James Ruse are cheaters and the BOS do not care. (3 Viewers)

[middlemarch]

There's nothing wrong with learning out of school. In that situation, if the individual wants to spend his/hers time doing that rather than going out into the sun, its fine. I think the issue here is whether a school should teach HSC topics to yr 9/10s during normal school time. Is it fair that a student has 2yrs to master 4u polynomials where as another student only has the 4 terms, probably less, to master it simply because the second student didn't attend a certain school?

I appreciate the necessity to stimulate talented students however, there are options avaliable other than teaching them HSC content.

Also, while JR clearly has a lot of capable students who are able to handle the higher level work, surely students other top schools in NSW are also be capable enough and so why don't their school do what JR does?

Thanks for putting it so well!

 

[critiek]

That was just an example. Plus they actually do not teach z = x + iy earlier than year 10. (not every James Ruse student does extension 2 maths you know?)

My 'guess' is they teach the 2U maths course as fast as they can.

But yeah, in most year 9/10 maths subjects, it's really hard to find challenging questions, unless you learn a bit more about the topic so there is a wider range of challenging questions to ask.

Of course, I do not stereotype them like that. I hear that out of 170 students the top 90 will do it.

I know what you meant and it makes sense

ogmzergrush: That is a good point but I believe that most kids are only doing the HSC for marks not for a learning experience.

If JR really had an appreciation for education they would not race through to get to the HSC topics, I think it is their competitive spirits that does this. But this spirit is definately not a bad thing.

Well I'm off to rest and maybe watch a movie then have a sleep. It's been a pleasure arguing this point with those who have made a point. Also ragerunner after you posted all the 'unappreciative' posters left so thank you for relieving me from explaining the same thing 5 times to 3 different people

Till tomorrow

 

[seremify007]

I'm pretty sure they do. If teachers know yr11/12 stuff and have good material, why shouldn't they be able to help younger students who are interested? We have a tutorial service at school and a yr9 (or was he yr10?) boy came upto us yr12s and wanted us to teach him yr12 physics (he had already self taught yr11 physics).

 

[Raginsheep]

Lets say a student is taught the topic on 'equations' in year 9/10. They learn linear equations The student is now fully proficient in it. Next, they learn about absolute values in equations. Now they are fully proficient in it.

To be able to ask more challenging questions, the student needs to know more about the topic on equations. As such, they will then have to learn about simutaneous equations, inequations, etc.. (Prelim/HSC course material).

Now, you really can't ask a student a challenging question based on year 9/10 material such as linear equations? I doubt it can really get much harder.

Thats fine and the asking of questions and further exploration of it should be ecouraged. However, any furthing of the syllabus should be done outside of normal class hours.

 

[critiek]

Lets say a student is taught the topic on 'equations' in year 9/10. They learn linear equations The student is now fully proficient in it. Next, they learn about absolute values in equations. Now they are fully proficient in it.

To be able to ask more challenging questions, the student needs to know more about the topic on equations. As such, they will then have to learn about simutaneous equations, inequations, etc.. (Prelim/HSC course material).

Now, you really can't ask a student a challenging question based on year 9/10 material such as linear equations? I doubt it can really get much harder.

That's not what I had in mind for HSC material, they're learning calculus, integration and natural numbers before other schools have even heard of the terms. ALthough those examples are not 4U HSC topics they still have a level of difficulty which is highly unlikely a HSer could master.

 

[Raginsheep]

Its not about whether they get scaled well or not.

The argument is over whether a school should be able to teach HSC topics in a manner which allows their students extra time to master it and thus gain a possible advantage over other schools.

 

[middlemarch]

They don't do that, idiot.



Without being arrogant, their test paper aren't hard, which is why people do so well.



What? You are an idiot.




Once again, you are an idiot.



Errr..yes...idiot.



James Ruse does so well 'cause they only accept the very academically capable/elite students in the first place, hence everyone does well in the school, which is why it's the top school in the state.



What special treatment policy are you talking about here? Am I ignorant or are you just an idiot?

They get scaled high because everyone else does well. You are an idiot.

If the students chose to do the HSC course before they're supposed to, that's their issue, not yours.

Just shut up.

Isn't it sad when people who can't find the words to express their point, resort to insults.

 

[word.]

errm
have you even seen a ruse maths exam?
not sure about ext2 but the mathematics and ext1 papers are pretty standard,
like any other schools exams

 

[acmilan]

Yeah, I'd like to see what these exams are actually like.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

It's a basic concept that by starting early you have an advantage, now not every school can really 'institutionalise' such a system, because you need to have committed people for it to work. Therefore, they are at an advantage.

The whole idea of such schools is to group 'brighter' students together, to give them a collective advantage over others.

I do believe it is unfair allowing ANY student to accellerate, since they can do that unit again in year 12 if they are unhappy with their result. It really gives someone 2x the experience and 2x the chances at success. They can simply fail all their year 11 work and it won't affect them what-so-ever.

 

[middlemarch]

errm
have you even seen a ruse maths exam?
not sure about ext2 but the mathematics and ext1 papers are pretty standard,
like any other schools exams

So they are not "really" into challenging themselves are they? They just want to learn exactly the same "standard" stuff in 2 yrs where as everybody else spends just 1 yr on it.

