MedVision ad

Is Japanese originate from chinese?.... (1 Viewer)

Seung.Hur

H2O
Joined
May 28, 2004
Messages
36
Location
Sydney
Gender
Male
HSC
2005
Lol. Yeah, you'll occasionally see Chinese characters here and there in Korea as a shorthand for things, occasionally in newspapers. Koreans learn some of that Chinese form language in Korean high school, and some of the old words are still in the language, so for example there are two ways of saying and writing things like numbers in Korean; which I note is a bit different from the Chinese. Consider the pre-800s Korean as another Chinese dialect at the time :)

How do I know? 我是韩国人啊!
 

supercharged

Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2005
Messages
789
Gender
Male
HSC
N/A
Seung.Hur said:
Lol. Yeah, you'll occasionally see Chinese characters here and there in Korea as a shorthand for things, occasionally in newspapers. Koreans learn some of that Chinese form language in Korean high school, and some of the old words are still in the language, so for example there are two ways of saying and writing things like numbers in Korean; which I note is a bit different from the Chinese. Consider the pre-800s Korean as another Chinese dialect at the time :)

How do I know? 我是韩国人啊!
My dad has visited Korea in the 1970s and he said about a 1/3 of the signs back then were in chinese characters. Alot of older Koreans can fully read and write in Chinese as well as Korean.

Chinese characters used in Korean is called Hanja, Kanji for Japanese and was used in Vietnam too until France took over it and romanised the language. I think so as well, but totally sure about Korean, but Japanese counting 1 to ten sounds fairly similiar to chinese 1 to 10. ie ich, ni, san, shi (jap) Vs yi, er, san, si (chinese)

@(^0^): you forgot MANDARIN (official) chinese: dianhua for telephone! :)
 

neo o

it's coming to me...
Joined
Aug 16, 2002
Messages
3,294
Gender
Male
HSC
2004
Correct me if I'm wrong (and it may have been cherryblossom who said this to me, I don't remember) but someone has put me under the impression that unlike Chinese etc, Japanese isn't a Sino language but is more closely related to some pacific languages...
 

neo o

it's coming to me...
Joined
Aug 16, 2002
Messages
3,294
Gender
Male
HSC
2004
LMF^^ said:
I believe Japanese iz derived from the Chinese language.
Which form of Chinese would that be? Catonese? Mandarin? Hokkien? One of the other 12 or so dialects? Disregarding the fact that the Japanese have had their own national language ever since they were unified in the 7th century BC (+ a number of indigenous languages from conquered tribes, when there wasn't "Chinese" per se but a whole hodge-podge of dialects and other languages spoken in What is now Korea, China and Mongolia). JAPANESE ISN'T A TONAL LANGUAGE. So, any similarity or derivation between some form of Sino language and Modern Japanese happened a very fucking long time ago, or not at all :p.

So really, the most people can say, and this is conjecture anyway, is that there is a loose connection between Modern Japanese and Korean.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_isolate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_language
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_language
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japonic_language

hao ma?

wiki said:
Historical linguists who specialize in Japanese agree that it is one of the two members of the Japonic language family, but do not agree further about the origins of the language. An older view, still widely held by non-specialists, is that Japanese is a language isolate.

As for its relation to other languages, there are several competing theories (presented roughly in descending order of likelihood):

Japanese is a relative of extinct languages spoken by historic cultures in what are now the Korean peninsula and Manchuria. The best attested of these is the language of Goguryeo (a.k.a. Koguryo), with the more poorly-attested languages of Baekje (a.k.a. Paekche) and Buyeo (a.k.a Puyo) hypothesized to also be related. The limited data on these languages, as well as these cultures' historic ties, are the primary evidence.
Japanese is a relative of other Asian languages. This theory maintains that Japanese is related to other East Asian languages such as Korean (and possibly the Sino-Tibetan languages).
Japanese is a relative of the Altaic language family. Other languages in this group include Mongolian, Tungusic, Turkish, and sometimes, Korean. Evidence for this theory lies in the fact that like Turkish and Korean, Japanese is an agglutinative language. Japanese also has (phonologically distinctive) pitch (called pitch accent in linguistics), similar to Serbian/Croatian. Additionally, there are a suggestive number of apparently regular correspondences in basic vocabulary, such as ishi "stone" to Turkic daş, yo "four" to Turkic dört.
Phonological and lexical similarities to Austronesian languages have been noted.
Japanese is a kind of creole, with an Altaic substratum and an Austronesian superstratum, or vice versa. It has an Altaic grammatical substructure, and core Austronesian vocabulary.
Japanese is related to southern Asian languages. Ono Susumu has suggested a possible relationship between Japanese and Tamil, a member of the Dravidian language family spoken in southern India.
Specialists in Japanese historical linguistics all agree that Japanese is related to the Ryukyuan languages (including Okinawan); together, Japanese and Ryukyuan are grouped in the Japonic languages. Among these specialists, the possibility of a genetic relation to Goguryeo has the most evidence; relationship to Korean is considered plausible but is still up to debate; the Altaic hypothesis has somewhat less currency. Almost all specialists reject the idea that Japanese could be related to Austronesian/Malayo-Polynesian languages or Sino-Tibetan languages, and the idea that Japanese could be related to Tamil is given no credence at all.

