Fraser was warned on Lebanese Muslims (1 Viewer)

[Captain Gh3y]

I think it's pretty obvious that you have a prejudice by the stance you have taken on this issue.

What prejudice exactly? So far your interpretation of my stance has been "You're a racist!" based on your lack of attention to what I actually did say and more attention to you making things up.
I'd summarise my stance as "If facts allow us to identify a problem a particular group is experiencing within the country then we should be allowed to openly discuss it and attempt to find ways that would remove the dispropoportionate stats" while yours appears to be "Just pretend it's not there".

A statistic can be correct, but not true.

That's right up there with "an over reliance on reason" or "fake but accurate", thanks for that.

Obviously. And its relevance to Australia is nil.

Do you have trouble grasping the idea of two things being analogous? As if they're a different species over there and problems like lack of incentive to assimilate, religious differences, lack of education, poor socio-economic conditions aren't factors worldwide in minority groups being disproportionately represented in crime statistics?

You didn't offer any solutions to the problems.

Well I'm not an expert in the field but I think my general suggestion of looking at the underlying causes and addressing those is better than your approach of "there's nothing you can do about it so it's better we pretend there's no problem because it might make some people racist, you're a racist for disagreeing".

We cannot deny anyone entrance to the nation of account of what group they belong to (race, ethnicity, religion or otherwise). This is known as discrimination and would lead to more consequences internationally.

Discrimination isn't inherently bad just because it's discrimination. Other countries do it all the time. Unless we have open borders and unrestricted, unmonitored immigration then it makes sense to choose who enter the country on the basis of their ability to work within the current laws of the country and integrate successfully (not necessarily in a cultural sense).

Don't step over what I meant. You know what I meant and you know that you are wrong.

If I'm wrong, why did you have to resort to making up numbers, ignoring large parts of both of my posts and making up random false assumptions to construct any argument against me, both times? I'm going by what you're writing, in your posts, on the page. Not by what I imagine you might mean. Try doing the same, and maybe writing something meaningful apart from "you're prejudiced" or "you're wrong" or "facts are racist".

Yeh you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. You're trying to justify your prejudice in some way, create hate, and offer no real viable solutions.

Please tell me this is a troll? You demonstrated a lack of ability to discriminate (!) between two different issues, making up racially stereotypical and potentially offensive [to any Asian readers] numbers out of thin air for no apparent reason, and I called you on it. Now you're using meaningless buzzwords ("create hate"? How am I trying to create hate? Hate of whom?) to attempt to create some position of moral superiority over me.

Due to white discrimination and exploitation over the years. Although racist pracitices have started to diminish, they are no gone. If you expect such communities to rejoin in terms of income etc.. After decades of exploitation then you are kidding yourself.

All I said was that the organisations exist in response to identified problems in that particular community. That doesn't preclude discrimination from having been a cause of the problems that exist. But once again, regardless of how bad the problem is, would you prefer that there was nothing done about it?

Morris Iemma in the seat of Lakemba has relevance how? Are you suggesting that if the liberals gained control of the state that something would be done and this problem would go away? What is Debnam going to do? Maybe he has as many solutions as you do (none).

I'm suggesting it was due to certain interests that nothing was done, for example, in response to the revenge attacks after the Cronulla demonstrations.

Yes, but you offered no solutions so i thought i would offer some examples of what you might suggest be a solution.

I've been saying the whole time we can
- Attempt not to import, in future, those whose values, religion, etc. are likely to be incompatible with our own laws. This is the easiest way, really.
- Look at underlying causes such as socio-economic conditions, discrimination etc. to attempt to identify why certain groups are being represented disproportionately in various statistics and then find ways to address those causes, as with the example of Aboriginal welfare groups. Another example might be positive discrimination (!) as practiced already in many western nations.

So what's your point? You said north africans commit 85% of rapes in Sweden.... Therefore, ban all North Africans from entering Australia??? You're leaving us in the dark here.

It's an indication that their culture and values are incompatible with Western Democracy, yes.

 

[Nousiainen]

Actually what annoys me is people saying stuff like "We can't say anything because we get called racist - political correctness gone mad, oh noes" - well, whilst I don't consider myself politically correct in certain cases, I've seen the results of what happens once it's ignored. In other words, it often seems like anti-pc conservatism is a front for racism.

