Islam (2 Viewers)

[soha]

yes lets

hey tangerinespeedeo
what area are u from?...like suburb

 

[mz_purfect]

along with the so-called Hadith to support them

ALL Muslims know that a saheeh Haidth by Muslim and Bukhari are authentic and PART OF ISLAM, never EVER have I heard to the contrary. So the point is if you have a Haidth by either of these, it has been validated and confirmed by at least 300,000- 500,000 pious Muslims based on evidence. I have had an entire lecture on this and can go on forever but hopefully you get my point.

Dogs in the Quran ?? Are'nt they dirty (Najis) ?!!!!!

Pigs, alcohol and zina are also mentioned in the Quran and they are haram too. Why? Because it does no HARM to ALLAH the Creator to talk about these things because Quran as we all know is here to GUIDE us which cannot be done by simply omitting a mention of something regardless of how awfully najis it is.

NO WHERE does God call the dogs dirty animals or give any indication that they should be avoided or treated the way many Muslims think they should. Actually the story of the people of the cave, in Sura 18, gives the indication. that we should appreciate.

Allah also mentions salah (prayers) 5 times in the Quran BUT He does NOT tell us HOW to perform these prayers. This answer is actually in the Hadith of the Prophet (s.a.w). Thus this author can also claim that Muslims pray wrong becuase Allah deosn't even TELL us HOW to pray. So this statement is blatantly ignorant. Just becuase Allah doesnt say something explicitly, then the answer to it lies in the Hadith. Thats what the Prophet (s.a.w) was for silly.

The people of the cave, 3, 5 or 7 were mentioned in the Quran and every time God insists on letting us know that their dog was there with them. ?

Um the author is missing the point here, if you re-read my last point, the Cave surah mentions the dog becuase the dog was keeping GUARD for 309 years, and keeping dogs for security purposes outside ones house (as well as a GUIDE dog) is perfectly acceptable. Or should I say it WAS, becuase these days we have security alarams and wotnot. Also, the dog is mentioned in Surah Al-Kahf was becuase their dog was included in their blessing, so he slept as they slept in that situation. This is the benefit of keeping company with righteous people, so this dog was mentioned and was given status too. This iis n accordance to the Prophets (s.a.w) saying "You will be with those whom you love".

Fabricated hadiths contradict the Quran.

WHOEVER SAYS THAT ABOUT A SAHEEH HADITH BY MUSLIM OR BUKHARi, HAS NO IDEA OF WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. ASK A MUSLIM SHEIKH FROM ANY SECT, AND THEY WILL TELL YOU HOW ABSURD THIS STATEMENT Is.

Many of them narrated by Abu Hurayra. Abu Hurayra, whose name is translated as , father of the little cat, hated dogs and women and from his mouth came many hadiths that insulted women and cursed the dogs and make them undesirable animals that need to be avoided and in other hadiths killed.

Far out, this article makes the most ludicrous claims I have ever heard or read about. Here's one of the Hadith reported by Abu Hurayrah that pretty much denigrates the claim of the author that he hated dogs.
It is related from Abu Hurayra that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Once a man was walking and was very thirsty. He went down a well and drank from it. Then he came back out and found a dog there, panting, which had been driven by thirst to eating mud. He said, 'This dog has reached the same state as I was in.' So he filled his leather sock and, holding it in his mouth, climbed back up and let the dog drink Allah thanked him for that and forgave him." They said, "Messenger of Allah, do we get a reward then on account of animals?" He said, "There is a reward on account of every live animal [lit. everything with a moist liver]."

Now I pose you the question tengerinespeedo How could he have reported such a Hadith when he 'supposedly' HATED dogs???

 

[fashionista]

yes lets

hey tangerinespeedeo
what area are u from?...like suburb

im from wollongong..what about u??


mz_purfect, we just moved on from this, it is not a defining aspect of our individual faith so please let's just let it rest.

p.s. we weren't saying the sahih-al-bukhari is fabricated, we are saying that there has been talk of some OTHER hadith having been fabricated, talk...not confirmation.

 

[soha]

good points especially about how Allah mentions prayer in the koran but he does not tell us how to prayer
for this we rely on hadith etc

 

[soha]

im from wollongong..what about u??


mz_purfect, we just moved on from this, it is not a defining aspect of our individual faith so please let's just let it rest.

baulkham hillls
just wondering..if you were from anywhere near me etc

 

[fashionista]

maybe i shoudl have fully read the article before posting it..it does have some ludicrous claims about Aby Hurayra...i only read the first couple of paragraphs..my bad!!!
im going to consult the hadith and bring you some solid proof sorry about the article...or bits of it.

