I was just watching CNN, a write for Time magazine currently in Lebanon said, correctly, that Hezbollah is a very secretive and well planned organisation. Its got atleast two distinct wings - its political and military wing. He mentioned this 'firewall' between the two wings in that often the political wing (the public face to the Lebanese people) doesnt know what the military wing is up to. The military wing is kept very secretive as to prevent collaboraters from infiltrating its ranks and reporting back to Israel about its actions. He also went on to say that "I have seen no evidence of Hezbollah rocket launchers and weapon caches in apartment buildings" (the presenter than asked "But doesnt that contradict what Israel has been saying?", which the reply was "Yes, the Israelis say lot of things dont they") Hezbollah has dug itself in to this tunnel network. It makes sense, because Israel has cut Lebanon into so many little pieces, killed so many people and destroyed so much infastructure with the excuse that Hezbollah is using it, YET rockets still fall into Israel! The IDF claims 200 militants have been killed, yet hezbollah says only 32-25 have been killed. Who do you believe? Who cares! Its VERY obvious that Israel's current strategy is just not working.ZabZu said:
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Israel attacks Lebanon (2 Viewers)
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marklatham
New Member
Technique: IronyJordan.J said:
This is ironic because the Hezbollah have been shown to be firing their rockets from other areas where civilians, UN and other groups are. In some UN thingy this is defined as a war crime as it is uneccessarily bringing in these non-combatants into the firing line. Guess they both should cope a UN beating. Israel really should cease fire and let the UN peace keepers in. I hear the Lebanese leader is up for it. Solve plenty of problems if they can find participant countries.
marklatham
New Member
Would you hang around if you just launched a rocket? Sorry, couldnt help myself... Some of the images shown on the middle-east news shows, which have bits shown on ours, have shown that there is children and women standing around when the rockets are lauched. Then they kinda clapped while the guys who shot it run off. Guess there is images for boths sides.Jordan.J said:
Kinda a big f'up by israel hitting that UN building though. There where definate reports of shooting in that area and apparently the UN people should have left so its kinda not israels fault for that. Not cool though...
Say there were rocket attacks from there and they got away.
That doesnt explain why Israel killed so many civilians
Israel claim to have have one of the best intelligence agencies int he world, if so there was no need to bomb Qana since their "intelligence" should know they got away.
And thats only "IF" the rocket launchers were there. No evidence of that yet
14:51 EU`s Solana: Nothing can justify Qana attack (Reuters)
That doesnt explain why Israel killed so many civilians
Israel claim to have have one of the best intelligence agencies int he world, if so there was no need to bomb Qana since their "intelligence" should know they got away.
And thats only "IF" the rocket launchers were there. No evidence of that yet
14:51 EU`s Solana: Nothing can justify Qana attack (Reuters)
marklatham
New Member
Yes, very true. Damn these modern warfare methods. Bring back the days of the old trench warfare. Two charge down a machine gun is far easier and less problematic then destroying a militant group.Jordan.J said:
If only people would stop pissing off the annoying little guys. With all the smart people in intelligence agencies, you think they'd do it James Bond style and send a man into the underground passages with a flame thrower and flush em out or kill the leader.
What i am trying to say is that Israel have put themselves in a impossible postion and should seek UN help or continue inciting hatred against themselves or get better intel. Damn media, always sensationalising, good fuel for 'Telling the truth' though.
yes i adimt it.. the whole of israel vs lebanon. thats it. hezbollah kjills innocent civillians and so does israel its a SHAME but i guess thats wat war is (and i dont support it from either side), however israel NEVER START u cant even mention one occasion where they hav started... muslims just believe they dont have the right to exist.Jordan.J said:
SOOOOO DONT DENY IT...theres evidence everywhere
and little muslim children (and im not saying all) are taught to hate jewsss and that jews are pigs ---> i dont think that its the childrens fault its the parents breeding a generation of hate
marklatham
New Member
The thing is that the attacking of the lebanese causes these children to see horrific things and condem israel themselves. All one bitch of a cycle. The only end is for someone to stop, which israel has tried and lost patience with the poor efforts of lebanon. This whole thing will drag on not matter what the end result of the war is.
Oh and wars dont involve killing non-combatants. Thats a war crime, if its avoidable within reason, i.e. no baddies around
Oh and wars dont involve killing non-combatants. Thats a war crime, if its avoidable within reason, i.e. no baddies around
deegee said:
Lets make this very clear.
