Islamic society dicussion in history (1 Viewer)

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Serius

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i am sticking this in here because i dont think it warrants NCAP, its more of a toned down dicussion of al lthe islamic stuff going on in there, and its not going in non-school cause its serious and i dont want it getting trolled

basically on tuesday my history tut is going to be dicussing Islamic society and how it conflicts with that of the west. Now for some reason my tutor isnt against islam and if you show her facts or sitations where islam isnt ideal she will pass it off as "thats their way" however on tuesday its a real in class debate

i want to do a mock up of this here before the event to see what people come up with, what evidence they use both for my side[ cause iam mostly against islam] in which case i will pretty much steal your arguement as my own, and borrow your evidence, and for the other side which will prepare me for what is going to be thrown my way on tuesday

heres the question
"What are the major features of Islamic civilisation and how did islam expand its influence"

feel free to take this thread whereever it goes within the realms of a general dicussion of islam, but anything not on topic will hopefully be deleted by mods

Any sort of information [e.g muhhameds yougest wife was 9, he fucked her and[women are oppressed in islam, check out this quote from the Koran] relating to islam and how it is a good thing that it expanded or a bad thing will be considered useful

note: iam mainly looking for criticism here e.g " a main feature of islamic society is gullability, in which shi"ietes beleive that destroying the world will bring the lost caliphate back and re-instate them in a position of power"


have fun kiddies
 

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The moment this thread starts to rehash the debates of old is the moment that it will be closed. If it somehow manages to continue along the stated line, it will be closed on Tuesday.

Generator.
 

sly fly

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Why are you so against Islam if you can't even provide evidence to support your position, and need to ''borrow'' from others?
 

sly fly

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Serius said:
e.g " a main feature of islamic society is gullability, in which shi"ietes beleive that destroying the world will bring the lost caliphate back and re-instate them in a position of power"
What the hell? Where did you come up with that? I'm a shi'ite (shia)........and that's not what shia's believe. I've never even heard of it:eek:
 

Serius

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well then explain to me the concept of the lost caliph and how you translate it. Seen as this issue hasnt been brought up in other discussions it could be a good starting point.

Iranians are shi'ites right? well it is a concern if a country suspected of trying to make nuclear weopons thinks that ending the world will bring them into power. I could give you the bennefit of the doubt cause it might just be an Iran thing.

heres another one: why are non-muslims not allowed to go to mecca? back i nthe day when i was more open minded i thought it would be good to see how other religions operated, now i am not so sure how i would be welcomed.
 
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sly fly

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Serius said:
well then explain to me the concept of the lost caliph and how you translate it. Seen as this issue hasnt been brought up in other discussions it could be a good starting point.

Iranians are shi'ites right? well it is a concern if a country suspected of trying to make nuclear weopons thinks that ending the world will bring them into power. I could give you the bennefit of the doubt cause it might just be an Iran thing.

heres another one: why are non-muslims not allowed to go to mecca? back i nthe day when i was more open minded i thought it would be good to see how other religions operated, now i am not so sure how i would be welcomed.
The lost caliph? I'm not sure what exactly you're referring to but I think I sort of have an idea of what you're talking about, though that's a wierd and incorrect way of putting it. We believe that there were 12 Imams (divinely appointed leaders) after the prophet (p). The last Imam is still in occultation, and he will reappear, along with Jesus (p), before the end of time. It's not that ending the world will bring them power. Rather, towards the end of time (I think about 40yrs or so), the Imam (p) and Jesus (p) will reappear and establish justice on earth, help the oppressed and punish the oppressors.

As for non-Muslims not allowed to go to Mecca, are you positive this is the case? coz I didn't know that and I doubt it's true.

Hope that cleared things up :)
 
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Pubert

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Non-muslims arn't allowed to go to Mecca because it is a religious place and there is nothing for them to do there, also it is as crowded as it is with only muslims, and authorities cannot attend to non-muslims too.
 

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sly fly said:
The lost caliph? I'm not sure what exactly you're referring to but I think I sort of have an idea of what you're talking about, though that's a wierd and incorrect way of putting it. We believe that there were 12 Imams (divinely guided leaders) after the prophet (p). The last Imam is still in occultation, and he will reappear, along with Jesus (p), before the end of time. It's not that ending the world will bring them power. Rather, towards the end of time (I think about 40yrs or so), the Imam (p) and Jesus (p) will reappear and establish justice on earth, help the oppressed and punish the oppressors.