 

[mr EaZy]

if they are so alike, and Jesus was the 'human manifestation of God' then why isnt he widely mentioned at all in the religion, and then theres mohammed where does he come in, where do any of teh islamic disciples come in.
the koran is just a random book written by like scholars who make things up
The Bible is the only true book written by God throught Jesus's hand-picked disciples.

i just love it when some evangelist tries to spread whatever they want to spread when they see that christianity is being neglected.

im a muslim

the quran is the book of God, and the book of Islam

if you dont believe islam is the book of GOD then do what the Quran says and create another book like it! No reputable scholar in history, linguistics or philosophy will deny that there is no other work of arabic text that is more perfect than the Quran.

iv had a look at evangelist websites, me and a mormon checked it out and she told me it was all lies. i then llooked at the part on where they teach their followers to preach to muslims- i said: its all lies!

look , leave the lies to satan
this thread was put out by korn to encourage more than tolerance, but UNDERSTANDING

ive looked at your scriptures which are mentioned in the quran. its not the same scriptures that jesus left his companions .

look up the word 'apochrypha' in the dictionary and u'll know what i mean

jesus left his foremost desciple peter to 'look after his flock'
peter did not like paul, but today christians will follow paul

and the early works of peter and the righteous companions were lost to the world

like the gospels of St. Barnabus and St. Thomas

does anyone have these Gospels by the way? some people do. well, i do (the 1st one)!

oh and the quran was memorised in whole during the life of the Prophet of Islam, i dunno where u got that stuff on scholars from, its nonesense to those who have sense, but laterz.

p.s: ur not the first evangalist to make such claims
its amazing that only evangalists make such claims but moderates and intellectuals dont!


Korn if ur wondering how we muslims live as such, well, part of it is living with the kinds of people in question. i have no probs with christians doing what they have been told, whats the point of having a religon if you dont practice it or dont take up its values? being a muslim is all about appreciating what God has done for us.
and appreciating what we have makes us grateful for what we have- it allows us to manage what we have more effectively, and thats what i love about islam

 

[mr EaZy]

Muslims pray to the West or North or something, how do u know where this direction is, do u walk around with compasses or something

in australia its west, follow the sunset
u wanna know what time to pray
we use shadows- nowadays the clock will do

compassess will do, but if u dont have one, the last resort after making an effort (after all islam is about effort) then use ur intuition (its technical i know)

also theres a constellation: orion orion's belt points to makkah

 

[mz_purfect]

Sister tangerine, Im not pursuing any agenda in analysing the articles you have posted, but Im taking up my VERY precious time to tell the people who use the Internet as a sole basis of their perception that it really isnt accurate or that reliable. After all, ANY ONE and I repeat ANYONE can write up some thing on the net without any background education or profound knowledge on the subject. This is why we should be very careful with the sort of websites we look at and take into account by verfiying it their content. Im gona concisely analyse your other article which made me so ANGRY with its BLATANT IGNORANCE that I simply couldnt resist! Walla!

They bond with humans, protect them and serve them

um protect them? did anyone here heard the news the other day about the lil 4 yr old kid who had both her ears ripped out, her face torn etc etc etc by a...DOG?

Hadith tells us that angels won't enter a room where there is a dog. That means that for 309 years that the sleepers were in the cave, no angel ever entered. Yet God says "We turned them...." The use of "we" clearly indicates the participation of angels.

THIS IS THE PART THAT MADE ME BOIL!!! Either the author Lydia (as suggestive of the name) has no idea of ARABIC or deliberately ignores it. Becuase, Allah repetitively uses the term We in Quran. This has been attacked by Christians as undermining the MONOTHEISM of Islam. But in Arabic, Allah's use of the term 'laqad' means "we" but this denotes the UNIMAGINABLE POWER OF THE ONE ALLAH its similar to how a member of a political party sometimes uses 'we wil do this' but this does NOT imply that ALLAH I is including ANGLES WITH His Holy Self. Anyone, who understands the Arabic of the Quran can easily cdenounce the author as 'bonkers' or 'ignorant'. Like I said, take this artcile to any sheikh and you'l know.

Also, the article makes some scientific pronouncements without any authority or references. Being a law student myself, I can never buy any of that nonsense!

For a deaf person, a hearing-ear dog allows him or her to live alone without fear. The dog can be taught to alert his owner to the doorbell, telephone, alarm clock, and smoke alarm. A deaf couple can respond to their baby crying, for the dog will alert them. The world is not so frightening and they do not feel so alone, with a dog to hear for them.