Unsurprisingly, that's the title of a wonderful article by Felix Eldridge:

http://stoush.net/liam/401/conservative-racism-guest-post-by-felix

A couple of weeks ago the Prime Minister appeared on talkback radio and wrote two opinion pieces for Australian newspapers to spruik one message of importance to Australians. What issue deserved so much of our Prime Minister’s time?

There are a range of huge challenges facing the Australian people. Spiralling personal debt? Third world conditions in Indigenous Australia? A coherent and serious response to global warming?

The PM devoted his pen not to any of these, but to the fact that—by his numbers—less than 1% of Australian Muslims haven’t learnt English and ‘refuse to integrate’. That’s 2000 people.

Meanwhile, around the same time, the far-right ‘Australian Liberal Students Federation’ (of which our Prime Minister is a patron) held a meeting at Melbourne University to organise their campaign for student elections. It turns out that the meeting was taped, and an edited transcript has now been published, both on an Internet blog and in the Melbourne newspaper, The Sunday Herald-Sun.

Discussion at the meeting centred on the incitement of “racial tension” during the elections, and reveals the depths to which the Liberal politicians of tomorrow will stoop. Phrases like “fucking Jews” abound, as do jokes referring to middle-eastern students as “terrorists”.

It is shocking and astonishing reading, and acts to confirm what the public had seen earlier in the year, when Lateline aired footage of Liberal students chanting racist slogans at the 2005 National Union of Students conference. At the time, the increasingly irrelevant SMH columnist Miranda Devine wrote glowingly of their actions as “rocking the status quo”. For her, these people are a brave new generation of conservatives, on front lines of the war against “political correctness and reflexive left-liberal ideology”.

Since the victory of the Liberal Party at a federal level in 1996, part of the campaign to force social conservatism on every corner of Australian culture has been to attack multiculturalism and ‘political correctness’, and the conservative elite has taken to the fight with a vengeance.

In the 1980s, our current Prime Minister was shouted down even in his own party when he called for a cut in the level of Asian immigration. Ten years later, after Pauline Hanson gave her maiden speech in Parliament in which she asserted that Australia was being “swamped by Asians” he said he was glad that “people do feel able to speak a little more freely and a little more openly about what they feel.”

No doubt Howard also feels comfortable that NSW Liberal Party Leader Peter Debnam feels ‘free’ enough to pledge that, if elected, he will direct the NSW Police to arrest “200 Middle-Eastern thugs” and “charge them with anything”. In David Marr’s recent interview with him, published in the Herald, Debnam didn’t seem to understand the broader significance of his racist pledge: “I don’t see it as long term, mate.”

Whether you believe that any or all of Debnam, the PM and the Liberal students at Melbourne Uni are racist or not, their statements and actions reveal what lies beneath conservative attacks on ‘political correctness’ and multiculturalism. The racist right has re-badged itself as iconoclastic and realistic, but it’s just the same underneath.

In the Liberal Party of 2006, singling out ethnic groups on the basis of the perceived actions or thoughts of a relatively tiny number of people is not just acceptable, it is encouraged. What is presented as genuine concern for our cohesiveness as a society and a desire to speak ‘frankly’ about how one group or another doesn’t share our values is actually a carefully crafted political manoeuvre that can easily be applied to any minority.

Occasionally they misjudge just how far to go, as we saw Howard do in the 1980s, or more recently when Liberal MP Danna Vale clumsily attempted to bring race and religion into the debate on the abortion pill RU486, claiming that Australians were “aborting ourselves out of existence”, and allowing Muslims to take over.

It’s easy to see that, although the flavour of the moment is singling out Muslims, that if a politician is prepared to attack one ethnic group for political gain, they are more than likely prepared to attack another. We should hope that the events at Melbourne University will teach the next generation of Liberal politicians that the exploitation of racism and fear isn’t worth using as a political tool.

Unfortunately, it is more likely that the experience will teach them to check more thoroughly for hidden microphones.

Hell yeah! Political incorrectness!!11 Asians are swamping Ostraya, Lebanese men are raping girls EVERY day, Africans have diseases, and wogs should go back where they came from!