As for non-Muslims not allowed to go to Mecca, are you positive this is the case? coz I didn't know that and I doubt it's true.

Hope that cleared things up :)
Imam Mahdi (ra), is his name
 

sly fly

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Pubert said:
Non-muslims arn't allowed to go to Mecca because it is a religious place and there is nothing for them to do there, also it is as crowded as it is with only muslims, and authorities cannot attend to non-muslims too.
Ahh interesting, didn't know that.....I guess it makes sense though seeing as how crowded Mecca is already, especially during hajj season.
 

Serius

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why are jihads[both lesser and greater] being still used today? the crusades ended hundreds of years ago, this isnt the middle ages anymore and violence and fanatisism gets you nowhere.

also why are muslims so constricted by religious rules that infringe on their freedom. Not allowed to draw muhammed[o rly?]
women have to hide their evil, sinful bodies so as not to tempt man - an animal that cannot control himself

why do muslims grow beards?

Why are women ripped off when it comes to inheritence?

how come execution is seen as a good punishment for adultry? isnt that a little...barbaric and archaic? once again this isnt the middle ages

why are muslim countries technologically poor? [no a hole in the ground does not a toilet make]
as far as iam concerned islamic society may have been technologically advanced and civilised for 1500 years ago, but the rest of the world has moved on and they have stayed put. The ancient Egyptians had similar technoledgy for gods sake!
 

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Serius said:
why are jihads[both lesser and greater] being still used today? the crusades ended hundreds of years ago, this isnt the middle ages anymore and violence and fanatisism gets you nowhere.

also why are muslims so constricted by religious rules that infringe on their freedom. Not allowed to draw muhammed[o rly?]
women have to hide their evil, sinful bodies so as not to tempt man - an animal that cannot control himself

why do muslims grow beards?

Why are women ripped off when it comes to inheritence?

how come execution is seen as a good punishment for adultry? isnt that a little...barbaric and archaic? once again this isnt the middle ages

why are muslim countries technologically poor? [no a hole in the ground does not a toilet make]
as far as iam concerned islamic society may have been technologically advanced and civilised for 1500 years ago, but the rest of the world has moved on and they have stayed put. The ancient Egyptians had similar technoledgy for gods sake!
some of questions are just, but muslims technologically poor is an interesting questions.
firstly few muslims countries are definitely not technological poor- saudi has a 7star hotel, runs chess tournaments, etc and runs many research facilitiees...
for those that are poor, its mainly because of america and harsh restrictions on the middle east eg Iran, preventing the middles easterns from advancing in technology.

as for drawin muhammed - just compare that why u cant chuck a hitler salute or way a nazi flag.
 

Serius

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i can do those things in australia, zieg hails and flag waving for everyone!

saudi exports oil, but they still have a rudimentary government, legal system, emergency services etc.

and what about Iran, why does a country profess to be a democracy when it is more like a dictatorship[ not saying there is anything wrong with that, only problem is when that power is abused]
Why do Iranians pretty much as a whole hate jews? and their government supports this racism.

actually why do so many islamic countries hate jews? i dont have anything against jews but muslims sure seem to.

Why are so mant islamic countries devoid of most basic human rights, such as freedom of speech, e.g not that long ago some iranian bloggers got 2 year jail terms for criticising thir government on the internet

no i dont much like islam at all
 

sly fly

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Serius said:
why are jihads[both lesser and greater] being still used today? the crusades ended hundreds of years ago, this isnt the middle ages anymore and violence and fanatisism gets you nowhere.

also why are muslims so constricted by religious rules that infringe on their freedom. Not allowed to draw muhammed[o rly?]
women have to hide their evil, sinful bodies so as not to tempt man - an animal that cannot control himself

why do muslims grow beards?

