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Islamic society dicussion in history (2 Viewers)

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Serius

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I was being sarcastic, but i did actually see this girl, andi was however amused that she would wear a scarf and then wear other stuff completely against what hijab is about, i dont really care that much because iam not muslim but it seemed like she was a poser to me.

So i think this thread has been a pretty good discussion, i definetely learned a few things and although i still think there are many problems with Islam, i think i understand the good points of it a bit better

the discussion in class was kind of wierd. Mecca came up alot and how non-muslims arent allowed in, and if they pretend to be muslim and sneak in they might get trampled cause they wont know what the hell is going on

as my substitute asian teacher put it " they would be like 'look at me, iam dumb tourist dont know what the hell is going on!' SPLAT"

I tried to raise alot of the points brought up in here, and i actually said some of the stuff about the hijab u guys said so i wasnt against islam that much in the discussion.
When i raised the point about islam tending to be a more strict religion with the majority of muslims being more fundamentalist i got shot down severely but a loud mouthed girl who knew alot about islam and so thought her opinion was right on everything. Unfortunately no muslims were in the class, making the discussion a bit bland.
The discussion then moved into how Islam had a set of guidlines and wasnt exactly a religion but more a set of rules of how to live, a very exact set of rules[basically proving my point about the strickness of the religion]

The thing about women came up, and surprisingly i felt obligated to say what you guys said about it, how allthough there are laws in countries like stone women for showing some flesh etc, i said it is more of a cultural thing than a religious thing and how the koran doesnt specifically say to punish women for revealing themselves.
I then introduced the topic of culture vs Islam and how one can make the distinction between the two, basically saying that although islamic countries tend to have very similar sets of rules, this isnt quite a product of religion as it is of local culture[e.g the facemask is a persian thing adopted by muslims, not an islamic thing] so you cant just say that Islam is about this: see proof from so and so country, you have to point out the facts about the religion itself.

Someone else raised the point about Jew hating and i said it was more of an arab thing than a muslim thing seen as what went on in Palistine.

The discussion wasnt quite as heated as i would have liked and i think the one on here was probably more productive, perhaps i should go to one of those youth discussion summits and say some outrages things?
Anyways thanks to everyone for sticking to the guidlines of the thread, thanks for teaching me a little more about your religion and i hope i showed you how us Western people think, and hopefully raised some valid points that people high up in Islamic culture need to look at.
 

Zayd

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Serius said:
the discussion in class was kind of wierd. Mecca came up alot and how non-muslims arent allowed in, and if they pretend to be muslim and sneak in they might get trampled cause they wont know what the hell is going on

as my substitute asian teacher put it " they would be like 'look at me, iam dumb tourist dont know what the hell is going on!' SPLAT"
I was going through this Islamic webiste (www.irf.net/irf/dtp/dawah_tech
/mcqnm.htm), and i think its got some valid points you might consider:

Question:

Why are non-Muslims not allowed in the holy cities of Makkah and Madinah?

Answer:
(The scholar who answered the question is Dr Zakir Naik from india)

It is true that non-Muslims are not allowed in the holy cities of Makkah and Madinah, by law. The following points will serve to elucidate the possible reasoning behind such a restriction.

1. All citizens are not permitted in the cantonment area
I am a citizen of India. Yet, I am not permitted to enter certain restricted areas like the cantonment. In every country there are certain areas where a common citizen of that country cannot enter. Only a citizen who is enrolled in the military or those who are connected with the defence of the country are allowed in the cantonment area. Similarly Islam is a Universal Religion for the entire world and for all human beings. The cantonment areas of Islam are the two holy cites of Makkah and Madinah. Here only those who believe in Islam and are involved in the defence of Islam i.e. the Muslims are allowed.

It would be illogical for a common citizen to object against the restriction on entering a cantonment area. Similarly it is not appropriate for non-Muslims to object against the restriction on non-Muslims against entering Makkah and Madinah.


2. Visa to enter Makkah and Madinah

Whenever a person travels to a foreign country he has to first apply for a visa i.e. the permission to enter that country. Every country has its own rules, regulations and requirements for issuing a visa. Unless their critera are satisfied they will not issue a visa.

One of the countries which is very strict in issuing a visa is the United States of America, especially when issuing visas to citizens of the third world. They have several conditions and requirements to be fulfilled before they issue a visa.

When I visited Singapore, it was mentioned on their immigration form - death to drug traffickers. If I want to visit Singapore I have to abide by the rules. I cannot say that death penalty is a barbaric punishment. Only if I agree with their requirements and conditions will I be permitted to enter the country.

The Visa – The primary condition required for any human being to enter Makkah or Madina is to say with his lips, La ila ha illallah Muhammed ur Rasulullah meaning that ‘there is no God but Allah and Muhammed (pbuh) is His Messenger.’
 

sly fly

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tempco said:
Handbag-snatchers are sickening. Con-men are sickening. Girls wearing the scarf while wearing un-Islamic attire is wrong, but not sickening. If you think labelling them as "sickening" isn't being judgemental, you've got rocks in your head.

And Serius was clearly being sarcastic in his comments regarding the girl in uni. Jeez.
Well maybe you're right and it's not quite 'sickening' but turning islamic dress into a fashion contest is very wrong.

It's not about labelling them or being judgemental, it's about pointing out a common fault. It's like saying ''some muslims drink alcohol which is wrong/sickening/whatever you want to call it''. I'm not comparing the two acts in terms of the extent of how bad they are but I'm comparing them in that they're both haram acts committed by muslims.

---

Edit (Generator): If anyone would like to continue with this discussion, please do so within this thread.
 
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