... honestly, I get the impression that conservative people are some of the most angriest people in this country. We used to be known for our laid back relaxed friendly attitude, but well, 10 years of the Howard legacy, and look what it's done for us. It seems that even the Keating days was heaven to where we're heading now.

This immigration/multiculturalism/assimilation debate is being made to seem much more complex than what it should be. To be honest, it's not that difficult, but conservatives seem to be TRYING to make it difficult which it should not be. Multiculturalism has been supported by the Government for 40 YEARS almost unanimously and yet, to have it thrown away seems pretty sad.

Basically all countries and cultures around the world share basic values with us. Doesn't everyone just want the best for their families and to live life as happiest as possible? That to me, does not seem like a problem. The problem though is that there have always been a hard core group of dickheads - nowadays this small group happens to be of a Muslim background yet people just love making this SMALL MINORITY of dickheads into something so sensationalist and general that is almost seems oblivious.

Everyone and I mean everyone, apart from of course this asshole minority basically just want the same things as most people want. A CHANCE for their family to make something with hard work! A fair go is not JUST an Aussie trait but it's basically a UNIVERSAL concept! Islamic values aren't really THAT different to Christian values or even certain elements of mainstream Australian values! So what I don't understand is why people willingly insist on labelling a whole group according to 1% of assholes! And maybe none of you have ever met refugees before, but I have met quite a few, and while all were sad that they had to leave their homes, ALL OF THEM WERE GLAD AND THANKFUL TO BE IN AUSTRALIA!

And by the way, why do people even say multiculturalism is a policy? As if it's a CHOICE to have multiculturalism? Whether I, or we or you like it or not, multiculturalism is a bloody reality, not a choice, not a policy; a reality!

 

[S1M0]

Actually what annoys me is people saying stuff like "We can't say anything because we get called racist - political correctness gone mad, oh noes" - well, whilst I don't consider myself politically correct in certain cases, I've seen the results of what happens once it's ignored. In other words, it often seems like anti-pc conservatism is a front for racism.

Unsurprisingly, that's the title of a wonderful article by Felix Eldridge:

http://stoush.net/liam/401/conservative-racism-guest-post-by-felix


Hell yeah! Political incorrectness!!11 Asians are swamping Ostraya, Lebanese men are raping girls EVERY day, Africans have diseases, and wogs should go back where they came from!

... honestly, I get the impression that conservative people are some of the most angriest people in this country. We used to be known for our laid back relaxed friendly attitude, but well, 10 years of the Howard legacy, and look what it's done for us. It seems that even the Keating days was heaven to where we're heading now.

This immigration/multiculturalism/assimilation debate is being made to seem much more complex than what it should be. To be honest, it's not that difficult, but conservatives seem to be TRYING to make it difficult which it should not be. Multiculturalism has been supported by the Government for 40 YEARS almost unanimously and yet, to have it thrown away seems pretty sad.

Basically all countries and cultures around the world share basic values with us. Doesn't everyone just want the best for their families and to live life as happiest as possible? That to me, does not seem like a problem. The problem though is that there have always been a hard core group of dickheads - nowadays this small group happens to be of a Muslim background yet people just love making this SMALL MINORITY of dickheads into something so sensationalist and general that is almost seems oblivious.

Everyone and I mean everyone, apart from of course this asshole minority basically just want the same things as most people want. A CHANCE for their family to make something with hard work! A fair go is not JUST an Aussie trait but it's basically a UNIVERSAL concept! Islamic values aren't really THAT different to Christian values or even certain elements of mainstream Australian values! So what I don't understand is why people willingly insist on labelling a whole group according to 1% of assholes! And maybe none of you have ever met refugees before, but I have met quite a few, and while all were sad that they had to leave their homes, ALL OF THEM WERE GLAD AND THANKFUL TO BE IN AUSTRALIA!

And by the way, why do people even say multiculturalism is a policy? As if it's a CHOICE to have multiculturalism? Whether I, or we or you like it or not, multiculturalism is a bloody reality, not a choice, not a policy; a reality!

Heh. This guy's got something here!

 

[banco55]

Basically all countries and cultures around the world share basic values with us. Doesn't everyone just want the best for their families and to live life as happiest as possible? That to me, does not seem like a problem. The problem though is that there have always been a hard core group of dickheads - nowadays this small group happens to be of a Muslim background yet people just love making this SMALL MINORITY of dickheads into something so sensationalist and general that is almost seems oblivious.