Why are women ripped off when it comes to inheritence?

how come execution is seen as a good punishment for adultry? isnt that a little...barbaric and archaic? once again this isnt the middle ages

why are muslim countries technologically poor? [no a hole in the ground does not a toilet make]
as far as iam concerned islamic society may have been technologically advanced and civilised for 1500 years ago, but the rest of the world has moved on and they have stayed put. The ancient Egyptians had similar technoledgy for gods sake!
You've raised many issues so I'll be brief with my answers :)

Many people have misunderstood the term jihad. 'Jihad', means to struggle.....both the lesser jihad ('holy war') and the greater jihad (to be a good person) are struggles. In fact, practically anything can be a jihad. If, for example, you are falsely accused of stealing something, and I go to the court and defend you, I am performing jihad.

Nobody, and I mean nobody, can have absolute freedom. You ask why Muslims are constricted by rules which infirnge on their rights, and I ask why you are. You cannot, for example, speed/steal/drink drive etc....there are laws against these things which ''infringe on your freedom''.

As for drawing Muhammad (p), it is in sunni law that you are absolutely forbidden to draw him. In shia fiqh, however, you are allowed to draw him though not in an offensive/disrespectful manner or in a way which is not befitting for him. However, it is still discouraged to draw him and thus shia's don't draw him out of respect.

Women hide their bodies for various reasons and not because their bodies are ''evil''.

Why does anybody grow a beard? It is not obligatory for Muslims to grow a beard but highly encouraged.

Women aren't ''ripped off'' when it comes to inheritance. There are certain reasons as to why they get less.

A few hundred years ago, even in the West, I'm pretty sure execution was carried out against those who committed adultery. Remember, just because laws have changed since then, doesn't necessarily mean that the current laws are better than the previous laws. So even if it's a practice from the ''middle ages'' as you put it, it doesn't necessarily make it bad. Adultery doesn't just affect the adulterors, it affects whole families.

Muslim countries are generally poor, yes. Though, Saudi Arabia is regarded by some as the richest country in the world and that's supposed to be a Muslim country. Anyway, the reasons for them being poor is very complex and encompasses social, economic, historical and political factors.
 

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Serius said:
i can do those things in australia, zieg hails and flag waving for everyone!

saudi exports oil, but they still have a rudimentary government, legal system, emergency services etc.

and what about Iran, why does a country profess to be a democracy when it is more like a dictatorship[ not saying there is anything wrong with that, only problem is when that power is abused]
Why do Iranians pretty much as a whole hate jews? and their government supports this racism.

actually why do so many islamic countries hate jews? i dont have anything against jews but muslims sure seem to.

Why are so mant islamic countries devoid of most basic human rights, such as freedom of speech, e.g not that long ago some iranian bloggers got 2 year jail terms for criticising thir government on the internet

no i dont much like islam at all
If you cant see it for yourself, you must realise that Religion and Culture are two extremely different things, alot of people get mixed up with the culture and start to blend it within the religion, and beliefs...Which brings out the BIG misconception, and it is easy for people to ridicule Islam but many dont see that the three revealed monotheistic religions, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam go back to Abraham. And the prophets from these religions were directly descended from him. Also Christians and Jews hold a special place in Islam and they are known as the people of the book (Ahl al-kitab) since the original Toral and Gospel were divinely revealed and they shared in the prophetic tradition.

"...[T]hose who believe (in the message of Islam), and the Jews, the Sabaeans, and the Christians - all those who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and act righteously - no fear shall come upon them..." [5:69]



no we dont hate jews, no islam does not devoid basic human rights infact it has been very concerned with issues of human rights. Privacy, freedom, dignity AND equality ARE guaranteed in Islam and it is also stated in the Holy Quran:
"There is no compulsion in religion."
 

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What happens in theory and what happens in practice are two very different things.
 

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Serius said:
why are jihads[both lesser and greater] being still used today? the crusades ended hundreds of years ago, this isnt the middle ages anymore and violence and fanatisism gets you nowhere.
Lesser and greater? "Jihad" means to struggle. I perform jihad every time I go to university. I learn in order to improve myself, in an attempt to become a better person, and consequently, a better Muslim. This struggle, involving mental and physical acts, is jihad if the purpose is to please God. This is not to say that there is no physical jihad - Muslims are encouraged to defend themselves against violent oppressors.

Serius said:
also why are muslims so constricted by religious rules that infringe on their freedom. Not allowed to draw muhammed[o rly?]
women have to hide their evil, sinful bodies so as not to tempt man - an animal that cannot control himself
Sacrifices must be made in order for a Muslim to obey God. I want do to something, but God doesn't not allow me to. This exercise of self-control is central in Islam. It's present in every belief - Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism... even vegans, for example, sacrifice certain "pleasures" for a greater good.

