Islam Discussion (2 Viewers)

[tempco]

don't you guys get bored of saying the same thing over, and over, and over, and over, and over again?

 

[White Rabbit]

don't you guys get bored of saying the same thing over, and over, and over, and over, and over again?

Eventually....and I just burnt my biccies

 

[googooloo]

No you moron, I was not refering specifically to the Crusades. However, it began with the Crusades when Christians felt they could impose their religion on the rest of the world. It has continued into the 20th Century, when Christian orientated organisations went into Muslim countries with the aim of "converting" Muslims to Christianity.

Christianity has a history of involving itself where it is not wanted, nor needed.

I watched a few of the compass ramadan specials it had on, like the one on the muslim world in europe. What you are saying here Boris also applies to this program. For instant how Spanish Queen Isabella and her husband, after reclaiming Spain, (on the advice of thier religious adviser--that 'you cannot live with infidels') they decided to impose rediculous laws upon the last muslim population that christians and jews never felt under muslim rule. Such as they cannot practise thier religion, must eat pork (muslims had to have pork hanging intheir dorrways to show they were eating it, and if not the ham police woruld get them.) and then forcably baptised a lot of muslims. How slack is that man? It is true, not just this incident, or the crusades. Pagans would be burnt or hung and drowned or attacked by angry mobs. Their actions are not that of their religion, but if you read the bible and its confusing messages throughout (eg I read from it the other day that it said "God did not create death." ? talk about odd.). The most annoying part of Christianity is that when they force people to convert they still treat them less than, remembering what they were before which is so badly unchristian. In islam all you did before does not count for now after you convert, because you are like a newborn child,a dn all you do after you convert is taken into account by Allah, by God (one god, not in three).

By the way, while Spain and other places where reclaiming land for christian europe they were also compling muslim texts and books because europe had lost the information the greeks and romans had provided them, and the muslim scholars translated the long forgotten books which was then translated into latin by other scholars who realised what these muslim moors where doing. They also corrected and updated the knowledge adn put it into practise. Therefore making the renaissance possible, becasue without the muslim translators the texts would have been lost maybe forever, or for a thousand or more years to come, leaving europe in a dark age for longer than it was.

Sorry princessj, it is just that passion takes people away and onto thigns they wsih to say which is made often possible by such articles. This is turing into a christian attack area rather than the purpose you saw it as. The only thing I can say after all I've said is, there is no terror, it is the governments doing, just like communism and the domineo theory of the cold war which america talked baout. the word 'terrorist', 'weapons of mass destruction' adn terrorism' is jsut rhetoric of this era. Governments liek Howard and Bush never last forever they cannot because people wiser then they think. You can't full all of the people all of the time everyone knows that, someone or some people always see the truth, then that truth is spread and the rest who were being fulled and the government topples.

There was something else I was going to say, but the though has flown from thy head, sorry, maybe if I remember i will say.
Salam to those that deserve it,a nd to those that are not of islam, inshallah you will be , because it is not as people see, read about it and you will see.

 

[googooloo]

Perhaps also it would be beneficial to our society if races such as Buddhists, Muslims and Jews assimilated more, as it seems that they usually marry people of their own race, which hinders the whole purpose of a multicultural society.

Um, I know heaps of aussie women who marry indo men, and heaps of intermingling, haven't you noticed more poeple are actually doing it these days. Multicultural doesn't mean you gotta marry a race different to yours. It's a persons personal choice. By saying what you've said you are just as the other dudes comment you were commenting on. Do you not see?

And a religion is not a race. It is liek say judaism is a race and you're a jew if your mother id jewish. It's a religion, it is a choice. Syaing this is just like saying all jews are money grubby, which is not true (OBVIOUSLY).

 

[hipPo3]

I dont understand how muslim women can defend thier religion so much. Muslim undermines women and due to post-modern ideals of fairness and equality i don't understand how women can subject themselves to the teaching of islam.

Women are considered to be half as worthy then men in Muslim society .. how can you poeple believe in such a faith ?

 

[malkin86]

I don't think it's so much that they marry people of their own faith/race/culture.. it's that immigrants all tend to congregate, perhaps too much... eg. Chinatown - doesn't the name say it all? I mean, it's almost like "why did these people migrate at all, if it was just to create a Little Italy in Glebe, or wherever?" It must be a fine balancing act.. to stave off homesickness and alienation by finding other people like back at home, but also to integrate properly into the rest of society, get job, study, bring up the kids, and so on.

