James Ruse are cheaters and the BOS do not care. (1 Viewer)

[taco man]

The whole 'gifted' thing for most people I feel is BS. Are there some sort of standardised tests which are carried out on every student to determine if you should go to a selective school? are selective schools (of such a high calibre) available to everyone?

Yes, frequently its the parents who get their kids into tutoring in primary school in order for them to do good in the selective schools exam -> selective schools. So relly while some who go to selective schools may be 'gifted', other times its the wealth of the parents that gets them in. So u can't say that entry into those schools are standardised nor evenly available to everyone.

 

[sNiPeR_24]

People whinge too much.

Let Ruse go.

They dont do anything other than study anyway, they'll get nowhere.

Hahaha, Bravo!


I have no problem with them having this so-called 'advantage' over the rest of the state. They are damn hard workers and I know this because their performance ranks them first overall - that's not an easy accomplishment and it's one you can't get without many years of dedication to your schoolwork.

They are one school out of what, 600+ schools in the state? I know for certain I won't ever even come close to having the intellectual ability that some of these students possess, so it doesn't bother me a whole lot. But even if it did all I can do is try my hardest in the HSC and receive a deserving mark.

Some other states don't even have courses that require the skills our HSC does and as such you could argue they are disadvantaged by not being allowed to reach their full potential. What do we do in that case? Scrap the HSC and make a National Certificate of Education to make it fairer for the whole country? Things in life are inevitably going to unfair and it's best to learn to deal with them sooner rather than later so that you don't get into the habit of expecting things go your way all the time.

Let the babies have their bottles. You'll probably end up a more well-rounded human being in the end because you haven't had people boosting your ego by telling you you're better than everyone else for the last 6 years of high school.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

They are damn hard workers and I know this because their performance ranks them first overall

Our point is that perhaps it's not that they're "damn hard workers", they're basically just like us, but have an advantage.

 

[nwatts]

Most students there are naturally gifted and talented and don't need to work a lot to gain good marks.

That is not how the HSC works, my dear. You get marks for working hard, not for having any talent.

 

[sNiPeR_24]

Our point is that perhaps it's not that they're "damn hard workers", they're basically just like us, but have an advantage.

Yeah that could be true. The only way we'll know I guess is if they somehow make us all sit a common test to accurately pit us against them and see who genuinely has the better skills.

*Shrugs* If that's not the answer I don't know what is.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

We do sit a common test, the hsc.

 

[sNiPeR_24]

Yeah but I mean one they haven't had an 'advantage' in.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Why should gifted students skip the crap you don't need (yes, you really don't need it) and have a year longer to learn the material, while the rest of us get 1 year + a year of crap we don't need?

 

[sNiPeR_24]

Why should gifted students skip the crap you don't need (yes, you really don't need it) and have a year longer to learn the material, while the rest of us get 1 year + a year of crap we don't need?

However in maths you need the foundations learnt in year 9/10 to go on to year 11/12. These students dont simply walk in knowing these things, they still need to learn it, albeit in a shorter time, allowing them to extend earlier than other schools.

Some people say you need it, some people say you don't. And are we even fully sure this is going on? Are there any JR's around to tell us if this is actually happening (without lying or bias)?

 

[acmilan]

That is not how the HSC works, my dear. You get marks for working hard, not for having any talent.

Considering we're talking about maths mainly here, i'd like to say you wont get a state ranking by only working hard.

Some people say you need it, some people say you don't. And are we even fully sure this is going on? Are there any JR's around to tell us if this is actually happening (without lying or bias)?

In maths you definitely need the foundations, you can't start on yr 11 and 12 stuff by skipping yr 7-10, you need to learn it, whether it means at a normal or accelerated rate.

 

[xeia]

Look, why does everyone reckon that James Ruse has some sort of unfair advantage just because ONE moron reckons that in ONE maths past paper he looked at, there was a question that "might" involve HSC material. lets all see the question, first.

I go to James Ruse, and here is how it works
- you can accelerate subjects in uear 9 and 10 (e.g. software design. music) which means you have to sit the HSC for that subject in year ten. you don't get any extra time, and most people who sit these subjects don't end up counting them in their UAIs. it is mainly a way of getting experience of the HSC
- Ruse is in no way "The Board of studies poster child". we don't have anything to do with the board of studies. We just sit their exams
- From my experience, all the teachers were extremely careful not to teach anything HSC related until year eleven and 12. we have to follow the rules just like everyone else does
- as for maths, i can't seehow you can argue that there is specifically "HSC" stuff and "yr 9 and 10" stuff. we may have learned the foundations in more depth than other schools, but because its such a building process, in some ways you can't just stop at the limits of the syllabus without doing some extension. its not like in modern history or something where if you learn the topics earlier you have a distinct advantage. In maths, everything leads on to something more advanced
- i never learned integration, differentiation, or any other type of calculus, before yr 11, or complex numbers or any other four unit stuff before yr 12.
- as most of the stuff you learn in yr 9 and 10 is the basis for 2unit, and most ruse ppl go in and do 4unit and thus don't sit the 2 unit exam, it could hardly be said that we are getting an advantage even if we did do something early.

i hope you realise that there is no weird conspiracy, and that ppl at James Ruse are just ordinary people who put a lot of effort into their schoolwork. and yes, most of us do have a life.

