HARRY POTTER & THE HBP - what did you think? (SPOILERS!) (2 Viewers)

[klh]

Well, if u like reading try this
It is a huge list of quotes that are analysed to show that snape isnt evil

thanks, any other links to otehr sites would entertain me greatly!

 

[Captain Gh3y]

I can't believe I actually read all that.

*is now convinced snape is good*

 

[Mini]

Has anyone ever considered that perhaps Harry is a horcrux?

think that was definitely ruled out.
finished uni exams today, whew - so spent time reading those theories. some of them rock - the one about why dumbledore trusts snape links really well.

two years till the seventh book
but only a week till the fourth movie!

 

[Gummy_bear]

Did anyone else notice a link between snapes 'levicorpus' curse and the way DD 'died'.
I mean, in all other cases the people being cursed did not jump into the air, they just dies straight away, yet DD did jump. Do you think maybe that the 'levicorpus' spell could be what snape was thinking in his head, as it is a silent spell, even tho he said the other one.

(i havnt actually read the whole book yet, im up to chapter 13, but silly me decided to read all the theroes before i read the book, which i just got off my brother. But then again, now i can read it and analys some of it at the same time. I do wish i had waited to read the theroes tho.)

 

[PaleReflection]

If Dumbledore isn't dead, then why is Snape still alive?

If Draco's task was to kill Dumbledore, when Snape made the Unbreakable Vow with Narcissa, it meant that if Snape didn't do all he could to help Draco complete his task then he would die instantly.

I haven't read all of dumbledoreisnotdead.com, so if someone can explain a theory to me I'd like to hear it.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

If Dumbledore isn't dead, then why is Snape still alive?

If Draco's task was to kill Dumbledore, when Snape made the Unbreakable Vow with Narcissa, it meant that if Snape didn't do all he could to help Draco complete his task then he would die instantly.

I haven't read all of dumbledoreisnotdead.com, so if someone can explain a theory to me I'd like to hear it.

Well, the stuff I read the other night had some fairly strong evidence that Draco's task was actually just to let the death eaters into hogwarts.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

Remember, we are not sure what Voldemort’s orders actually ARE. They COULD be to kill Dumbledore. If that’s the case, perhaps they had time to work out a plan and Dumbledore isn’t really dead (more on that later…) but what if the plan was actually for Malfoy to let the other Death Eaters into Hogwarts via the Vanishing Cabinet? And then the role of the Death Eaters was to take on Dumbledore? Getting Death Eaters into Hogwarts has never been done before. After all, Harry is Voldemort’s biggest threat at this point. What good would killing Dumbledore do? Why not just kill Harry?

(P 125-6, Ch 6) Malfoy ditches his mum and is overheard in Borgin and Burkes

“…you know how to fix it?”

“Possibly,’ said Borgin, in a tone that suggested he was unwilling to commit himself. “I’ll need to see it though. Why don’t you bring it into the shop?”

“I can’t,” said Malfoy. “It’s got to stay put. I just need you to tell me how to do it.”

Harry saw Borgin lick his slips nervously.

“Well, without seeing it, I must say it will be a very difficult job, perhaps impossible. I couldn’t guarantee anything.”

…”And don’t forget to keep that one safe, I'll need it.”

“Perhaps you’d like to take it now?”

“No, of course I wouldn’t, you stupid little man, how would I look carrying that down the street? Just don’t sell it…Not a word to anyone, Borgin, and that includes my mother, understand?”

Assuming that Narcissa knows what the plan is and that she would want to help Draco to keep him safe, why would Draco tell Borgin not to tell Narcissa? Perhaps she thinks he has one assignment, but he’s deceiving her and getting to the real assignment, letting the other Death Eaters in.

At this point, having not read further, we don’t know what he is referring to, but we can fathom a guess after completing the book that he is referring to the vanishing cabinet. One of them was broken (Montague ended up coming out in a toilet), so I assume it was the cabinet at Hogwarts – else Borgin could get to it to fix it. However, this does leave the question – why didn’t the cabinet transport Harry anywhere when he hid from the Malfoys inside it in CoS?