Here are what Israeli politicians think of Arabs. This is what Israel wants to do with arabs. Long before Hamas and Hizbelloah even EXISTED
.................................................. .................................
"We must expel Arabs and take their places."
-- David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.
.................
"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population."
-- David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.
.................
"There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?"
-- Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp. 121-122.
.................
"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted in The Jewish Paradox, by Nahum Goldmann, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1978, p. 99.
.................
"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.
.................
"If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel."
-- David Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth's Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation).
.................
"There is no such thing as a Palestinian people... It is not as if we came and threw them out and took their country. They didn't exist."
-- Golda Meir, statement to The Sunday Times, 15 June, 1969.
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"How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to."
-- Golda Meir, March 8, 1969.
.................
"Any one who speaks in favor of bringing the Arab refugees back must also say how he expects to take the responsibility for it, if he is interested in the state of Israel. It is better that things are stated clearly and plainly: We shall not let this happen."
-- Golda Meir, 1961, in a speech to the Knesset, reported in Ner, October 1961
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"This country exists as the fulfillment of a promise made by God Himself. It would be ridiculous to ask it to account for its legitimacy."
-- Golda Meir, Le Monde, 15 October 1971
.................
"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!"
-- Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.
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"[Israel will] create in the course of the next 10 or 20 years conditions which would attract natural and voluntary migration of the refugees from the Gaza Strip and the west Bank to Jordan. To achieve this we have to come to agreement with King Hussein and not with Yasser Arafat."
-- Yitzhak Rabin (a "Prince of Peace" by Clinton's standards), explaining his method of ethnically cleansing the occupied land without stirring a world outcry. (Quoted in David Shipler in the New York Times, 04/04/1983 citing Meir Cohen's remarks to the Knesset's foreign affairs and defense committee on March 16.)
.................
"[The Palestinians] are beasts walking on two legs."
-- Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the 'Beasts,"' New Statesman, June 25, 1982.
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"The Partition of Palestine is illegal. It will never be recognized .... Jerusalem was and will for ever be our capital. Eretz Israel will be restored to the people of Israel. All of it. And for Ever."
-- Menachem Begin, the day after the U.N. vote to partition Palestine.
.................
"The past leaders of our movement left us a clear message to keep Eretz Israel from the Sea to the River Jordan for future generations, for the mass aliya (=Jewish immigration), and for the Jewish people, all of whom will be gathered into this country."
-- Former Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir declares at a Tel Aviv memorial service for former Likud leaders, November 1990. Jerusalem Domestic Radio Service.
.................
"The settlement of the Land of Israel is the essence of Zionism. Without settlement, we will not fulfill Zionism. It's that simple."
-- Yitzhak Shamir, Maariv, 02/21/1997.
.................
"(The Palestinians) would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls."
-- Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) Yitzhak Shamir in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988
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"Israel should have exploited the repression of the demonstrations in China, when world attention focused on that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the territories."
-- Benyamin Netanyahu, then Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister, former Prime Minister of Israel, speaking to students at Bar Ilan University, from the Israeli journal Hotam, November 24, 1989.
.................
"The Palestinians are like crocodiles, the more you give them meat, they want more"....
-- Ehud Barak, Prime Minister of Israel at the time - August 28, 2000. Reported in the Jerusalem Post August 30, 2000
.................
"If we thought that instead of 200 Palestinian fatalities, 2,000 dead would put an end to the fighting at a stroke, we would use much more force...."
-- Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, quoted in Associated Press, November 16, 2000.
.................
"I would have joined a terrorist organization."
-- Ehud Barak's response to Gideon Levy, a columnist for the Ha'aretz newspaper, when Barak was asked what he would have done if he had been born a Palestinian.
.................
"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.
.................
"Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours...Everything we don't grab will go to them."
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of the Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, Nov. 15, 1998.
.................
"Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial."
-- Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 25 March, 2001 quoted in BBC News
marklatham
New Member
Ha ha. Nice quotes. These make israel look incredibly aggressive. Considering the advantages israel has over lebanon, it would be unfair to let 'em fight it out. Bahh. Enough politics. Time for another AOS essay before bed.
just thought i might add something in favour of israel. do any of you remember how this whole conflict started. when hesbulad came to power they fired rockets indiscriminitially into israel. these were not target rockets either, they were simply desighned to hit anything and everything. i really dont see how else israel could have reacted. after the first strikes by hesbulad israel launched tactical missiles to imobilise the rocket sites that had just hit them.