 

[malkin86]

I dont understand how muslim women can defend thier religion so much. Muslim undermines women and due to post-modern ideals of fairness and equality i don't understand how women can subject themselves to the teaching of islam.

Women are considered to be half as worthy then men in Muslim society .. how can you poeple believe in such a faith ?

If you look at it like there is freedom through appropriate limits, then perhaps you can begin to understand. Like, there is a law against hitting people - that limits you from hitting other people, but it also protects you from getting hit, yes? (in an ideal world, I know...)

 

[googooloo]

- Having a cry when you see a bit of a female's skin
Drool, admire, not rape. One is a crime and one isn't.

I do not know where you're getting your info from but of course it's a crime. geez!

- Demanding that McDonalds serve halal Welcome to the free market.

Why not sell halal. PLaces that are muslim countries have halal mcdonalds and KFC. What's the problem with it? It would boost sales cause all the muslims who wish to eat the food would buy from it. As another here has said their sales are plumiting at the moment. They'd be the better for it if you ask me. The point of having a multicultural society is then to cater for all parts of that society is it not?

- Demanding that your shop be open on christmas
Because this is a christian nation. You come here, you obey the law and our holidays. It's that simple.

It's a predominately christian nation, not a christian nation. It has not been declared so, not like america. Our government doesn't ask us to make prayers in schools of the christian variety. This is why why have religious orientated high shcools, universities and primary schools. Otherwise it wuold be a lot different society wouldn't it?

The clothing and music seen in Australia would be very different also, wouldn't it? because it is not jsut islam that says dress modestly, it is also christianity adn judaism, but you see western culture doesn't adverise this with tis revealing tops and short shorts and short short skirts.

- Condoning terrorism which aims to destroy western culture
When you come here you pledge allegiance to Australia and her allies, and that includes America. Justifying the killing of our allies isn't obeying your pledge of allegiance

Many, I'd say most Australian's do not agree with the whole we've gotta kiss bush arse and do what america does you do know that right? I didn't make allegiance to america, I made an allegiance ot myself. Australia happens to be a good country, a lot better then most i do say. I probably will live here all my life, but visit many others like japan cause it's cause and I love japan and i t's ancient culture witht he samuri's and all. I do not think killing random people of hte middle east is good too. I mean what's with all those 'accidents'? and abugrab(soz dnt kno how to spell the name) torture. Torture is a war crime, you cannto do it, becuase then it will lead to people saying anything you want them to if you torture tehm enough. America has tortured most of thei captives, I could say all but I do not know, I know of most so I say most.

Also american soldiers attack the french (maybe spanish) captured female journalist wounding her and killing the ambassador who was with her of her country on her way to the airport out of iraq.

- Trying to change our values [/b]

What are they exactly?

Any value that Australia has that doesn't exist in an Islamic state

That doesn't say what the values are. Australia has simliar values to silamic laws, like do not kill. That is just a most rediculous staement, like all the othe stuff you've said here.

- Playing your horrible music up to 1,000 decibels so we know where you come from

What are you going on about really? Many poeple do this, not just 'wogs' you know.

It's called a hyperbole, get used to it. There's a difference between playing western music and playing islamic music because you're proud of your messed up country that you fled.

Messed up country? Islam isn't a country. Islam is a religion. Have you looked at the poverty in this country lately? what the governments done to the mentally distrubed and retard of late? Letting them walk around without assisantce and live in poverty. And the democracy is going to be hindered even more so witht eh terrorist laws now. I didn't know they played islamic music up loud in their cars, all i've heard is the same 'duff duff' music coming from every car. In Lakemba the other day I heard the 'duff duff' played by aussies also in a muslim car.
You need to be educated, for education eliminates ignorance and prejudice, which you most certainly have.

You should also realise that without migrants australia would be a dead country.

- Parading your country's flag all over your car (you are here now -- parade the Australian flag, otherwise LEAVE) [/b]

People are proud of their heritage, they have the right to do this. There is no law against it. Stop complaining. It is jsut like saying Kathy Freeman couldn't carry the aboriginal flag round at the olympics. This is just racism.

What I eat in my own country where they have just arrived is none of their business.[/b]

You do know that the land of australia belonged to the aboriginals first right? Just cause they didn't have any built up area (which is what civilisation refers to have building and such.) the english accpeted the terra nulius of this terra nova. They are nomads with inferstructure but not as they knew it.