!

See this is what I think is wishful thinking, politically correct BS. It's like saying a modern day new yorker shares the same basic values as someone from Elizabethan England or Ancient Greece.

 

[Optophobia]

What prejudice exactly? So far your interpretation of my stance has been "You're a racist!" based on your lack of attention to what I actually did say and more attention to you making things up.
I'd summarise my stance as "If facts allow us to identify a problem a particular group is experiencing within the country then we should be allowed to openly discuss it and attempt to find ways that would remove the dispropoportionate stats" while yours appears to be "Just pretend it's not there".


That's right up there with "an over reliance on reason" or "fake but accurate", thanks for that.


Do you have trouble grasping the idea of two things being analogous? As if they're a different species over there and problems like lack of incentive to assimilate, religious differences, lack of education, poor socio-economic conditions aren't factors worldwide in minority groups being disproportionately represented in crime statistics?

Well I'm not an expert in the field but I think my general suggestion of looking at the underlying causes and addressing those is better than your approach of "there's nothing you can do about it so it's better we pretend there's no problem because it might make some people racist, you're a racist for disagreeing".


Discrimination isn't inherently bad just because it's discrimination. Other countries do it all the time. Unless we have open borders and unrestricted, unmonitored immigration then it makes sense to choose who enter the country on the basis of their ability to work within the current laws of the country and integrate successfully (not necessarily in a cultural sense).


If I'm wrong, why did you have to resort to making up numbers, ignoring large parts of both of my posts and making up random false assumptions to construct any argument against me, both times? I'm going by what you're writing, in your posts, on the page. Not by what I imagine you might mean. Try doing the same, and maybe writing something meaningful apart from "you're prejudiced" or "you're wrong" or "facts are racist".


Please tell me this is a troll? You demonstrated a lack of ability to discriminate (!) between two different issues, making up racially stereotypical and potentially offensive [to any Asian readers] numbers out of thin air for no apparent reason, and I called you on it. Now you're using meaningless buzzwords ("create hate"? How am I trying to create hate? Hate of whom?) to attempt to create some position of moral superiority over me.


All I said was that the organisations exist in response to identified problems in that particular community. That doesn't preclude discrimination from having been a cause of the problems that exist. But once again, regardless of how bad the problem is, would you prefer that there was nothing done about it?


I'm suggesting it was due to certain interests that nothing was done, for example, in response to the revenge attacks after the Cronulla demonstrations.

No.

I've been saying the whole time we can
- Attempt not to import, in future, those whose values, religion, etc. are likely to be incompatible with our own laws. This is the easiest way, really.

It might be the easiest way, but it's never going to happen. We have a conservative leader in charge, why isn't he implementing what you suggest? He's your friend isn't he?

- Look at underlying causes such as socio-economic conditions, discrimination etc. to attempt to identify why certain groups are being represented disproportionately in various statistics and then find ways to address those causes, as with the example of Aboriginal welfare groups. Another example might be positive discrimination (!) as practiced already in many western nations.

Are you coming or going?

It's an indication that their culture and values are incompatible with Western Democracy, yes.

So every australian shares the same values? Your assumption is that to be admitted into australia they need to meet some standard? A standard which many Australians don't adhere to.

 

[Nousiainen]

It's an indication that their culture and values are incompatible with Western Democracy, yes.

Is that why on voting day, 98% of the population vote? I believe this 98%, apart from naturalised Australian citizens, would involve immigrants that do not have a firm grasp on English, as well newly arrived refugees? I'm also guessing the 2% will be a mixture of both - does the Anglo part of that 2% also mean that western democracy is incompatible with their way of life? Also, to say that it's incompatible with western democracy would be like saying "Their culture is designed to have a dictatorship, though at times an oligarchy; this is genetic".

See this is what I think is wishful thinking, politically correct BS. It's like saying a modern day new yorker shares the same basic values as someone from Elizabethan England or Ancient Greece.