It should be noted that linguistic studies, like all fields, can be strongly affected by national politics and other non-academic factors. For example, some linguists would say that Dutch is a dialect of German but is known as a language for political reasons. Japan's long-standing rivalries and enmities with virtually all of its neighbours make the study of linguistic connection particularly fraught with such political tensions. However, these tensions are less prevalent among non-Japanese researchers.
 
Last edited:

(^o^)

you stupid crap! *slaps*
Joined
Mar 6, 2004
Messages
1,593
Location
...zZz
Gender
Female
HSC
2005
supercharged said:
My dad has visited Korea in the 1970s and he said about a 1/3 of the signs back then were in chinese characters. Alot of older Koreans can fully read and write in Chinese as well as Korean.

Chinese characters used in Korean is called Hanja, Kanji for Japanese and was used in Vietnam too until France took over it and romanised the language. I think so as well, but totally sure about Korean, but Japanese counting 1 to ten sounds fairly similiar to chinese 1 to 10. ie ich, ni, san, shi (jap) Vs yi, er, san, si (chinese)

@(^0^): you forgot MANDARIN (official) chinese: dianhua for telephone! :)
I remembered that time, just that I didn't know how the pingyin of telephone in mando :p
 

0o0

o0o
Joined
Oct 13, 2003
Messages
239
Gender
Male
HSC
N/A
maybe the chinese originated from the japanese

seeing that the japs are better.
 

neo o

it's coming to me...
Joined
Aug 16, 2002
Messages
3,294
Gender
Male
HSC
2004
You know, I think until the third page, this topic was actually on topic. :cool:
 

evil99

Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2003
Messages
106
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
1999
69^boi said:
it seems to me that both of these language has simialr cultures..chopsticks,rice, hot chicks and mostly their writing is kinda similar...anyone care to explain the topic above?? or yea n this might be bias coz there like 100% chinese ppl here?..hmm.....
well, japs dont recognise that, hehe
 

Castor

New Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2006
Messages
4
Gender
Female
HSC
2006
Kanji (kahn-gee) is Japanese for "Chinese (kan) characters (ji)." These characters originated in China approximately 4000 years ago, and were imported into Japan, where they were adapted to the Japanese spoken language. Consequently, kanji are very close to the Chinese hanzi and share many identical characters, although they are pronounced differently (e.g., "kan" instead of "han," and "ji" instead of "zi"). Also, the Japanese hiragana script is derived from the Chinese cursive script.
 

tlodg

Active Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2006
Messages
1,148
Gender
Undisclosed
HSC
N/A
69^boi said:
yea but there one thing chinese cant own japan: japan has way hotter cutter innocent chicks than chinese, Done!
you watch a lot of porn don't you.
 

Bendent

Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
Messages
758
Gender
Female
HSC
2005
69^boi said:
yea but there one thing chinese cant own japan: japan has way hotter cutter innocent chicks than chinese, Done!
no chinese own...stop looking at cantonese chicks.
 

Bendent

Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
Messages
758
Gender
Female
HSC
2005
^ omigod i love u babe!!!1!!
 
Last edited:

lala2

Banned
Joined
Aug 23, 2004
Messages
2,790
Location
Sydney
Gender
Female
HSC
2005
Well, imo, if the characters Japanese and Korean use are the same as Chinese characters (which in some cases they are) either it's a matter of very coincidental and heaving borrowing, e.g. in English, cumquat is derived from the Chinese name for that fruit, or else they have a similar linguistic root. I personally think they have a common linguistic root but somewhere a long time ago they split up into what they are today. Note that that linguistic root may not have been tonal, and Japanese continued to be non-tonal while Chinese (and Korean, am I correct?) became tonal instead.

As for the hypothetical situation that Japanese did indeed come from Chinese, and not that they share a common linguistic root, it could be any number of dialects that it emerged from. And what about Vietnamese? Some of their pronounciations are similar to Chinese, I would think.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top