Islam Discussion (5 Viewers)

[Riqtay]

I belive that morals were derived from religion. Religion provides moral guidance to humans. Agnosticism, in my belief is just an easy way out. There are no boundaries to what you can do and not do. Because everyone is free to do anything they please (agnosticism) then society becomes corrupted. Corruption leads to the destruction of such a society as anarchy sets in.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

If there is no God, where do you go after you die? If there is no hereafter (because their is no God) then our lives are being lived in vain.

Ultimately, yes. But it is like building a sandcastle/snowman, it is fun although it is ultimately pointless. We have built up for ourselves a mortal world, with mortal dreams and aspirations... these are enough.

 

[withoutaface]

I belive that morals were derived from religion. Religion provides moral guidance to humans. Agnosticism, in my belief is just an easy way out. There are no boundaries to what you can do and not do. Because everyone is free to do anything they please (agnosticism) then society becomes corrupted. Corruption leads to the destruction of such a society as anarchy sets in.

I believe in freedom above all else, this is my moral system and it has been established without consulting religion in anyway. It is a complete and utter fallacy that you cannot care about other humans without being religious.

And I'd argue that accepting that your life is ultimately pointless is the hard way out, it took me 18 years to finally accept it. Religion is the fool's way out, because it is analogous to the box fallacy I explained in previous posts.

Ultimately everyone should be free to exert their liberties to such a point that it does not interfere with others' rights to do the same, please explain what you mean by corruption. Is the idea of two men having sex corrupt? Is sex outside of marriage corrupt? Is the idea of women showing their faces in public corrupt? If so, why?

 

[SashatheMan]

If there is no God, where do you go after you die? If there is no hereafter (because their is no God) then our lives are being lived in vain.

If there was a god, why would you go to hevaen or what ever? maybe this life is all he wants to give you , and yuo say yuo are living it in vain. You are insulting god and to his face.

 

[Riqtay]

Over 1500 years ago in Saudi Arabia, men used to bury their daughters alive. Clearly people didn't have morals. Finally Islam came along and taught that you shouldn't kill any human being under any circumstance. Thus, before any religion, humans did not have moral guidance. Humans didn't even know that it was wrong to kill, gamble, fornicate etc. Religion provided much needed moral cleansing of the soul and thus helped people including present day athiests to know about basic morals that everyone takes for granted.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Over 1500 years ago in Saudi Arabia, men used to bury their daughters alive. Clearly people didn't have morals. Finally Islam came along and taught that you shouldn't kill any human being under any circumstance. Thus, before any religion, humans did not have moral guidance. Humans didn't even know that it was wrong to kill, gamble, fornicate etc. Religion provided much needed moral cleansing of the soul and thus helped people including present day athiests to know about basic morals that everyone takes for granted.

Oh, was there no religion in Saudi Arabia before Islam?

P.S. Humans have no moral guidance now.. you claim you get your morals from a book but due to everyones individual interpretation you end up in a situation where 100 people can read the same verse and apply it to a situation and come up with 100 different answers to what the 'moral' thing to do is.

 

[SashatheMan]

I belive that morals were derived from religion. Religion provides moral guidance to humans. Agnosticism, in my belief is just an easy way out. There are no boundaries to what you can do and not do. Because everyone is free to do anything they please (agnosticism) then society becomes corrupted. Corruption leads to the destruction of such a society as anarchy sets in.

the government ( people in fact) established laws to prevent people doing what they please. I believe the foundation of religion is actaully basic laws, when religion existed thoasand of years ago there wasnt always a government to prevent anarchy, so some people used god as a way to prevent people from doing crime, Except it uses fear to make people submit.

 

[SashatheMan]

Over 1500 years ago in Saudi Arabia, men used to bury their daughters alive. Clearly people didn't have morals. Finally Islam came along and taught that you shouldn't kill any human being under any circumstance. Thus, before any religion, humans did not have moral guidance. Humans didn't even know that it was wrong to kill, gamble, fornicate etc. Religion provided much needed moral cleansing of the soul and thus helped people including present day athiests to know about basic morals that everyone takes for granted.

so yuor saying a system that teaches the right moral standards is a proof of god ie islam came along and solved all moral problems.
Then i can say the government is a religion and we are all following it and worshiping the only god , who is john howard

 

[withoutaface]

Over 1500 years ago in Saudi Arabia, men used to bury their daughters alive. Clearly people didn't have morals. Finally Islam came along and taught that you shouldn't kill any human being under any circumstance. Thus, before any religion, humans did not have moral guidance. Humans didn't even know that it was wrong to kill, gamble, fornicate etc. Religion provided much needed moral cleansing of the soul and thus helped people including present day athiests to know about basic morals that everyone takes for granted.