As for Muslim women and men covering themselves, it's about modesty. You're skewed view on this matter is more than obvious... Why don't we see everyone wearing mini-skirts, thongs and tight/revealing tops? Why don't we see men wearing only briefs, for example? Apart from clothes protecting their wearers physically, each and every person has a different concept of modesty. Some women might find mini-skirts revealing, while others may find them acceptable. Some men find it totally accceptable to wear a singlet to uni, while others don't. Who are you to judge a person's standards?

My comments refer to those women and men who choose, out of free will, to wear attire according to Islam.

Serius said:
why do muslims grow beards?
Muhammad had a beard, and he is considered to be the perfect Muslim. Many Muslims aspire to be like him, and growing the beard is seen as a step towards becoming more like him.

Serius said:
Why are women ripped off when it comes to inheritence?
In Islam, money a man has is required to be used to support his family. The remaining amount can then be spent by him. Women are not required to spend any of their money for the family. Their money is theirs. In order to make things equal, women are given less.

Serius said:
how come execution is seen as a good punishment for adultry? isnt that a little...barbaric and archaic? once again this isnt the middle ages
Well, I'd say that adultery has become more acceptable in society. In Islam, this isn't the case. Adultery is as disgusting as it was centuries ago.

Serius said:
why are muslim countries technologically poor? [no a hole in the ground does not a toilet make]
The hole-in-the-ground toilets are also cultural. For example, almost all toilets in Malaysia have hole-in-the-ground toilets, and the usual seat toilets to accomodate the needs of everyone.

Of course, some countries/areas can't afford anything apart from holes in the ground.

Serius said:
as far as iam concerned islamic society may have been technologically advanced and civilised for 1500 years ago, but the rest of the world has moved on and they have stayed put. The ancient Egyptians had similar technoledgy for gods sake!

i can do those things in australia, zieg hails and flag waving for everyone!

saudi exports oil, but they still have a rudimentary government, legal system, emergency services etc.

and what about Iran, why does a country profess to be a democracy when it is more like a dictatorship[ not saying there is anything wrong with that, only problem is when that power is abused]
You mean Pakistan, Iran, and other not-so-developed countries that have been plagued by war, and other unfortunate circumstances, yes? There's no point comparing standards of Australia to these countries... many western countries are generations ahead of them.

Serius said:
Why do Iranians pretty much as a whole hate jews? and their government supports this racism.

actually why do so many islamic countries hate jews? i dont have anything against jews but muslims sure seem to.
That isn't anything new... for example, many Aussies look down on Asians because their willing to work for less money. In the majority of cases, people who are prejudiced against large groups on the basis of what a small section of these people do or did are generally towards the bottom of the education ladder.

Serius said:
Why are so mant islamic countries devoid of most basic human rights, such as freedom of speech, e.g not that long ago some iranian bloggers got 2 year jail terms for criticising thir government on the internet

no i dont much like islam at all
People with large amounts of power and little accountability abuse it. Note, I said people, not Muslims.

You don't have a lot of respect for Muslims. For some reason, when it comes to Muslims, there isn't much tolerance and understanding in what we believe in. And what I say something like that, the usual reply is "Oh but look at those leb guys raping them aussie gurls!". Please, there are morons in every group, and they don't represent the majority... it's not hard to understand the implications of that.
 

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Anam said:
If you cant see it for yourself, you must realise that Religion and Culture are two extremely different things, alot of people get mixed up with the culture and start to blend it within the religion, and beliefs...Which brings out the BIG misconception, and it is easy for people to ridicule Islam but many dont see that the three revealed monotheistic religions, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam go back to Abraham. And the prophets from these religions were directly descended from him. Also Christians and Jews hold a special place in Islam and they are known as the people of the book (Ahl al-kitab) since the original Toral and Gospel were divinely revealed and they shared in the prophetic tradition.

