'Make Poverty History' (4 Viewers)

[paper cup]

Even though the definitions (I would say measurements) differ, that doesn't mean that the poverty in Australia is of no consequence or that the idea of what you call 'democracy' is justified merely because a nation-state is seeking economic development (normally at the expense of social and environmental conditions).

As for the point that I raised in my previous post, it was just a general observation that i was likely to raise at some stage.

but I wonder who the some people could have been.

I never said that it was not an important issue, just that the developing and developed world standards of 'poverty' are different and this point should be recognised. I'm saying that the poor in our country have more opportunities, thus my empathy is more with the people in Africa. A lot of people come here wiht nothing and work their way up, it is just not possible there.

It raises an interesting question though, should we concentrate on helping the least fortunate in faraway countries most of us haven't been to, or on the less fortunate closer to home?

Edit: I think you fail to realise the intrinstic relationship between the economy society and environment. triple bottom line isn't it? Without an economic base you cannot have a society or environment conforming to developing world standards. One example: if you can't afford to feed your kid how are you going to dredge money up to take them to ballet class? What is more important? I don't support regimes that - sacrifice human rights and environmental standards for profit but while part of it is corruption and individual greed some of it is due to necessity.

 

[Generator]

Edit: I think you fail to realise the intrinstic relationship between the economy society and environment. triple bottom line isn't it? Without an economic base you cannot have a society or environment conforming to developing world standards. One example: if you can't afford to feed your kid how are you going to dredge money up to take them to ballet class? What is more important? I don't support regimes that - sacrifice human rights and environmental standards for profit but while part of it is corruption and individual greed some of it is due to necessity.

Believe it or not, CB, but even though I may not be as neoliberal or pro-economic development as some on this forum, I do understand the concept of the triple bottom line (that all should be considered as being of equal importance in determing outcomes and programmes, not that one must, or has to, precede the other two).

 

[paper cup]

Believe it or not, CB, but even though I may not be as neoliberal or pro-economic development as some on this forum, I do understand the concept of the triple bottom line (that all should be considered as being of equal importance in determing outcomes and programmes, not that one must precede the other two).

there's a box relationship - I've only very briefly covered this in chemistry, of all subjects, however, your comment here

the idea of what you call 'democracy' is justified merely because a nation-state is seeking economic development (normally at the expense of social and environmental conditions).

sort of negates any claim to your fully understanding that concept.

 

[Generator]

your comment here



sort of negates any claim to your fully understanding that concept.

Ah, sorry? I'm at a loss at the moment. Could you possibly explain what it is that you mean?

 

[paper cup]

Ah, sorry? I'm at a loss at the moment. Could you possibly explain what it is that you mean?

I'm on painkillers. sorry.
I meant that your comment is sort of contradictory to your claim that you understand the 'Triple Bottom Line' concept.

 

[Generator]

I'm on painkillers. sorry.
I meant that your comment is sort of contradictory to your claim that you understand the 'Triple Bottom Line' concept.

...

I got that (I'm not that idiotic). I wanted to know how it was contradictory?

 

[paper cup]

...

I got that (I'm not that idiotic). I wanted to know how it was contradictory?

like I said, I'm on painkillers and people sometimes have trouble understanding me when I speak.

The economy is the backbone of everything, including society and the environment. If you don't have the money, for example, to feed your people, then obviously you're not going to have the money to install TVs in gaols or implement programs to rehabilitate polluted mine sites. Right now the focus in developing countries should be to first develop the economy, and then things such as democracy. Let me see if I can find that diagram from the UC site.

 

[Generator]

like I said, I'm on painkillers and people sometimes have trouble understanding me when I speak.

The economy is the backbone of everything, including society and the environment. If you don't have the money, for example, to feed your people, then obviously you're not going to have the money to install TVs in gaols or implement programs to rehabilitate polluted mine sites. Right now the focus in developing countries should be to first develop the economy, and then things such as democracy. Let me see if I can find that diagram from the UC site.

Don't bother, because it's quite clear that my understanding differs to your own. For what's worth, the economy is no more the backbone of the other two than they are of the economy.

 

[paper cup]

Don't bother, because it's quite clear that my understanding differs to your own. For what's worth, the economy is no more the backbone of the other two than they are of the economy.

would you like to explain that to me?
unfortunately in the modern world nothing can be done without money, especially not in the developing world.

 

[withoutaface]

The countries need to have an industrial revolution of sorts, to shift the focus at least partially from agriculture to manufacturing, and large improvements in the economy and quality of life will soon follow if they are governed properly.

 

[paper cup]

The countries need to have an industrial revolution of sorts, to shift the focus at least partially from agriculture to manufacturing, and large improvements in the economy and quality of life will soon follow if they are governed properly.

which is what I have been trying to say. you can't have everything all at once.