As I have formerly noted, dogs are allowed in exceptional circumstances of necessity.

The positive qualities of the dog-loyalty, dependability, tolerance- have been recognized throughout history. Mark Twain

And Mark Twain/Byron is....? just a plain Western author. Is this author comparing Mark Twain's statements with Bukhari and Sahih Muslim's Hadiths that have been validated by 300-500 thousand PIOUS Muslims??? In that case, we all know who to trust...

Lydia Kelley

no wonder I cant take anything seriously by this author!

 

[mz_purfect]

Islam emphasises cleanliness..but it doesn't imply that you have to become obsessive compulsive about it, animals are everywhere germs are everywhere and i agree that hotshot has a logical fact there..Islam recommends that you keep yourself clean but don't overstep the barrier into fanaticism. My mother's family had 7 or 8 dogs and she and my uncles are better muslims than some people who wear full headdress and burka....Islam is based on intention...not purely on your actions or words...what is in your heart is what Allah judges you on, not the fact that you had a dog is enough to send you to Hell.

I know that you have moved sister tangerine, but being a pedantic, I like to set things straight. The purposes of this discussion did NOT require you to tell about how religious your family is. And for that Allah is the Judge. Not you or I. But I find it very annoying when people say that 'IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE HEART" sometimes even a prosititue is good at heart she might beleive in God and all and yet still be disobedient. Its the pragmatism of one that counts. And of course we all refrain from committing the bigger sins of murder etc. But surely our sincerity and love for Allah lies in following His commands and His Rasul's steps in almost every element of our lives. Surely just avoiding the bigger sins makes us generally special, but when you follow the seemingly trivial rules, its then that you become speicifcally special. And then one's love for Allah is discernible. And of course Islam is a way of life,meaning it affects each aspect of our lives, not just the bigger refrainings of murders etc. I hope I have answered all your claims and my replies are delayed cuase Im not a regular bosser Remember sister there was no malice in them. Allah knows best.

 

[fashionista]

okay so i found two hadith...one said that you get sawaab deducted for keeping a dog unless for use on a farm or with cattle and the other was the one mentioned above about the thirsty dog in the desert.

what i gather is that dogs are not recommended or on a harsher extent allowed, but kindness towards them is still expected of you, nonetheless this trivial matter may make you more special if you follow it but i personally..just me..im not imposing this on anyone, believe that the greater things should influence me more...not saying that this is insignificant.

a prostitute may be pure of heart and that will be her saving grace from the Hell Fire, unless ofcourse she was forced against her will to become one..in which case Allah is oft-forigiving and merciful. Allah has not guaranteed that just for being Muslim you get straight into heaven, granted you will get there (provided you havent committed suicide or associated anyone with Allah) but you will nevertheless have to repent and be punished for your sins..therefore a prositute with a pure and believing heart will undoubtedly find paradise after having paid for her/his sins...unless, as mentioned before he/she was forced against his/her will to have become so.

 

[HotShot]

um

the fly story someone told before sounds like b.s. no offence, but are you saying that one wing of the fly has a some sort of disease, virus whatever and the other the cure. b.s

so you are saying that if a fly lands on my bread, and i dont notice it, and i eat it, i will be infected and cure lies in the other wing of the fly? gud one

well these hadiths or whatever, sound like a bunch of fairy tales, with morals and stuff. how can you trust them apart from the fact they are from god or his messengers?

Nowadays there are disinfectants, and so on. why do use soil, when it could have potentially dangerous bacteria, worms and so on. Trust me a dog's lick is not gonna kill you. people licked by dogs all the time, they live and they are just as clean. i am not saying they dont wash after being touched by a dog, but everyone washes after touching an animal!

you guys are only sticking to the koran, just imagine if it was not here then what would you do?

 

[HotShot]

you have missed that point

"And Mark Twain/Byron is....? just a plain Western author. Is this author comparing Mark Twain's statements with Bukhari and Sahih Muslim's Hadiths that have been validated by 300-500 thousand PIOUS Muslims??? In that case, we all know who to trust..."

Firstly we can see the biase in your comment, why are you being discriminative? "western author".

next who has validated Bukhari and Sahih, dont tell me the muslims, because basically they have to follow it. any others?

well mark twain has been validated, by many people, including muslims.

dogs do bite humans, but humans murder people. which is worse? humans of course why because we have brain to think? does dog have brain like ours?

gee dude broaden up, think of the rest of the world.