I'm Finnish-Australian and I can speak Finnish and English, I also eat traditional Finnish food, and I even listen to some Finnish music. This would be a bit to foreign to some Anglos, Asians, Mediteraneans and so on, but in general, just because it's a different culture doesn't necessarily mean that there will be different values. I find that people who attack multiculturalism probably have little experience of it, and probably end up being less likely to understand others as a result. Basically I defend it, because people seem to only think multiculturalism is a "ZOMG MUSLIM" thing, yet forget the Croatians, Greeks, Italians, Russians, Asians, Finns ( ), Latin Americans that have also played a part in it.

To me, multiculturalism is not limited to Muslims as is assumed. But yes, I'm actually aware that some interpretations of Islam have been very troublesome and really stupid. Actually, some Lebanese guy tried to provoke my friend at some park in the East which was really stupid, but then, I remember how one time on a train I overheard an Arabic father and his 2 daughters looking at the window as they spoke and said colours in both English and their language, which to me actually seemed like a nice moment and I really doubt he'd be the type of guy who'd commit a crime. But if Christian politicians ban gay marriage, do you think Islamists will oppose it? If Christian politicians censor everything on TV, do you think Islamists will oppose that? I'm not that religious and I think both religions have their fair share of lunies (I hate dealing with Evangelicals at Uni for instance), but my point was that the differences aren't spectacular. (Though they definitely do exist in other examples).

But even if you oppose the concept, even if Australia had no immigration after WWII, Aborigines would still be present. They are notorised for having an inclination to drinking and even committing crime - yet this can't be an immigration issue since they've always been here. So what could people blame it on? To blame it on genetics would be incorrect, since when has Kathy Freeman committed a crime? Personally, I'd blame it on bad socio-economic conditions which is the root of most problems here and the world.

There are two sides of the coin basically! If you just decide to stick to heads and ignore the tails, and one decides to stick to tails and ignores the heads, no one wins. It's not even about political correctness though. What I think is political correctness gone mad is something like "We will not play the national anthem on Anzac Day to appease minorities" - something which has not happened here, but which would probably be placed in someones conservative fear mongering induced rant. Often I find that once political incorrectness is set free, there begins a phase where things are taken completely out of hand. Example, while I don't support Pauline Hanson's politics, she claimed that she wasn't racist. BUT, her colleagues clearly were, making racial comments and unfounded claims. One person begins "mildly" politically incorrect (or so she seemed), while the others took it way out of hand.

Also, apart from Europeans and Muslims, there are also Asians, who I'd say have integrated very well in Australian society. You only have to walk through several Universities in Sydney to realise that people do get along, despite the image Today Tonight would like to assume exists: "They're changing OUR way of life, we will be swamped by them, Australia will be majority Muslim, Asians are taking our jobs" - etc. None of those are true, none of those will ever be true, we have little to worry about, and we should just go on with our lives, fall in love or make friends, do hobbies, etc. Life is too short to hate or be hostile, and half the problems are sensationalised; at least in Australia. Canada which is reknowned for being multicultural has small problems regarding its immigrants but that will probably never be mentioned here; Europe and its notorious connection with immigrants seems to take centre stage here, as opposed to an English speaking country that has much more in common with Australia (two countries founded on immigration) as opposed to other European countries which differ greatly in terms of political landscape.

That's it for me anyway - this is way too much politics for one day. I swear, another forum I visit has the nicest Aussies you'll ever find. Some political debates get interesting, but never will you once see things taken to the utmost extreme (well, most of the time ). It gave me an impression that "Thank God, we ARE a nice nation!" but when I come here and see such angry comments, God, it really annoys me knowing people CHOOSE to be angry. 4 million people in one city, not everyone is the same. That's it!

 

[Captain Gh3y]

Are you coming or going?

What's wrong with trying to help improve the lives that we've already got here? Clearly you can't deport thousands of people who are citizens of the country. It makes sense to help them integrate at the same time as being more selective about who we let in the country.

So every australian shares the same values? Your assumption is that to be admitted into australia they need to meet some standard? A standard which many Australians don't adhere to.

The standard is mostly what's in the constitution and laws of the country. Every Australian does not share the same values. In fact there is a sort of standard, here it is from the Government itself:

All Australians are expected to have an overriding loyalty to Australia and its people, and to respect the basic structures and principles underwriting our democratic society.