 

[Raginsheep]

Well.....it sorta means that they have to learn the "foundations" in a shorter time...

 

[Not-That-Bright]

What do you mean? They learn the HSC work, and any 'foundations' knowledge they need to learn the HSC work they can look up fairly quickly. I did nothing in year 11 (Failed most of my assessments, was comming near bottom of most of my classes) and it didn't affect me much in the end I think.

 

[acmilan]

What do you mean? They learn the HSC work, and any 'foundations' knowledge they need to learn the HSC work they can look up fairly quickly. I did nothing in year 11 (Failed most of my assessments, was comming near bottom of most of my classes) and it didn't affect me much in the end I think.

Theres a difference though, the initial post was about year 9/10. Year 11 and 12 maths (all levels) are fairly separate on most parts, many of the things covered in year 11 are re-done in year 12, 4 unit maths doesnt even have a year 11, and you can do well in one and not the other. However in maths you need the foundations learnt in year 9/10 to go on to year 11/12. These students dont simply walk in knowing these things, they still need to learn it, albeit in a shorter time, allowing them to extend earlier than other schools.

 

[kami]

My thoughts - there are plenty of generic skills you learn in school and its perfectly acceptable for selective schools to teach them at a higher standard. What is not acceptable is for them to learn specific ideas and information that is forbidden by Board ruling to school - its a crud ruling which should be removed but its still there and Ruse and a few other schools should not recieve special immunity from it. If there are students that have talents to be nurtured then accelerate them or create a board endorsed subject that doesn't trespass onto stage 6 syllabus grounds but challenges their intellect. Both would be 'legal', and both would be more challenging for an up and coming student, no?
In the end though I care more about my own education than challenging James Ruse's so I'm not overly fussed.

 

[Raginsheep]

As a side note, what other schools of repute do it?

 

[acmilan]

As a side note, what other schools of repute do it?

My school isnt of repute, but we did do some topics ahead of time (mainly in yr 10 and 11), not just for maths either, sciences also.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

The whole 'gifted' thing for most people I feel is BS. Are there some sort of standardised tests which are carried out on every student to determine if you should go to a selective school? are selective schools (of such a high calibre) available to everyone?

 

[Raginsheep]

Isn't the selective schools test stat in yr 6 a standardised test?

 

[Trebla]

Why is it that James Ruse is the only school in the State that starts HSC and Prelim work way before they are allowed to by the BOS?

No other selective school does this, even the high ranking girl and boy schools play by the rules and only start the HSC course after Year 11 has officially finished.

If anyone has seen a James Ruse maths test, they are doing 3 unit work in year 9/10 and their exams are more difficult than any other school urely because they have worked so far ahead.

Officially the BOS does NOT allow this yet they cast a blind eye over their love child with the politicians and spin doctors who want a model school for NSW. We don't tell the other states that this 'model' school plays by their own set of rules.

I find what James Ruse is doing extremely selfish and stereotypical of their school mentality of "marks marks marks".

The BOS also have less than impressive contact 'details' which are probably siphoned straight into their spam folders or answering machines.

People think it's impossible to overcome James Ruses' high standard but their is talent in every school, except they work hard and have no life.

I say we should make some noise and get the BOS to rethink their special treatment policy. I propose that because of their unfair advantage over other schools they should have their scaling reduced because they already have and advantage over other students even before they cheat and do the HSC material behind everyone else's back.

You are an idiot. Think before you lash out with your criticism!
Have you ever been to or know anyone from James Ruse? On what evidence are you basing your claims on? I can tell you now that many of your claims are false.
Here are a few points I would like to make:
- It is PERFECTLY LEGAL to begin the Preliminary and HSC course at an early age. Have you ever heard of ACCELERATED STUDENTS? The BOS certainly approves of acceleration. MANY OTHER SCHOOLS do this as well. If accelerated students don't succeed on their first try, then they would be likely to have a go at it again.
Either way, not that many people accelerate at the school; most would go on to Year 11 and 12 normally, like you and I. Also, many new students from other schools enter James Ruse in Year 11 and they would have to go through the Preliminary and HSC course normally, just like the rest of the state.

- Saying that no one there has a life is a false stereotypical impression that many people have on the school (Probably because of their jealousy of the success of the school). I know people who go there who have perfectly well structured and balanced lifestyles. They have a nice balance between social and educational lives and this is a healthy way to get through the HSC. There are even some people I know (vaguely) who play the role of an "asian gangster" outside of school. I would daresay that the bottom half of the school would be just as smart as the normal average selective student in an average selective school. Very few students at the school would be considered to "have no life". Most students there are naturally gifted and talented and don't need to work a lot to gain good marks.

- James Ruse are not having an unfair advantage over schools. It's just that they have talented students to begin with and these gifted students are nurtured well up until the end of Year 12. They do not cheat the system and do not get special privileges from the BOS. I pity those who have that negative impression of the school rather than appreciate their success in education.

As far as I can tell, you are jealous of their success..................