The deaths of the innocent civilians in Israel's recent attacks against Lebanon is a great tragedy. No one on here (i should hope) rejoices at the fact that innocent men, women and children have died. The images and stories are horrific, and is surely the worst event that has occured in this conflict.
However, i have viewed NUMEROUS telelvision news stations as well as read NUMEROUS newspaper articles which has reaffrimed my notion that Israel did NOT specifically aim at these civilians and in fact warned them to leave. I do accept and understand the hardships, however, that these people face and the difficulties that might prevent them from escaping. Israel has launched a full investigation into the reasoning of why they did not know people were in the building.
Israel, its politicians and its soldiers deeply lament with the sorrow of the loss of human life BUT have also released official IAF footage of their attack, with rockets CLEARLY shown that have been launched from metres away from the building. This is then confirmed by LEBANESE sources which say the bomb fired was right next to the building and not a direct hit, however caused the eventual collapse of the building.
This was an article i found in an AUSTRALIAN newspaper and as the article states: these are the photos that damned Hezbollah
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,19960056-5006301,00.html
Hezbollah is hiding behind civilians and using the death of these civilians for their own propaganda uses...israel's damned if they do, damned of they dont...if they dont attack theyre seen as cowards and the onslaught continues of they do, the images of war are spread accross the world by the media in an effort to distort the facts!
a basic comparison is drawn:
However, i have viewed NUMEROUS telelvision news stations as well as read NUMEROUS newspaper articles which has reaffrimed my notion that Israel did NOT specifically aim at these civilians and in fact warned them to leave. I do accept and understand the hardships, however, that these people face and the difficulties that might prevent them from escaping. Israel has launched a full investigation into the reasoning of why they did not know people were in the building.
Israel, its politicians and its soldiers deeply lament with the sorrow of the loss of human life BUT have also released official IAF footage of their attack, with rockets CLEARLY shown that have been launched from metres away from the building. This is then confirmed by LEBANESE sources which say the bomb fired was right next to the building and not a direct hit, however caused the eventual collapse of the building.
This was an article i found in an AUSTRALIAN newspaper and as the article states: these are the photos that damned Hezbollah
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,19960056-5006301,00.html
Hezbollah is hiding behind civilians and using the death of these civilians for their own propaganda uses...israel's damned if they do, damned of they dont...if they dont attack theyre seen as cowards and the onslaught continues of they do, the images of war are spread accross the world by the media in an effort to distort the facts!
a basic comparison is drawn:
A bank robber who takes a teller hostage and fires at police from behind his human shield is guilty of murder if they, in an effort to stop the robber from shooting, accidentally kill the hostage. The same should be true of terrorists who use civilians as shields from behind whom they fire their rockets.
A guy with an AK, and people on anti-aircraft guns? Is that suppose to damn anyone in regards to Qana? 
Told them to leave? Read my previous post.
Heres a fact for you : no hezbollah fighters were injured. Bam, sorry, no excuses. There is no way hezbollah could have been hiding with those civlians, if there were no hezbollah casualties.
They attacked the place two times actually, 5 minutes apart. It wasnt just one attack.
Told them to leave? Read my previous post.
Heres a fact for you : no hezbollah fighters were injured. Bam, sorry, no excuses. There is no way hezbollah could have been hiding with those civlians, if there were no hezbollah casualties.
They attacked the place two times actually, 5 minutes apart. It wasnt just one attack.
How do you know there were no Hezbollah casualities?Mumma said:A guy with an AK, and people on anti-aircraft guns? Is that suppose to damn anyone in regards to Qana?
Told them to leave? Read my previous post.
Heres a fact for you : no hezbollah fighters were injured. Bam, sorry, no excuses. There is no way hezbollah could have been hiding with those civlians, if there were no hezbollah casualties.
They attacked the place two times actually, 5 minutes apart. It wasnt just one attack.
Israel did NOT attack the place for no reason, and if you cant comprehend that fact then you just carry on your belief that Israel are "bad"
AntiHyper
Revered Member
Hezbollah might've constructed a series of bunkers where they hide. If this is the case, then I believe it would be outmostly ineffective to just spam airstrikes or artillery on their positions.
Israel would need to bring in their army and fight house to house.
Israel would need to bring in their army and fight house to house.