"...[T]hose who believe (in the message of Islam), and the Jews, the Sabaeans, and the Christians - all those who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and act righteously - no fear shall come upon them..." [5:69]



no we dont hate jews, no islam does not devoid basic human rights infact it has been very concerned with issues of human rights. Privacy, freedom, dignity AND equality ARE guaranteed in Islam and it is also stated in the Holy Quran:
"There is no compulsion in religion."
haha yeah equality, just not with women eh?

i think islam is a type of culture, islamic nations share many similiarites, you cant try and tell me how theoretically islam is all about peace, hugs, kisses and equality when in reality how it is practised is far different
 

Zayd

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Serius said:
why are jihads[both lesser and greater] being still used today? the crusades ended hundreds of years ago, this isnt the middle ages anymore and violence and fanatisism gets you nowhere.

also why are muslims so constricted by religious rules that infringe on their freedom. Not allowed to draw muhammed[o rly?]
women have to hide their evil, sinful bodies so as not to tempt man - an animal that cannot control himself

why do muslims grow beards?

Why are women ripped off when it comes to inheritence?

how come execution is seen as a good punishment for adultry? isnt that a little...barbaric and archaic? once again this isnt the middle ages

why are muslim countries technologically poor? [no a hole in the ground does not a toilet make]
as far as iam concerned islamic society may have been technologically advanced and civilised for 1500 years ago, but the rest of the world has moved on and they have stayed put. The ancient Egyptians had similar technoledgy for gods sake!
The status of women in Islam is often the target of attacks in the secular media. The ‘hijaab’ or the Islamic dress is cited by many as an example of the ‘subjugation’ of women under Islamic law. Before we analyze the reasoning behind the religiously mandated ‘hijaab’, let us first study the status of women in societies before the advent of Islam


1. In the past women were degraded and used as objects of lust


The following examples from history amply illustrate the fact that the status of women in earlier civilizations was very low to the extent that they were denied basic human dignity:

Babylonian Civilization:
The women were degraded and were denied all rights under the Babylonian law. If a man murdered a woman, instead of him being punished, his wife was put to death.

Greek Civilization:
Greek Civilization is considered the most glorious of all ancient civilizations. Under this very ‘glorious’ system, women were deprived of all rights and were looked down upon. In Greek mythology, an ‘imaginary woman’ called ‘Pandora’ is the root cause of misfortune of human beings. The Greeks considered women to be subhuman and inferior to men. Though chastity of women was precious, and women were held in high esteem, the Greeks were later overwhelmed by ego and sexual perversions. Prostitution became a regular practice amongst all classes of Greek society.

Roman Civilization:
When Roman Civilization was at the zenith of its ‘glory’, a man even had the right to take the life of his wife. Prostitution and nudity were common amongst the Romans.

Egyptian Civilization:
The Egyptian considered women evil and as a sign of a devil.

Pre-Islamic Arabia:
Before Islam spread in Arabia, the Arabs looked down upon women and very often when a female child was born, she was buried alive.


2. Islam uplifted women and gave them equality and expects them to maintain their status.

Islam uplifted the status of women and granted them their just rights 1400 years ago. Islam expects women to maintain their status.


Hijaab for men

People usually only discuss ‘hijaab’ in the context of women. However, in the Glorious Qur’an, Allah (swt) first mentions ‘hijaab’ for men before ‘hijaab’ for the women. The Qur’an mentions in Surah Noor:

"Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: and Allah is well acquainted with all that they do."
[Al-Qur’an 24:30]

The moment a man looks at a woman and if any brazen or unashamed thought comes to his mind, he should lower his gaze.

Hijaab for women.

The next verse of Surah Noor, says:

" And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands’ fathers, their sons..."
[Al-Qur’an 24:31]


3. Six criteria for Hijaab.

According to Qur’an and Sunnah there are basically six criteria for observing hijaab:

Extent:

The first criterion is the extent of the body that should be covered. This is different for men and women. The extent of covering obligatory on the male is to cover the body at least from the navel to the knees. For women, the extent of covering obligatory is to cover the complete body except the face and the hands upto the wrist. If they wish to, they can cover even these parts of the body. Some scholars of Islam insist that the face and the hands are part of the obligatory extent of ‘hijaab’.

All the remaining five criteria are the same for men and women.

The clothes worn should be loose and should not reveal the figure.

The clothes worn should not be transparent such that one can see through them.

The clothes worn should not be so glamorous as to attract the opposite sex.

The clothes worn should not resemble that of the opposite sex.