- Demanding that ham should not be served at council meetings where muslims and jews are presentI want ham, I eat ham, regardless of who is around me. I don't force muslims to eat on ramadan. What I eat in my own country where they have just arrived is none of their business.

By the way you kow it is only in the day muslims do not eat, they eat in the morning before usnrise and after sunset.

You know what I htink. I think you think all muslims are from the overseas, well theiy're not. What about those who are australian? Like there is a woman and her husband in melbourne. She hosted a muslim fashion parade, to show who beautiful the attire is and that their not oppressed but culture that does this. And she's full aussie. Here family came over on the furst fleet. 7th generation australian. SHe used to be part of an evangelical church. Then she was like, I don't liekt his i think it's crap what's better, ah islam I'll join that truth speaking truth doing righteous religion.

We are the greatest country in the world because we carry AUSTRALIA'S values, NOT THE MIDDLE EAST'S VALUES.

The laws of islam are not laws of the middle-east they are the laws of islam. Islam originated in the middle east is all. If it had begun in china would you be saying We're not chinese values?

Once terror war is over and the govenments we have now are over the next governments will go back to attack the aborigianls, the single mothers and doel bludgers. Then it's teh asians again and then the petiphiliacs in the church (preiests i mean) another scandal of that, then the single mothers, and who kows from there, maybe judiaism or huinduism will be next after that.

 

[hipPo3]

If you look at it like there is freedom through appropriate limits, then perhaps you can begin to understand. Like, there is a law against hitting people - that limits you from hitting other people, but it also protects you from getting hit, yes? (in an ideal world, I know...)

What i mean is that there soo much prejudice against women. Theres no equality and theres no justice. So why do women follow it ?

 

[googooloo]

I dont understand how muslim women can defend thier religion so much. Muslim undermines women and due to post-modern ideals of fairness and equality i don't understand how women can subject themselves to the teaching of islam.

Women are considered to be half as worthy then men in Muslim society .. how can you poeple believe in such a faith ?

I am a muslim woman and in the eyes of god both are equal you cannot have a prosperous society without both. and muslims must go by what god says, and this is inthe qur'an, one is never more than the other. man and women have an equal part to play, just hey tend to be orientated to be different areas of life. Women can work like most people think they cannot. Many muslim women do and prosper. Ai'sha, the prophets (pbuh) wife was a working woman and he didn't tell her to stop. He was illiterate for goodness sakes. DO not look at what people call muslim states cause they are not. Turkey was the last oen until it changed. There is too much clutural influence in muslim countries to see the truth of women in islam.

And on the topic of covering up, men and owmen both must be modest and cover up, wear loose clothing, that's why men mainly wear hats, pants or shorts and thobes(full length leaves or to the elbows), that is their dress code.

 

[hipPo3]

I am a muslim woman and in the eyes of god both are equal you cannot have a prosperous society without both. and muslims must go by what god says, and this is inthe qur'an, one is never more than the other. man and women have an equal part to play, just hey tend to be orientated to be different areas of life. Women can work like most people think they cannot. Many muslim women do and prosper. Ai'sha, the prophets (pbuh) wife was a working woman and he didn't tell her to stop. He was illiterate for goodness sakes. DO not look at what people call muslim states cause they are not. Turkey was the last oen until it changed. There is too much clutural influence in muslim countries to see the truth of women in islam.

And on the topic of covering up, men and owmen both must be modest and cover up, wear loose clothing, that's why men mainly wear hats, pants or shorts and thobes(full length leaves or to the elbows), that is their dress code.

It's obvious you don't understand your own religion.
Men and Women aren't treated or seen differently in your society ..

apparently accoding to your relgion 1 man = 2 women. That is not equality.

 

[soha]

don't you guys get bored of saying the same thing over, and over, and over, and over, and over again?

i get bored of reading the same shit over and over and over and over again

 

[soha]

It's obvious you don't understand your own religion.
Men and Women aren't treated or seen differently in your society ..

apparently accoding to your relgion 1 man = 2 women. That is not equality.

um one man = 2 women
please explain to me
is that in all aspects of every day life?
or is that out of context..?
do u understand the reasoning behind it
and do u understand that it is only in ONE ASPECT of everyday life and it makes absolute perfect sense

no you dont..coz APPARENTLY ACCORDING TO OUR RELIGON.. which YOU know so well thats how it is
faaar out

 

[hipPo3]

um one man = 2 women
please explain to me
is that in all aspects of every day life?
or is that out of context..?
do u understand the reasoning behind it
and do u understand that it is only in ONE ASPECT of everyday life and it makes absolute perfect sense

no you dont..coz APPARENTLY ACCORDING TO OUR RELIGON.. which YOU know so well thats how it is
faaar out

huh ?
im asking questions ... i want to understand what women see in this religion..
Where you just spoon-fed this by your parents ?, or did you convert (if so why ?) ?