 

[azzie]

if they have a corrupt, dictatorial government and are getting the benifits of improved living standards, they wont ever think to get the government out of office (well, they wouldnt if they're dictators neway). plus the fact that many of the policies of such government suck money out of the economy with protectionist policies, their own corrupt spending etc rather than letting market forces determine where funds are alocated.
point being you need political reform first before you can have TRUE economic reform

 

[azzie]

I'm waiting for the refreshing event of a benefactorial dictator who gets off being nice to his country and implementing radical but effective policies and spending plans to improve the plight of his people.

Fundamentally it is SO MUCH NICER doing good for people than sitting around devising ways to fuck them over.

you were born some 50 years too late.
that happened in Socialist Yugoslavia.

 

[JoeysBoy]

Not to mention what Athens did in the Delian League 2500 years ago

 

[JoeysBoy]

Humanity has no hope. History keeps repeating itself because of particular issues that constantly arise.

My mum, a professed HISTORY teacher told me she would support the dropping of a nuke or whatever on hongkong (or where ever the capital of china is) if the chinese invaded the South East-Asia Pacific region. This is coming from a history teacher? Imagine what the majority of uneducated people are like!! ROFLMAO! Sad sad place...

Particular issues cannot be resolved because people want/need different things. The African situation... I'd say can b e resolved, but what are the consequences? The west are acting as though they are the hero's! (which they are becauseof their finncial wealth) Who is to stop China, the fastest growing economic machine today from saying... "Hey! I don't like the way Australians are living! Why not send an army there to kill howard and replace their government with a communist one!" Which is exactly what the Americans will do to the Africans in a few years time due to their... how do we say... arrogance. Sorry for the harsh words against the Americans but... meh...

The world is but a mutha fukin huge catch 22...

 

[Alimoe_KG]

Since i'm going to be living in this huge mother fucking catch 22 of a world, i would like to hold a more optimistic view of society and imagine people like your mother are in the minority and will be nowhere near a position of power.

 

[withoutaface]

Humanity has no hope. History keeps repeating itself because of particular issues that constantly arise.

My mum, a professed HISTORY teacher told me she would support the dropping of a nuke or whatever on hongkong (or where ever the capital of china is) if the chinese invaded the South East-Asia Pacific region. This is coming from a history teacher? Imagine what the majority of uneducated people are like!! ROFLMAO! Sad sad place...

Particular issues cannot be resolved because people want/need different things. The African situation... I'd say can b e resolved, but what are the consequences? The west are acting as though they are the hero's! (which they are becauseof their finncial wealth) Who is to stop China, the fastest growing economic machine today from saying... "Hey! I don't like the way Australians are living! Why not send an army there to kill howard and replace their government with a communist one!" Which is exactly what the Americans will do to the Africans in a few years time due to their... how do we say... arrogance. Sorry for the harsh words against the Americans but... meh...

The world is but a mutha fukin huge catch 22...

How the fuck can you not know the capital of China?

 

[JoeysBoy]

How the fuck can you not know the capital of China?

lol yeah... I remembered it just after I perssed "submit reply"... its beijing! Muahaha

Since i'm going to be living in this huge mother fucking catch 22 of a world, i would like to hold a more optimistic view of society and imagine people like your mother are in the minority and will be nowhere near a position of power.

And yes Airness, I don't need you to totally cut my ego. I know people like my mother shouldn't be in power, though it does happen (i.e. bush) And I'm just trying to lay my own point of view. Try and be a little more diplomatic with your answer.

I don't like my own point of view, its just a series and "putting together" of events throughout the short life (up to today) of the human race. Pursuade me that Humanity does have hope and I will GLADLY become an optimist.

 

[JoeysBoy]

And what do you think the majority of posters in this thread think? Are their posts pesimistic or optimistic? Sorry for my earlier reply. It was a bit up-in, but essentially, what is the difference? ~~~

 

[Alimoe_KG]

And yes Airness, I don't need you to totally cut my ego. I know people like my mother shouldn't be in power, though it does happen (i.e. bush) And I'm just trying to lay my own point of view. Try and be a little more diplomatic with your answer.

I don't like my own point of view, its just a series and "putting together" of events throughout the short life (up to today) of the human race. Pursuade me that Humanity does have hope and I will GLADLY become an optimist.

Fuck diplomacy. Diplomacy is for balding assholes misrepresenting nations.

Firstly, you tell me what series of events persuaded you to think the world is on an exponentially downward curve with no hope of a turning point.

Personally, i think that yes the world is pretty shitty right now. But the majority of the world's population is still decent people and as live 8 demonstrated, is still willing to come out and help their fellow human beings. Just because there is strife in areas of the world, it doesn't mean you shouuld discount the rest of the world where in places such as say...Sydney, people are leading normal happy civilised lives.

Conflict is inherent in history. But the way we cope with it and not give up our daily way of life over it is sure evidence that the world isn't doomed into the shithold you envision.