 

[ogmzergrush]

Look, why does everyone reckon that James Ruse has some sort of unfair advantage just because ONE moron reckons that in ONE maths past paper he looked at, there was a question that "might" involve HSC material. lets all see the question, first.

I go to James Ruse, and here is how it works
- you can accelerate subjects in uear 9 and 10 (e.g. software design. music) which means you have to sit the HSC for that subject in year ten. you don't get any extra time, and most people who sit these subjects don't end up counting them in their UAIs. it is mainly a way of getting experience of the HSC
- Ruse is in no way "The Board of studies poster child". we don't have anything to do with the board of studies. We just sit their exams
- From my experience, all the teachers were extremely careful not to teach anything HSC related until year eleven and 12. we have to follow the rules just like everyone else does
- as for maths, i can't seehow you can argue that there is specifically "HSC" stuff and "yr 9 and 10" stuff. we may have learned the foundations in more depth than other schools, but because its such a building process, in some ways you can't just stop at the limits of the syllabus without doing some extension. its not like in modern history or something where if you learn the topics earlier you have a distinct advantage. In maths, everything leads on to something more advanced
- i never learned integration, differentiation, or any other type of calculus, before yr 11, or complex numbers or any other four unit stuff before yr 12.
- as most of the stuff you learn in yr 9 and 10 is the basis for 2unit, and most ruse ppl go in and do 4unit and thus don't sit the 2 unit exam, it could hardly be said that we are getting an advantage even if we did do something early.

i hope you realise that there is no weird conspiracy, and that ppl at James Ruse are just ordinary people who put a lot of effort into their schoolwork. and yes, most of us do have a life.

Young man this is no time for facts, or experience in what you're talking about!

 

[Templar]

I have to agree with acmilan on that in maths, all work and minimal talent will not get you anywhere 99.9% of the time.

If you believe that ext 2 topics should not be taught before year 12, does that mean what AMT doing is wrong, in teaching circle geometry and inequalities to year 10 that are much harder than the ones in the HSC?

 

[hopeles5ly]

look if u dont know something 100% then STFU and dont say it, unless you know all the facts. are any of u in the school (besides xeia) ? i didnt think so, and even if they did get to start the hsc course extra early (which i doubt) then why do u care huh? does this disadvantage u in such a way, like take 5 off ur UAI? NO. they just have the right attitude towards their studies and put in more effort than a lot of other people. example some people can start the course in YR8 and still get a fckn crap mark, because their lazy. They earn their marks, maybe thats why they have such high achievers. maybe if everyone in your skewl had that kinda of attitude and consistency, than the rankings will prob change dramatically.

.. this just shows how immature and ignorant some people are ..

 

[serge]

they should have their scaling reduced

you cant reduce scaling, they get harder tests than everyone
else thats why you cant reduce their scaling...

If you're soo concerned that they're being advantaged
start learning early by yourself

Its not like ALL Ruse people get 99.95
its just their average is much higher
than other schools...

 

[critiek]

look if u dont know something 100% then STFU and dont say it, unless you know all the facts. are any of u in the school (besides xeia) ? i didnt think so, and even if they did get to start the hsc course extra early (which i doubt) then why do u care huh? does this disadvantage u in such a way, like take 5 off ur UAI? NO. they just have the right attitude towards their studies and put in more effort than a lot of other people. example some people can start the course in YR8 and still get a fckn crap mark, because their lazy. They earn their marks, maybe thats why they have such high achievers. maybe if everyone in your skewl had that kinda of attitude and consistency, than the rankings will prob change dramatically.

.. this just shows how immature and ignorant some people are ..

Have you even read the whole thread and have any idea what the debate is over? Of course someone from JR would support the nurture and accelerate if they want to argument but that's not what we are talking about.

It's about them having extra time to learn HSC topics that other schools are given a specific time period to learn.

Conclusion: Because you didn't know that 100% you shouldn't of said it, hypocrite. I'm merely making a point with this thread not banishing their whole school into educational hell for all eternity.

errm
have you even seen a ruse maths exam?
not sure about ext2 but the mathematics and ext1 papers are pretty standard,
like any other schools exams

That is not true, if you look at their Yearly exam for Year 11 you'll see that it is not. Which other school has done the logs of natural numbers in class and got examine on it?