I am Indian, so i know some of pakki culture. When in weddings i see that there always has to be witness', either 1 man and 2 women or 2 men but never 4 women.

 

[soha]

sura 2:282

http://www.islamicity.com/QuranSearch/

its talks about when borrowing and lending money...financial transactions
that you must write it down
make a contract
i owe blah $200
keep a record etc
and if there is no way to keep a record then you need 2 witnesses to remember
and you need 2 women to one man if there is not 2 men because women are forgetful etc and they must remind eachother..
its not a big deal...really...i dont know about weddings dude?

thats not a sign of inferiority or anything...and in this day and age we dont need witnesses anymore..everything is on paper and somehow recorded

 

[SashatheMan]

sura 2:282

http://www.islamicity.com/QuranSearch/

its talks about when borrowing and lending money...financial transactions
that you must write it down
make a contract
i owe blah $200
keep a record etc
and if there is no way to keep a record then you need 2 witnesses to remember
and you need 2 women to one man if there is not 2 men because women are forgetful etc and they must remind eachother..
its not a big deal...really...i dont know about weddings dude?

thats not a sign of inferiority or anything...and in this day and age we dont need witnesses anymore..everything is on paper and somehow recorded

where does it say that women are forgetful and the reason why the quran said 2 women required instead of 1 man? nowhere. yuor just making stuff up to justify the verse. you thought to yuorself, whats a good way to make this not look as women are infirior. hmm ill say that they are forgetful and hence this is the real context

 

[SashatheMan]

Soha onyl becuase you think i get my sources from some quran hating sites, ill use the site you used to further show evidence against equality.

in http://www.islamicity.com/QuranSearch/ type 4:11

4:11 Allah (thus) directs you as regards your Children's (Inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females; if only daughters, two or more, their share is two-thirds of the inheritance; if only one, her share is a half. For parents, a sixth share of the inheritance to each, if the deceased left children; if no children, and the parents are the (only) heirs, the mother has a third; if the deceased left brothers (or sisters) the mother has a sixth. The distribution in all cases (is) after the payment of legacies and debts. Ye know not whether your parents or your children are nearest to you in benefit. These are settled portions ordained by Allah; and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

hmmm

Males are to inherit twice that of females.

<sarcasm>i guess women are forgetful about money </sarcasm>

 

[soha]

where does it say that women are forgetful and the reason why the quran said 2 women required instead of 1 man? nowhere. yuor just making stuff up to justify the verse. you thought to yuorself, whats a good way to make this not look as women are infirior. hmm ill say that they are forgetful and hence this is the real context

excuse me stupid head
"so that if one of them errs the other can remind her"..err meaning "forgetful, makes mistakes or error"

 

[soha]

Soha onyl becuase you think i get my sources from some quran hating sites, ill use the site you used to further show evidence against equality.

in http://www.islamicity.com/QuranSearch/ type 4:11

4:11 Allah (thus) directs you as regards your Children's (Inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females; if only daughters, two or more, their share is two-thirds of the inheritance; if only one, her share is a half. For parents, a sixth share of the inheritance to each, if the deceased left children; if no children, and the parents are the (only) heirs, the mother has a third; if the deceased left brothers (or sisters) the mother has a sixth. The distribution in all cases (is) after the payment of legacies and debts. Ye know not whether your parents or your children are nearest to you in benefit. These are settled portions ordained by Allah; and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

hmmm

Males are to inherit twice that of females.

<sarcasm>i guess women are forgetful about money </sarcasm>

yeah i already knew that and it makes PERFECT SENSE
... i will not deny it ..iim sorry reguardles what you say islam is perfect in every aspect
i am nto even goign to explain it...coz ur a stupidhead
actually yes i will
coz in islam the man gets more because he is the provider of the family
so when the women gets married her husband will have more money to provide for her so on and so forth..so the male gets more because he needs it more then the woman does and in teh end the WOMAN GETS IT ANYWAYS...geez
Allah is all knowing, All wise

 

[MoonlightSonata]

"Islam is perfect in every aspect".

It really amazes me how people can be so blinded.

How can you possibly justify distributing your wealth amongst your children according to an old book?