Muslim headscarves (2 Viewers)

[Sweets]

Having read Ramadan's book, Western Muslims and the Future of Islam and done my ISP on him. I found nothing to suggest that he is either sexist, reactionary or propogates a literal interpreation of the Qu'ran.

In fact in Western Muslims and the Future of Islam, he argues that Muslims need to contextualise their faith for their environment and most importantly suggests that Islam and the West are not two divergent or opposing fields, and that people can retain both their European and Islamic identity.

While he may have his detractors, and seriously it seems you can't win eithr way. I feel he speaks to a much wider mainstram Muslim and Western audience.

The Jewish Council for racial equality- Professor Ramadan’s views appear to concentrate on the complexity of issues, rather than alleged extremism. (sourceFriday September 2, 2005 Guardian)

And that is precisely what Ms. Manji fails to do.

 

[soha]

the 2ic service manager put the hejab(headscalf) on permanently on friday
we work at woolies
and she was a bit weary but she told me shes not scared of anyone and what they may think or do
so its all good
kinda gave me the encouragement and reassurance to put it on myself
i think thats what has been holding me back..work and stuff...oh well in time..(hopefully soon) inshallah

 

[Generator]

Hijab means different things to Westerners and Muslims

 

[HotShot]

i dont think headscarves are l inked with equality. I cant understand how they are linked-how is a person wearing headscarf not equal to the rest of the people? are you saying just cos women wear it, it is unequal i.e discrimination--that doesnt make sense cos firstly:

noone is forcing them to wear it
its your choice to wear it
men can wear it too, if they want

now lets look into a "muslim headscarf"--well its not any different

-if you want to wear you can, if you dont want to fine
-noone is forcing you to wear it
-you dont have to be a muslim to wear it


as far i can see a 'muslim headscarf' is not about eqaulity, but people just want to cricticize the religion, um do you hear people talking about the jewish hats or the christian cross? or even the hindu dot.

Men and women can wear the scarf if they wish, so i cant see how it is unequal.

 

[googooloo]

i dont think headscarves are l inked with equality. I cant understand how they are linked-how is a person wearing headscarf not equal to the rest of the people? are you saying just cos women wear it, it is unequal i.e discrimination--that doesnt make sense cos firstly:

noone is forcing them to wear it
its your choice to wear it
men can wear it too, if they want

now lets look into a "muslim headscarf"--well its not any different

-if you want to wear you can, if you dont want to fine
-noone is forcing you to wear it
-you dont have to be a muslim to wear it


as far i can see a 'muslim headscarf' is not about eqaulity, but people just want to cricticize the religion, um do you hear people talking about the jewish hats or the christian cross? or even the hindu dot.

Men and women can wear the scarf if they wish, so i cant see how it is unequal.

Um, wen u say men and women can were the scarf I think u are being greatly misled by whoever told u that, unless u mean the male version of a a female muslims headscarf,w hich would be a hat, or turbin which muhammad (saw) wore whenever he was outside,a dn told othe muslim men to do the same because it highlights the face, which is the idea of the femalecoverings as well. For a man to wear hijab is haram, it is a female attribute on a man, haram. (haram is illegal).

And it is a choice, but only when u wish to take it up. Muslim FEMALES MUST wear hijab some time in THEIR life. It is beign forced upon muslim females by Allah(swt), but u don't feel forces (as one who wears it) because I understand why I am to wear it, and I don't question the word of Allah (swt). You dont; really say u r beign forced though, it is an OBLIGATION of the religion not of culture. Cultures have diff. versions of the hijab....hijab doesnt' jsut mean the coverign it means the kind of pure innerstate of being when one wears it...innerhijab.

But u are rigt in saying it is just like the hindu red dot, the christian cross and te jewish cap.

 

[googooloo]

the 2ic service manager put the hejab(headscalf) on permanently on friday
we work at woolies
and she was a bit weary but she told me shes not scared of anyone and what they may think or do
so its all good
kinda gave me the encouragement and reassurance to put it on myself
i think thats what has been holding me back..work and stuff...oh well in time..(hopefully soon) inshallah

salam, ishallah in time....it is true, i was not nevervous about putting it on myself (but my parenst were--non-muslim =more worry) because I saw it as an obligation and I knew I must do it for Allah (SWT) and if u do it for Allah(SWT) and are pursected for it or killed for not taking it off u will see jannah. So do not worry, besides all will work right for muslims in the end, or so I believe. Pursection cannot happen as it used to, and more ppl are aware of it when it does happen, So do not worry sister. Inshallah in time.

 

[Generator]

And it is a choice, but only when u wish to take it up. Muslim FEMALES MUST wear hijab some time in THEIR life.

What about the men? I am forever being told that men who follow the Islamic faith should wear a particular item/style of clothing, but is it something that they must do? If it is, then in a country such as Australia, why does it not appear to be as common as the hijab?

 

[AsyLum]

googooloo: Really? I was told otherwise when we had an Islamic speaker at Macquarie the other night. She said it was not compulsory at any stage, and that it came down to a cultural thing, rather than as a Moslem decree.

 

[Sepulchres]

googooloo: Really? I was told otherwise when we had an Islamic speaker at Macquarie the other night. She said it was not compulsory at any stage, and that it came down to a cultural thing, rather than as a Moslem decree.

Was it Irshad Maji?

 

[AsyLum]

Was it Irshad Maji?

Zubeda Raihman

Shes a member of the women's inter-faith council/group, cant remember the details.

http://www.fecca.org.au/index.html That one

 

[Sepulchres]

Yea I dont think I've heard of her...