But why is it wrong to gamble and fornicate? Sure these issues are (very arguably) detrimental to the individual who engages in them, and while they should be educated of the effects, it should be entirely up to them if they wish to engage in such activities because the only real victim is themselves.

 

[zahid]

1. Everything requires a creator.
2. Hence singularity has a creator.
3. Hence God exists.
4. Hence God requires a creator.
5. Hence God's creator requires a creator etc.

God Knows "that" which you do not. When asked by a prophet "How do you bring the dead back to life?'', God replied "Do you believe that I can bring the dead back to life?" to which the prophet replied "Yes, but i wish to know how, for mental assurance". To which God replied "obtain 4 little birds and train them well, and place them at the ends of four mountains, surely if you call them, they shall return to you".

Hence don't try to comprehend something beyond your comprehension.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

In other words, just believe it and shut up - dont bother thinking.
The usual religious mantra.

 

[withoutaface]

God Knows "that" which you do not. When asked by a prophet "How do you bring the dead back to life?'', God replied "Do you believe that I can bring the dead back to life?" to which the prophet replied "Yes, but i wish to know how, for mental assurance". To which God replied "obtain 4 little birds and train them well, and place them at the ends of four mountains, surely if you call them, they shall return to you".

Hence don't try to comprehend something beyond your comprehension.

I don't, I have said it's impossible to comprehend such a thing and hence I am agnostic.

You on the other hand claim to have comprehended the complete characteristics of God.

How good is hypocrisy eh?

 

[zahid]

In other words, just believe it and shut up - dont bother thinking.
The usual religious mantra.

No you fool, there is a difference between Believing in Gods word and actually comprehending his universal existance.

Edit: this goes for you too withoutaface.

 

[withoutaface]

No you fool, there is a difference between Believing in Gods word and actually comprehending his universal existance.

Edit: this goes for you too withoutaface.

Nevertheless you've tried to comprehend more than I, and hence by your logic my position is the more sound of the two.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

What do you mean? If you believe his word and are told not to bother trying to comprehend his existance is that not just what i said... just believe it and shut up?

 

[zahid]

Nevertheless you've tried to comprehend more than I, and hence by your logic my position is the more sound of the two.

the endeavor to seek true meaning of our existence is certainly a universal one, for which reason my personal resolve to seek meaning and rationality in this world has led me to embrace Islam, in saying so however I do not say that my position in this world is greater or even superior than yours, the fact that I have tried to distinguish light from darkness (or vice versa) does not mean I have tired to comprehend the full extent of Gods existence, rather I have come to the acceptance of his existence to my full capacity, this does not however place you at a superior intellectual position than myself.

 

[sly fly]

But why is it wrong to gamble and fornicate? Sure these issues are (very arguably) detrimental to the individual who engages in them, and while they should be educated of the effects, it should be entirely up to them if they wish to engage in such activities because the only real victim is themselves.

Not true. I live with a gambler so I should know that gambling does not only affect my dad but my whole family has become 'victims' to this problem. My parents are constantly fighting thanks to his gambling, our financial situation is very bad which restricts our use of money thanks to his gambling and we're all unhappy thanks to his gambling. Oh and if we lose our house thanks to his gambling then thats another thing to add to the list.

 

[SashatheMan]

God Knows "that" which you do not. When asked by a prophet "How do you bring the dead back to life?'', God replied "Do you believe that I can bring the dead back to life?" to which the prophet replied "Yes, but i wish to know how, for mental assurance". To which God replied "obtain 4 little birds and train them well, and place them at the ends of four mountains, surely if you call them, they shall return to you".

Hence don't try to comprehend something beyond your comprehension.

so basicly god changed the subject and let the prophet do useless task to distract his brain from thinking.

 

[withoutaface]

Not true. I live with a gambler so I should know that gambling does not only affect my dad but my whole family has become 'victims' to this problem. My parents are constantly fighting thanks to his gambling, our financial situation is very bad which restricts our use of money thanks to his gambling and we're all unhappy thanks to his gambling. Oh and if we lose our house thanks to his gambling then thats another thing to add to the list.

But it primarily affects the person who's doing it. For example, my right to wear a skirt overrides the right of others who might feel uncomfortable with the idea to force me not to.

Is it impossible for your mother to get a job?

 

[zahid]

so basicly god changed the subject and let the prophet do useless task to distract his brain from thinking.

Sorry I refuse to reply to this. You may want to read my reply a few times over, so that its gravity may somehow impact on your future responses to me.