The clothes worn should not resemble that of the unbelievers i.e. they should not wear clothes that are specifically identities or symbols of the unbelievers’ religions.


4. Hijaab includes conduct and behaviour among other things

Complete ‘hijaab’, besides the six criteria of clothing, also includes the moral conduct, behaviour, attitude and intention of the individual. A person only fulfilling the criteria of ‘hijaab’ of the clothes is observing ‘hijaab’ in a limited sense. ‘Hijaab’ of the clothes should be accompanied by ‘hijaab’ of the eyes, ‘hijaab’ of the heart, ‘hijaab’ of thought and ‘hijaab’ of intention. It also includes the way a person walks, the way a person talks, the way he behaves, etc.


5. Hijaab prevents molestation

The reason why Hijaab is prescribed for women is mentioned in the Qur’an in the following verses of Surah Al-Ahzab:

"O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad); that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
[Al-Qur’an 33:59]

The Qur’an says that Hijaab has been prescribed for the women so that they are recognized as modest women and this will also prevent them from being molested.


6. Example of twin sisters

Suppose two sisters who are twins, and who are equally beautiful, walk down the street. One of them is attired in the Islamic hijaab i.e. the complete body is covered, except for the face and the hands up to the wrists. The other sister is wearing western clothes, a mini skirt or shorts. Just around the corner there is a hooligan or ruffian who is waiting for a catch, to tease a girl. Whom will he tease? The girl wearing the Islamic Hijaab or the girl wearing the skirt or the mini? Naturally he will tease the girl wearing the skirt or the mini. Such dresses are an indirect invitation to the opposite sex for teasing and molestation. The Qur’an rightly says that hijaab prevents women from being molested.


7. Capital punishment for the rapists

Under the Islamic shariah, a man convicted of having raped a woman, is given capital punishment. Many are astonished at this ‘harsh’ sentence. Some even say that Islam is a ruthless, barbaric religion! I have asked a simple question to hundreds of non-Muslim men. Suppose, God forbid, someone rapes your wife, your mother or your sister. You are made the judge and the rapist is brought in front of you. What punishment would you give him? All of them said they would put him to death. Some went to the extent of saying they would torture him to death. To them I ask, if someone rapes your wife or your mother you want to put him to death. But if the same crime is committed on somebody else’s wife or daughter you say capital punishment is barbaric. Why should there be double standards?


8. Western society falsely claims to have uplifted women

Western talk of women’s liberalization is nothing but a disguised form of exploitation of her body, degradation of her soul, and deprivation of her honour. Western society claims to have ‘uplifted’ women. On the contrary it has actually degraded them to the status of concubines, mistresses and society butterflies who are mere tools in the hands of pleasure seekers and sex marketeers, hidden behind the colourful screen of ‘art’ and ‘culture’.


9. USA has one of the highest rates of rape

United States of America is supposed to be one of the most advanced countries of the world. It also has one of the highest rates of rape in any country in the world. According to a FBI report, in the year 1990, every day on an average 1756 cases of rape were committed in U.S.A alone. Later another report said that on an average everyday 1900 cases of rapes are committed in USA. The year was not mentioned. May be it was 1992 or 1993. May be the Americans got ‘bolder’ in the following years.

Consider a scenario where the Islamic hijaab is followed in America. Whenever a man looks at a woman and any brazen or unashamed thought comes to his mind, he lowers his gaze. Every woman wears the Islamic hijaab, that is the complete body is covered except the face and the hands upto the wrist. After this if any man commits rape he is given capital punishment. I ask you, in such a scenario, will the rate of rape in America increase, will it remain the same, or will it decrease?


10. Implementation of Islamic Shariah will reduce the rate of rapes

Naturally as soon as Islamic Shariah is implemented positive results will be inevitable. If Islamic Shariah is implemented in any part of the world, whether it is America or Europe, society will breathe easier. Hijaab does not degrade a woman but uplifts a woman and protects her modesty and chastity.
 

sly fly

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Serius said:
haha yeah equality, just not with women eh?

i think islam is a type of culture, islamic nations share many similiarites, you cant try and tell me how theoretically islam is all about peace, hugs, kisses and equality when in reality how it is practised is far different
Men and women are not exactly the same biologically, socially and psychologically. Would it then be logical to give them the exact same rights and responsibilities?
 
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