 

[tempco]

What about the men? I am forever being told that men who follow the Islamic faith should wear a particular item/style of clothing, but is it something that they must do? If it is, then in a country such as Australia, why does it not appear to be as common as the hijab?

forever being told? by whom?

in terms of appearance, men are required to grow a beard. a clean, well-groomed one in fact. as far as a certain style of clothing goes, i've never heard of such a requirement.

googooloo: Really? I was told otherwise when we had an Islamic speaker at Macquarie the other night. She said it was not compulsory at any stage, and that it came down to a cultural thing, rather than as a Moslem decree.

the headscarf is part of islam. the veil and burqa, however, are cultural items.

 

[googooloo]

Enough weighing up with the qualifications. Quite frankly, as I have stated, it is irrelevant for our argument. It's time to get down to reason.

Women must wear a piece of clothing that covers their body (for the purposes of inhibiting indecent thoughts in men). That is simply a silly, old literalist reading of a religious text. When a religious text clashes with reason it is best to reject those portions which are against the faculty of the mind. If a book tells you that "stoning people for stealing is okay", then it is best to reject that part of it. If a book tells you that "gay people are bad", then it is best to reject that part of it.

Likewise, the part of a book that tells women they must cover up for those purposes should also be rejected. There is a point where religion becomes dogma. This can allow it to become dangerous, antiquated and irrational.

If u take only parts of a religion and apply them then u are not of that religion,a nd when u accept soem and through away others u are not of that religion and then u begint o change and subvert the religion. You are eithr a Muslim that accepts all the teachings or u are not. All are words of Allah(SWT)

 

[Generator]

forever being told? by whom?

in terms of appearance, men are required to grow a beard. a clean, well-groomed one in fact. as far as a certain style of clothing goes, i've never heard of such a requirement.

Many on this forum seem to be suggesting that that is the case.

 

[googooloo]

in terms of appearance, men are required to grow a beard. a clean, well-groomed one in fact. as far as a certain style of clothing goes, i've never heard of such a requirement.

You should have, male hijab is to coverto the knees & elbows, women is to ankles & wrists + hijab.

You should as a male were also loose clothing jsut as women, not tight bumb showing clothes of peck showing shirts. It is as simple as that.

 

[googooloo]

What about the men? I am forever being told that men who follow the Islamic faith should wear a particular item/style of clothing, but is it something that they must do? If it is, then in a country such as Australia, why does it not appear to be as common as the hijab?

Men is ankles to elbows, and prefeably a hat of some sort as muhammad (SAW) told his male followers to do so. Your clothign must also be loose like females.

 

[AsyLum]

Wow, well, see here is the point she was making, that in the Qur'an that there are no specific dress codes as such, just dress modestly as not to stir sexual attention? And from what she told us, that was the term for hijab, rather than the headress itself?

Verse 33:59 mentions that believers "draw their cloaks close round them (when they go out)"and (024.031) "And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards God, that ye may attain Bliss."

I believe, historically, this is around the 7th Century CE?

 

[googooloo]

googooloo: Really? I was told otherwise when we had an Islamic speaker at Macquarie the other night. She said it was not compulsory at any stage, and that it came down to a cultural thing, rather than as a Moslem decree.

People interepret the readings differently. After hearing other ppls views and reading up for myself I find it to be islam. Maybe this will help:

Hadith1.148
The wives of the Prophet used to go to Al-Manasi, a vast open place (near Baqia at Medina) to answer the call of nature at night. 'Umar used to say to the Prophet "Let your wives be veiled," but Allah's Apostle did not do so. One night Sauda bint Zam'a the wife of the Prophet went out at 'Isha' time and she was a tall lady. 'Umar addressed her and said, "I have recognized you, O Sauda." He said so, as he desired eagerly that the verses of Al-Hijab (the observing of veils by the Muslim women) may be revealed. So Allah revealed the verses of "Al-Hijab" (A complete body cover excluding the eyes).

So to Muhammad(swt) was revealed that weraing hijab was to be, and if hte women of Muhammad's time did so while he was alive then it must be religion, becuase Muhammad (swt) would know must of what was revealed to him, he would understand it most of all. therefore, if he said cover yourselves then it must be religion adn must be compulsory.

and:

Hadith 6.313
I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Good and bad persons enter upon you, so I suggest that you order the mothers of the Believers (i.e. your wives) to observe veils." Then Allah revealed the Verses of Al-Hijab.

 

[tempco]

Women must wear a piece of clothing that covers their body (for the purposes of inhibiting indecent thoughts in men).

incorrect. if wearing a scarf was just merely because of the desires of men, who would wear the scarf? why should women be subjected to wearing something because of horny men?

the purpose of the hijab can't accurately be summarised by one "reason". different women wear it for different reasons.

That is simply a silly, old literalist reading of a religious text. When a religious text clashes with reason it is best to reject those portions which are against the faculty of the mind. If a book tells you that "stoning people for stealing is okay", then it is best to reject that part of it. If a book tells you that "gay people are bad", then it is best to reject that part of it.

Likewise, the part of a book that tells women they must cover up for those purposes should also be rejected. There is a point where religion becomes dogma. This can allow it to become dangerous, antiquated and irrational.

and what if there are no portions that go against reason? what if everything i know about my religion makes sense?

 

[AsyLum]

People interepret the readings differently. After hearing other ppls views and reading up for myself I find it to be islam.

the purpose of the hijab can't accurately be summarised by one "reason". different women wear it for different reasons.

See this is the reason im getting confused

It IS compulsory to wear it. But the reasoning behind it varies? Am i right in saying this?