If You're a Christian, Muslim or Jew - You are Wrong (3 Viewers)

[veterandoggy]

im posting in the criticism of islam thread, and this one was open as well. ok, maybe i should close this window just in case...

 

[erawamai]

There is no man in the sky sitting in a chair to the right hand of the father judging us all.

HE is nothing more than a glorified sociologial rule book for the weak to fall back on for guidance.

We laugh at those who used to worship the sun, later the rocks.....

...........

 

[SashatheMan]

the idiot who made that website placed the words into his own: they are not word for word. so youll have to give me a sentence and ill have to tell you what itr really is

whoops, wrong thread, but the website is http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/cruelty/long.html if you got curious.

he didnt place the words in him own sentence. he summorised it, but then gave the read quran verse, if you click on the verse number

 

[veterandoggy]

yes, but we cant even give direct translations from arabic to english without fear of mistranslating it sometimes, let alone 'summarisations'

just like a few days ago on ten news a lady who was injured from thew jordan bombings was talking about how loud the bomb was (i listened to it twice), but the bitch of a translator said something like "they have killed my father and brother. may allah not forgive them"

 

[SashatheMan]

yes, but we cant even give direct translations from arabic to english without fear of mistranslating it sometimes, let alone 'summarisations'

just like a few days ago on ten news a lady who was injured from thew jordan bombings was talking about how loud the bomb was (i listened to it twice), but the bitch of a translator said something like "they have killed my father and brother. may allah not forgive them"

mate if you dont like that site, look up the verse you want , and search for yuorself and find very similar translation that uses a few differnt words, but still has the same meaning . dont use the excuse of the site not being able to translate , to the fact that it states stuff that makes the quran look bad.

 

[veterandoggy]

no, it does make it worse. if you had a translated quran (non- muslims and new converts can get it free from most islamic bookstores) they give the true translations and sayings and actions of the prophet in relation to the verse. it also has a glossary which gives meanings to the words which cant be properly translated.

i am sure that alot of people would care if someone gave a summarised translation of their books which wouldnt express the true meanings of what they intended on saying, then a couple billion people reading the summarisation and judging their book based on that.

 

[SashatheMan]

no, it does make it worse. if you had a translated quran (non- muslims and new converts can get it free from most islamic bookstores) they give the true translations and sayings and actions of the prophet in relation to the verse. it also has a glossary which gives meanings to the words which cant be properly translated.

i am sure that alot of people would care if someone gave a summarised translation of their books which wouldnt express the true meanings of what they intended on saying, then a couple billion people reading the summarisation and judging their book based on that.

i think it can be argued that people like you who are fanatical about the quran and will defend it for everythign its got, will describe everything in it with euphomism. You will deny anything wrong with it and explain the verses in your fairy descriptions. This is exactly the opposite what you say the website does.

If you dotn want to , dotn read the summory, just skip it and read the actual verse, and i am sure youll find the verse states exactly what the summary sais. Btu then you will argue without evidence that its misinterprets everything

 

[veterandoggy]

man, you wont understand, its like you've barricaded your mind from all speech from me...

the summaries are tweaked a little, so that they retain some meaning, but are still moving in favour of what the author of that website is trying to prove.

oh forget it. we're going in circles...

 

[SashatheMan]

anyway . this thread was originally a debate about religion as a whole, not just islam.

 

[veterandoggy]

was the aim of this thread to prove why islam/christianity/jeudaism is right, or that aetheism/other religions are wrong?

 

[SashatheMan]

there is no god. thats the argument. and an argument in my mind that couldnt be beaten

 

[khandigirl]

Why cant we just settle to allow people to believe what they wish to believe?
There is no right or wrong religion, or lack thereof. There is no justification for saying that all terrorists are muslim, as there are extremists of all religions. If I was to ask my grandmother and my own mother what their idea of a terrorist was, they would say something like Irish Catholic EXTREMISTS. This is not to say they dislike Irish Catholics, but it is in attempt to prove that all religions have extremists, and even then, not all extremists then follow through to become terrorists or war-loving people, but it is to demonstrate that no one can generalise a person or type of people based on the actions of a few.

I am currently converting religion, and this was a massive move in my family of catholics, yet when they sat down and spoke to me and other people on the subject, they changed their stance, and have grown to accept other religions.

Judaism also teaches you to be tolerant of other people and religions - so to throw this in their faces and say that their beliefs are wrong...

well... how can something you believe so strongly be wrong?

my 2 cents worth... not trying to incite anger here... just... ppl! try to be a little more open minded!

