Tully B.]

Meh, I'm between thought on abortion. I am for women's right to choose, and yet I find people who use it simply as a substitute for contraception quite sick. Don't know enough about the science of it to know when abortion should be illegal... anyone else care to inform me?

EDIT: If I believed that abortion was murder, than I would want it illegal. But I don't, so I don't. Don't really understand JADE's opinion...

 

[katie tully]

Meh, I'm between thought on abortion. I am for women's right to choose, and yet I find people who use it simply as a substitute for contraception quite sick. Don't know enough about the science of it to know when abortion should be illegal... anyone else care to inform me?

EDIT: If I believed that abortion was murder, than I would want it illegal. But I don't, so I don't. Don't really understand JADE's opinion...

Abortion law in New South Wales is primarily based upon the Levine ruling of 1971 (itself derived from the Victorian Menhennitt ruling of 1969), which declared abortion to be legal if a doctor found 'any economic, social or medical ground or reason' that an abortion was required to avoid a 'serious danger to the pregnant woman's life or to her physical or mental health' at any point during pregnancy. This was expanded by the Kirby ruling of 1994, which extended the period during which health concerns might be considered from the duration of pregnancy to any period during the woman's life. This arguably precludes any successful prosecutions for illegal abortions

It's up to 20 weeks in NSW, iirc, and late term abortions are only permissible when there is an incompatibility with life, which can usually be detected around 24 weeks or earlier.

 

[katie tully]

And yes they might be sick and demented, but it's probably a good thing that they're not having babies.