(P 151-2, Ch 7) When Harry is observing the Slytherins under his invisibility cloak on the Hogwarts Express, Malfoy is bragging that he is moving on to bigger and better things with Voldemort. Zabini questions him, claiming Malfoy is only sixteen and not even a qualified wizard. Malfoy retorts

“Maybe (Voldemort) doesn’t care if I’m qualified. Maybe the job he wants me to do isn’t something that you need to be qualified for,” said Malfoy quietly.

Just a question: Wouldn’t you need to be uber-qualified to take on Dumbledore? Why would he send a child to do it? Letting the other Death Eaters into Hogwarts would be something he could do.

zomg i told YOU something about hp

*hides*

 

[PaleReflection]

That makes sense.

BUT

If Draco's real task was to let the Death Eaters into Hogwarts, why the failed attempts to kill Dumbledore through the year (locket, wine)? What would be the point of Draco doing that?

*gets book*

'Ingenious,' said Dumbledore. 'Yet ... forgive me ... where are they now? You seem unsupported.'

'They met some of your guard. They're having a fight down below. They won't be long ... I came on ahead. I - I've got a job to do.'

'You don't know what I'm capable of,' said Malfoy more forcefully, 'you don't know what I've done!'

'Oh, yes, I do,' said Dumbledore mildly. 'You almost killed Katie Bell and Ronald Weasley. You have been trying, with increasing desparation, to kill me all year.'

When the Death Eaters finally arrive, they do not kill DD instantly, even though they could have. Rather, they wait for Draco to do it. Fenrir offers--

'I could do you for afters, Dumbledore...'

'No,' said the fourth Death Eater sharply. He had a heavy, brutal-looking face. 'We've got orders. Draco's got to do it. Now Draco, and quickly.'

And further on...

'I don't even know why the Dark Lord's bothering to kill yeh! Come on, Draco, do it!'

And then, when Snape appears...

'We've got a problem, Snape,' said the lumpy Amycus, whose eyes and wand were fixed alike upon Dumbledore, 'the boy doesn't seem able-'

And then Snape kills him. I mean, he says Avada Kedavra... the only thing out of the ordinary is when Dumbledore is "blasted into the air", which even then might have been done by JKR for dramatic effect.

Either way the above quotes make it quite apparent that Draco's task was to kill Dumbledore.

 

[Blissed]

Why wouldn't dumbledore tell harry about his plans with snape? Why keep it a secret?

 

[Blissed]

Dumbledore has got to be dead because Harry saw his portrait in the Headmaster's Office and this can only happen to dead Hogwarts headmasters.

 

[The_highwayman]

If Dumbledore isn't dead, then why is Snape still alive?

If Draco's task was to kill Dumbledore, when Snape made the Unbreakable Vow with Narcissa, it meant that if Snape didn't do all he could to help Draco complete his task then he would die instantly.

I haven't read all of dumbledoreisnotdead.com, so if someone can explain a theory to me I'd like to hear it.

This is from the "Unanswered Questions" section of dumbledoreisnotdead.com and attempts to give an answer (not watertight) for that question

1. If Snape Didn't Fulfill The Unbreakable Vow, Why Isn't He Dead?

There are three unanswered aspects to this question.

First, do unbreakable vows have a time limit? It's unlikely they do, because you'd think it would have to be stated when the vow was made, and no such time limit was set.

But if they don't have time limits, then it's sort of hard to enforce an unbreakable vow, isn't?

"Hey! You didn't fulfill your promise! You're dead!" "No wait! I just haven't gotten around to it, you can't kill me yet!"

Second, I believe if you re-read all of chapter 2, you will see that the exact details of Draco's task are never spoken outloud in that scene, we only learn of the details later.

If the exact nature of what Snape's promising to do are not spoken exactly, but possibly only an understanding between the parties, what promise is he held to, exactly? Can he be held to details of a vow that weren't expressly stated? Am I watching too many lawyer shows on TV?

One of Draco's main tasks was to fix the vanishing cabinet so he could sneak his Death Eater pals into Hogwarts. Perhaps that's what Snape vowed to help with, and in that case, Draco suceeeded, so Snape's off the hook.

Third, this unanswerable question is based on the assumption that Dumbledore isn't really dead, so Snape didn't kill him, so he didn't fulfill the vow.