 

[Generator]

What about evangelicalism? Such a strong framework of practicising one's belief requires that a person does all within their power to spread the word, yet isn't such an attempt at spreading the word essentially an act that displays a total disrepect for another person's beliefs?

Someone believing in a religion doesn't mean that it's right, it merely means that someone believes in it, and there's nothing to be gained by letting debates of this nature lie merely because the differences cannot be reconciled - in fact, such debates are of great importance in that the discussions allow for different points of view to be aired within an environment that allows people to understand the points of view that others provide, be that understanding superficial or rather comprehensive in natture.

 

[khandigirl]

Please do not think that I am disrespecting other peoples opinions, I am merely trying to say that the arguments i have seen escalate on this site, from similar discussions are needless... people are obviously more than entitled to opinions, but i dont believe in trying to disrespect others for their beliefs...

what im trying to say is that people are entitled to believe what they want and think what they want, but trying to rip people apart... eh its too late and I do not wish to get into an argument. as i said before, I was merely stating my 2 cents worth.

With evangelicalism, no i dont not have an issue spreading their word, but I do believe that forcibly trying to convert someone to your religion or to believeing your religion is correct, is wrong...

That is my opinion and i welcome others to agree or disagree... but if you disagree... lets just... hmmm... agree to disagree... we all have more important things to be concerned about than arguing with people we dont know, on a forum... if our opinion is heard, there is no real reason to argue

 

[Generator]

You may find it easy to let potentially contentious, derogatory or flat-out incorrect statements stand, but as you no doubt know, others are not as accepting of alternative points of view when it comes to religion (or lack thereof). So with that in mind, I suggest that you just sit back and enjoy the ride, because the argument/s will never end (and rightly so).

 

[khandigirl]

LOL Ive already allowed the fact that im hoping for something that will never happen... I just was hoping that some of the meaningless rubbish and stupid arguments that go on forever in circles could be avoided and wanted to see if that was true

anyway... whats your perspective on the article?
lol

 

[SashatheMan]

LOL Ive already allowed the fact that im hoping for something that will never happen... I just was hoping that some of the meaningless rubbish and stupid arguments that go on forever in circles could be avoided and wanted to see if that was true

anyway... whats your perspective on the article?
lol

the article. yes yes , we all remember the article. lol.

seriously, i think that guy speaks alot of truth, regarding the silly idea of religion

 

[heybraham]

What about evangelicalism? Such a strong framework of practicising one's belief requires that a person does all within their power to spread the word, yet isn't such an attempt at spreading the word essentially an act that displays a total disrepect for another person's beliefs?

Someone believing in a religion doesn't mean that it's right, it merely means that someone believes in it, and there's nothing to be gained by letting debates of this nature lie merely because the differences cannot be reconciled - in fact, such debates are of great importance in that the discussions allow for different points of view to be aired within an environment that allows people to understand the points of view that others provide, be that understanding superficial or rather comprehensive in natture.

in light of your first paragraph about 'evangelism' i cant help but laugh at your pseudo-intellectual attempt that follows....there is no 'disrespect' in evangelism you dipshit, its just about presenting new doors to new people, an alternative road to spirituality. a lot of evangelists go to countries despite the fact they will be persecuted if caugh, and for what? to disrespect the beliefs of the system? get your shit straight, ignorance is not a weapon in debate.

what's the point of debating, when your opponent is clearly a tool.

 

[erawamai]

.there is no 'disrespect' in evangelism you dipshit, its just about presenting new doors to new people, an alternative road to spirituality.
.

Pressurised evangelism can be disrespectful. The assumption is that people who do not share your views are unfortunate and need to be saved. The implication is that everyother belief system is wrong and those poor souls who believe anything else are poor unfortunate souls that believe wrong things that are clearly inferior. Pressure evangelism is disrespectful. It also shows a level of spiritual insecurity on the part of the evangerliser.

Evangelism usually only works on those who need some peer support or those looking for friends. For those a little less needly the experience of being evangelised feels paternalistic iin a 'we know best no matter what' way.

 

[Generator]

in light of your first paragraph about 'evangelism' i cant help but laugh at your pseudo-intellectual attempt that follows....there is no 'disrespect' in evangelism you dipshit, its just about presenting new doors to new people, an alternative road to spirituality. a lot of evangelists go to countries despite the fact they will be persecuted if caugh, and for what? to disrespect the beliefs of the system? get your shit straight, ignorance is not a weapon in debate.

what's the point of debating, when your opponent is clearly a tool.

Refer to iamaware's post.