 

[HotShot]

lol

wake up, prostitues, many of them have no choice and are forced into it, to support thier family, it is their only means of money. you call me contradictory but i think you lot are, because you say we shouldnt judge people, well look who judging?

 

[fashionista]

if the Qu'ran wasn't there then neither would our religion, our religion is a way of life...every aspect of life has to be in accordance with the Islamic way..it's not just a thing you do when you got to mosque, you carry it around with you everywhere and it manifests itself in your conduct. The Hadith, which I do not believe you have read, are teh sayings and ways of life of Muhammed pbuh and his followers, not God...the Qu'ran is the word of God. These hadtih just help us to live in the image of Muhammed pbuh more as he was the most pious and perfect human being. The hadith answer questions like...what should you do if you don't have water to perform abulution before prayers? the answer is use dust...like sand because if u r in an arid area you won't find soil, rather sand or dry dusty ground...which can act as a slight abrasive or exfoliant..therefore performing a cleansing action...it doesnt say to roll around in mud.
Hadith include largely how to pray, and the benefits of prayer..which I have experiencd myself. The hadith deal with issues which arose to the new Muslims of the era and are very much still benefitial today. The 'fairy stories' you refer to are accounts of situations which happened to the poeple back then, The Prophet then used them to educate others about how to conduct their lives i.e the moral of the dog and the thirsty man story =kindness to all of Allah's creations.
why do you care so much whether we can keep dogs or not? ok it is not recommended..ignore the articles i put up before...i didnt even read them properly and they are full of lies...but i read the hadith myself and found that keeping them for guarding, or on a farm is permitted, becuase dogs do protectus and help us. If a Muslim was blind then Allah would be merciful in allowing him a companion guide dog...the guy's blind for crimeny's sake. Yes modern medicine has allowed dogs to become cleaner but still their nature is to dig holes in mud and pee on poles and such which, granted like all animals, isnt very clean...cat's in this respect may also have the potential to be very unclean, but they do take more pride in cleanliness. still that doesnt give us lisence to let them roll in filth. the moral is to keep yourself clean.

 

[fashionista]

p.s. the fly story wasn't posted here by a muslim.

 

[fashionista]

mz_prufect...dogs are loyal!!!! they do protect us!! it says we are allowed to keep them for protection!...they are loyal and wonderful creatures and often die for their masters..sometimes they flip a switch and go mental on their own onwers but for the most part they are indeed very loyal and caring.

 

[HotShot]

um just

just remember this is a forum, so i will be harsh and will not care what others say, but that good cos you can ask some good shit.

no have not the hadith, but a lot of friends have so they tell me. the major disappointment is, the fact that people stick by it 100% and i dont believe thats rite. for example is alcohol is not allowed, shouldnt smoking not be allowed as well.

naturally it should be, causes cancer , its unclean and so on. but just becuase it doesnt say it is not allowed in the hadith or quran, people go for it. what do you think of that? thats stupid isnt it.

the hadith it seems were made for people with no common sense. if there no water, you use sand. but sir what is there is no sand? or sir what do i do if i have soiled in the mosque? go clean it up nuthead!

 

[fashionista]

ok, the bit about smoking..it IS haram..any type of self-harm is haram and we know that, alcohol is harm not only because it harms our lvier systems it often leads us to situations in which we are not able to exercise full control. It says many times that self mutilation is haram and so smoking of any substance, alcohol, tattoos even come under this...we are supposed to protect and respect our bodies..so Muslim smokers are committing a sin just like those who drink. The hadith and the Qu'ran not only refer to alcohol as being haram...but as a sign that the future would bring with it times of change and new products refer to 'self harm' as being haram also..therefore we can count smoking as haram.

if there is no sand then just go ahead and pray! Allah isnt going to chastize you because you didnt walk 2 km to find the nearest sand or water...if you don't have anything all that matters is that you connect with Allah, naturally if you have the means then cleanliness is the key, but many people are poor and live in slums or whatever and have minimal access to any form of hygeine, Allah doens't want them bathing in toilet water...just pray..once again intention counts.

p.s. i never judged any prostitutes or anyone for that matter, that is not up to me, if other people want to judge them that is not taught by our religion but a conception of their own minds...our religion teaches us to only spread the knowledge of Islam and not to enforce...that is live and let live, let others, whether prostitutes or not live their lives, unless you can somehow help to make their lives better, in which case that is what you are required to do.

 

[fashionista]

the sticking by it 100% bit, the hadith are guidelines...living by them is your choice, inevitably you will be the one better/worse off however you chose to abide by them. another thing under which smoking can be considered haram is the fact that it is a form of extended suicide.