But what if the person you made the vow with thinks you fulfilled it? The world, including Narcissa and Bellatrix (and you, possibly, up until you read this site! thinks that Dumbledore is dead. So does that fulfill Snapes vow?

This one is possibly unanswerable until we can either dig out some more clues buried elsewhere in the book, or possibly we won't know until book 7.

__________________________________

Dumbledore has got to be dead because Harry saw his portrait in the Headmaster's Office and this can only happen to dead Hogwarts headmasters.

2. Doesn't Dumbledore's Portrait Mean That He's Dead?

Does it state anywhere in a Harry Potter book that you have to be dead to be on the wall in the headmaster's office? I can't prove this, but I think it's just more likely the only requirement is you have to be a former headmaster, and it just so happens all of the former headmasters previous to Dumbledore are currently dead.

The book says:

...a new portrait had joined the ranks of the dead headmasters and headmistresses of Hogwarts: Dumbledore was slumbering in a golden frame above his desk, his half-moon spectacles perched upon his crooked nose, looking peaceful and untroubled. (HBP pg 626/584)

Yes, we see it says Dumbledore joined the ranks of the dead headmasters. But that doesn't necessarily mean he is dead, it just means the others of the ranks he was joining were dead.

 

[The_highwayman]

the only thing out of the ordinary is when Dumbledore is "blasted into the air", which even then might have been done by JKR for dramatic effect.

What convinces me most that Dumbledore isnt dead is:
i) the chapter title "the lightning struck tower" which most obviously refers to Trelawneys tarot card but could actually be a suggestion that Snape's spell thingy was just a few flashes of light rather than the actual avada kedavra.
ii) the huge emphasis on Non-verbal spells throughout this entire book when they arent mentioned in any of the others. What Snape says and what he is THINKING could be two entirely different things.

 

[PaleReflection]

What convinces me most that Dumbledore isnt dead is:
i) the chapter title "the lightning struck tower" which most obviously refers to Trelawneys tarot card but could actually be a suggestion that Snape's spell thingy was just a few flashes of light rather than the actual avada kedavra.

I interpreted the word 'lightning' as simply being a metaphor for the Avada Kedavra curse, i.e. it resulted in Harry's lightning bolt scar.

 

[meLoncoLLie]

No way, there are too many scenes in which both Dumbledore and Fawkes are present.

 

[The_highwayman]

Dumbledore doesnt have to be FAWKES the pheonix, but he could be A pheonix.

 

[Blissed]

Really the more you think about it, the more it makes sense...dumbledore isnt dead, he is a pheonix..he flew off and picked up his wand.

omg.. im going fucking nuts (welcome to the life of a post hsc student)

What about that body of his at the funeral? He can't have turned into a phoenix if his body's present infront of everyone. Although, professor McGonagall doesn't seem to be as touched by Dumbledore's death as I thought she would - perhaps she knew about dumbledore's plans with snape?

 

[Captain Gh3y]

Dumbledore was abducted by aliens, just like Elvis and Hitler.

 

[klh]

just get over with it...he has passed on. explain the portrait if you will? it is supposed to show those of past headmasters yes? no offence but it seems that he has died, although there are mor eplausible theories such as snape using a non-verbal spell and using the avada for keeping his cover....but the portrait explains that to me...

 

[Sonic]

no seriously i found it really wierd that nobody placed to much signifigance on his death.....
this is Dumbledore ppl he's important.. what is harry gonna do without him???? i really think the last book will contain a MATRIX STYLE ending... watch the movie and u'll see what i mean.. oh and about the Slloooooowwww writing it's more of and economical thing she probably has it in her hands already but is playing with us!!!!!!!

 

[Blissed]

economical! wtf for, she is already richer than the queen!!
whats a matrix style ending? ive only seen like the first one, and still i dont remember what its about.

She wants all her books to be best-sellers so there's always going to be this gap at the end of her books so that she can make sure that people will want to purchase them upon their release to find out what will happen next. Unlike the Philosopher's Stone and the Chamber of Secrets with a clear/defined ending, the ending of books 4/5/6 all suggest that there will be more to come soon.. so I do agree yes it is partly economical. She can be richer than the queen, but she can never be too rich, can she?