These principles are:

* The Constitution
* Parliamentary democracy
* Freedom of speech and religion
* English as the national language
* The rule of law
* Acceptance and equality.

So you can see that doesn't dictate personal values or religion or culture or anything like that. Nor is it impossible that there are cultures in the world that are largely incompatible with these ideals.

 

[Gurlpower]

if anyone wants to see why multriculturalism doesnt work for muslims look at this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlDztjPzvSM

check out 4.45 of the clip 'on the beach the lebanese will scatter body parts of aussies friends and family, just like gallipoli, we will bring up memories"


these people are filth, and will never treat aussies, asians, christians or jews with any respect. in 20 years we wil have a full scale war.

they bring the hatred upon themselves, they just love to fight.

 

[withoutaface]

Very true. They usually pick around 1000 or so from a particular group and express those 1000 as the country's opinion, when it really isn't.

Um these stats are ones of the total number of convictions for rape. They are not a limited sample, and take into account the whole of NSW.

 

[Gurlpower]

i find it absurd and even a little insulting that there are people here justifying and downplaying the obvious actions of muslims here and in france.

i mean you can argue out of just about anything these days.


use some common sense and if you cant see that muslims are not exactly model citizens then we are doomed.

 

[S1M0]

if anyone wants to see why multriculturalism doesnt work for muslims look at this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlDztjPzvSM

check out 4.45 of the clip 'on the beach the lebanese will scatter body parts of aussies friends and family, just like gallipoli, we will bring up memories"


these people are filth, and will never treat aussies, asians, christians or jews with any respect. in 20 years we wil have a full scale war.

they bring the hatred upon themselves, they just love to fight.

Yeah these guys are more like fundementalist muslims rather than moderate/secular muslims and Christians.

Just please bear in mind that not all arabic guys are like this - and that there are genuinely good guys too (Egyptians are a good example! ).

Um these stats are ones of the total number of convictions for rape. They are not a limited sample, and take into account the whole of NSW.

My mistake.

 

[Gurlpower]

there are some great arabs around, some truly interesting and funny charactes who i consider my friends.

that said, i cant see islamic or african immigration being beneficial to this country overall.

there are plenty eastern europeans ready to come here who have a better track record of adapting to this society. muslims have never adapted.

 

[withoutaface]

Actually what annoys me is people saying stuff like "We can't say anything because we get called racist - political correctness gone mad, oh noes" - well, whilst I don't consider myself politically correct in certain cases, I've seen the results of what happens once it's ignored. In other words, it often seems like anti-pc conservatism is a front for racism.

Unsurprisingly, that's the title of a wonderful article by Felix Eldridge:

http://stoush.net/liam/401/conservative-racism-guest-post-by-felix


Hell yeah! Political incorrectness!!11 Asians are swamping Ostraya, Lebanese men are raping girls EVERY day, Africans have diseases, and wogs should go back where they came from!

I don't have a problem with Asians, nor with "wogs", nor with the bulk of Lebanese. But there are issues in the community that need addressing, not by sending them to Lebanon, but through proper dialogue with the community.

... honestly, I get the impression that conservative people are some of the most angriest people in this country.

Um, I'm not a conservative, and what does anger have to do with anything?

We used to be known for our laid back relaxed friendly attitude, but well, 10 years of the Howard legacy, and look what it's done for us. It seems that even the Keating days was heaven to where we're heading now.

The Keating days was heaven?

This immigration/multiculturalism/assimilation debate is being made to seem much more complex than what it should be. To be honest, it's not that difficult, but conservatives seem to be TRYING to make it difficult which it should not be. Multiculturalism has been supported by the Government for 40 YEARS almost unanimously and yet, to have it thrown away seems pretty sad.

What is multiculturalism? Define it for me and I'll tell you whether I support it or not, and if the latter case, what the exact problems with it are. I'd also appreciate it if you'd stop referring to me as a conservative.

Basically all countries and cultures around the world share basic values with us.

Including (I think it was) Pakistan up until recently, when they had a law that a charge of rape could not be brought against a man unless the woman who was raped had 4 male witnesses? That doesn't exactly seem compatible.

Doesn't everyone just want the best for their families and to live life as happiest as possible?

You've implied that an individual needs a family to validate themselves. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that a conservative trait?