- It is PERFECTLY LEGAL to begin the Preliminary and HSC course at an early age. Have you ever heard of ACCELERATED STUDENTS? The BOS certainly approves of acceleration. MANY OTHER SCHOOLS do this as well. If accelerated students don't succeed on their first try, then they would be likely to have a go at it again.
Either way, not that many people accelerate at the school; most would go on to Year 11 and 12 normally, like you and I. Also, many new students from other schools enter James Ruse in Year 11 and they would have to go through the Preliminary and HSC course normally, just like the rest of the state.

- Saying that no one there has a life is a false stereotypical impression that many people have on the school (Probably because of their jealousy of the success of the school). I know people who go there who have perfectly well structured and balanced lifestyles. They have a nice balance between social and educational lives and this is a healthy way to get through the HSC. There are even some people I know (vaguely) who play the role of an "asian gangster" outside of school. I would daresay that the bottom half of the school would be just as smart as the normal average selective student in an average selective school. Very few students at the school would be considered to "have no life". Most students there are naturally gifted and talented and don't need to work a lot to gain good marks.

- James Ruse are not having an unfair advantage over schools. It's just that they have talented students to begin with and these gifted students are nurtured well up until the end of Year 12. They do not cheat the system and do not get special privileges from the BOS. I pity those who have that negative impression of the school rather than appreciate their success in education.

As far as I can tell, you are jealous of their success..................

If they're so talented why would they need an extra few years/months to prep them up for HSC maths? Is this "furthering talent" and "nurturing"? NSB is currently the top performing boys school at maths, you don't see them starting anything that is in the Year 12 course before year 12 and if you look at their exams the hardest it gets too is complex maximisation and minimisation problems - not log of e and advanced used of trigonometric functions.

"I know (vaguely) who play the role of an "asian gangster" outside of school."

I know that's a load of nonesense. At the most you have 2 people in the whole school who smoke, do you know what an Asian gangster is? They get stabbed when they step into the wrong suburb, there are no JR gangsters. If you are referring to a person with the initial MH then I know him, he is a lowlife who started to smoke and carry around a knife when he joined JR in Year 11. I talk to JR students and they talk about how he is scary - not really, he is a thick as a twig and the wind would blow him over.

Not back to the subject at hand

 

[Jago]

omg smoking is so gangsta!!111

 

[hopeles5ly]

Have you even read the whole thread and have any idea what the debate is over? Of course someone from JR would support the nurture and accelerate if they want to argument but that's not what we are talking about.

It's about them having extra time to learn HSC topics that other schools are given a specific time period to learn.

Conclusion: Because you didn't know that 100% you shouldn't of said it, hypocrite. I'm merely making a point with this thread not banishing their whole school into educational hell for all eternity.



That is not true, if you look at their Yearly exam for Year 11 you'll see that it is not. Which other school has done the logs of natural numbers in class and got examine on it?



If they're so talented why would they need an extra few years/months to prep them up for HSC maths? Is this "furthering talent" and "nurturing"? NSB is currently the top performing boys school at maths, you don't see them starting anything that is in the Year 12 course before year 12 and if you look at their exams the hardest it gets too is complex maximisation and minimisation problems - not log of e and advanced used of trigonometric functions.

"I know (vaguely) who play the role of an "asian gangster" outside of school."

I know that's a load of nonesense. At the most you have 2 people in the whole school who smoke, do you know what an Asian gangster is? They get stabbed when they step into the wrong suburb, there are no JR gangsters. If you are referring to a person with the initial MH then I know him, he is a lowlife who started to smoke and carry around a knife when he joined JR in Year 11. I talk to JR students and they talk about how he is scary - not really, he is a thick as a twig and the wind would blow him over.

Not back to the subject at hand

yes i know what the whole debate is about, but why dont u get around the point im trying to make huh? and if u read my statement you see that i do mension it. so don't call me no "hypocrite or whatever because i know what im saying.

 

[Wooz]

Im going to a selective school next year to start of yr 11 and the current yr 10's have already started on their yr 11/hsc topics, their yr 10 advanced maths class is already doing 3 unit maths.

 

[wrong_turn]

i remember in year 10 since we were maths 1, we started learning yr 11 3u maths after school certificate. also for science, the advanced classes would learn chemistry and physics for prelims.

i dont see anything wrong with it. if they have finishsed it in 2 lessons of which an average school takes 3 weeks on, then shouldnt they continue to teach them new stuff?

that is the whole point of schooling; to learn. howevever do you expect them to dwardle and bludge playing mindless games? you have to continue their education. and if it requires challenging them with harder questions that require higher methods, then let them learn it.

you forget that they take the top of the top students in the state in the selective test. in this case, their standard deviation would be much higher than any other school, therefore higher scaling.