That to me, does not seem like a problem. The problem though is that there have always been a hard core group of dickheads - nowadays this small group happens to be of a Muslim background yet people just love making this SMALL MINORITY of dickheads into something so sensationalist and general that is almost seems oblivious.

???
I've said we should address the issues, not deport the entire Muslim population.

Everyone and I mean everyone, apart from of course this asshole minority basically just want the same things as most people want. A CHANCE for their family to make something with hard work! A fair go is not JUST an Aussie trait but it's basically a UNIVERSAL concept! Islamic values aren't really THAT different to Christian values or even certain elements of mainstream Australian values! So what I don't understand is why people willingly insist on labelling a whole group according to 1% of assholes! And maybe none of you have ever met refugees before, but I have met quite a few, and while all were sad that they had to leave their homes, ALL OF THEM WERE GLAD AND THANKFUL TO BE IN AUSTRALIA!

You just committed the same fallacy you accused others of using, being that of taking a handful of people and extrapolating to the rest of the refugee population.

And by the way, why do people even say multiculturalism is a policy? As if it's a CHOICE to have multiculturalism? Whether I, or we or you like it or not, multiculturalism is a bloody reality, not a choice, not a policy; a reality!

What is multiculturalism?

 

[S1M0]

there are some great arabs around, some truly interesting and funny charactes who i consider my friends.

that said, i cant see islamic or african immigration being beneficial to this country overall.

there are plenty eastern europeans ready to come here who have a better track record of adapting to this society. muslims have never adapted.

Yeah, but the people who want to migrate into this country suffer from a lot of persecution and suffering in Africa, or in the middle east. The Copts (The Coptic Orthodoxians of Egypt) are an example. They're genuinely nice and peaceful people, except that many can't come into this country and yet the Government has decided to allow a bunch of fundementalist muslims - the kind who persecute christians, burn bibles and destroy churches - into this country. Its just plain idiocy and a mistake i'm quite sure the Austalian government has regretted.

 

[Jordan.J]

if anyone wants to see why multriculturalism doesnt work for muslims look at this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlDztjPzvSM

check out 4.45 of the clip 'on the beach the lebanese will scatter body parts of aussies friends and family, just like gallipoli, we will bring up memories"


these people are filth, and will never treat aussies, asians, christians or jews with any respect. in 20 years we wil have a full scale war.

they bring the hatred upon themselves, they just love to fight.

Bahahaha

So an idiot makes a stupid song and this proves your point how?

You get idiots everywhere:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rn6OipVUhWM&mode=related&search=

 

[Gurlpower]

Bahahaha

So an idiot makes a stupid song and this proves your point how?

You get idiots everywhere:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rn6OipVUhWM&mode=related&search=

you thnk this is an isolated deranged group of individuals thought?

then your wrong (just look at the messages of support they get)

this is a growing and common mindset not seen previously in this country.

 

[ihavenothing]

That video has the potential to lower IQs significantly...quite laughable really but the kind of people who distribute and compose this material should be arrested for inciting racial hatred

 

[Captain Gh3y]

Is that why on voting day, 98% of the population vote? I believe this 98%, apart from naturalised Australian citizens, would involve immigrants that do not have a firm grasp on English, as well newly arrived refugees? I'm also guessing the 2% will be a mixture of both - does the Anglo part of that 2% also mean that western democracy is incompatible with their way of life? Also, to say that it's incompatible with western democracy would be like saying "Their culture is designed to have a dictatorship, though at times an oligarchy; this is genetic".

Well you see my issue isn't with whether they vote or not, it's more the principle of whether it's okay to rape someone because they're white and not wearing a tent.

And to add to that I should make it really clear that I never mentioned genetics or race, just religion, culture and values. You have to look at all of those. In fact you seem to be the first person in this thread to imply culture is genetic, even if it's through projecting that onto me (by making up something I didn't say then refuting it).

 

[withoutaface]

To anyone who says only an absolute minority of Muslims support the Sheik's coimments, take a look at muslimvillage forums after it was said. I'm lead to believe the majority of them are moderates, yet they practically all defended him.

 

[ihavenothing]

They all praise him blindly and even though the tone is moderate I have heard some sickly remarks about homosexuals and secularists and Islam reformers.