Muslim headscarves (3 Viewers)

[TerrbleSpellor]

don't get pedantic, as if the States of Australia aren't under the bloomin Commonwealth.

The commonwealth constitution only applies to the federal level......

 

[aileenli]

There is a reason the clothes we wear to school are called UNIFORMS! they are supposed to be equilisers and either we all wear hijabs to school or we dont. It should all be equal.

 

[samuelblayden]

shouldn't be banned

 

[SashatheMan]

hmm, why was i told to tuck my shirt in, and wear black shoes when i went to school? I followed my ideology of being comfortable and wearing clothes that supported my belief of good fashion. I got denied my beliefs becuase i had to wear appropriate school uniform. Hmm i guess that doesnt apply to muslims.....

 

[MoonlightSonata]

don't get pedantic, as if the States of Australia aren't under the bloomin Commonwealth.

^ This is exactly why I think everyone should be forced to take a basic civics/society class in high school.

States have different powers than the Commonwealth.

Why do you think we have Federal and State elections? They are different parliaments.

 

[dani_123_5]

why should it be banned? it is their religion and their bodies. if they are going to ban that they might as well say "we are going to ban hats too because not everyone wears hats and we want everyone to be equal" its a load of horse shit. i bet if any of you wanted to wear a scarf round ur head they wouldnt stop you so why stop muslims from wearing what they want to wear?

 

[phemale_souljah]

The essential effect that has from our point of view, talking about the independence of the States, is that in seeking to maintain their independence, seeking to decide what sorts of political initiatives they may care to make, the States have to face the fact that in virtually any case of Constitutional doubt they will lose in a context where we have an ambiguous Constitution. So, you may say the States do occasionally win

I'm well aware of the difference between the differing arms and levels of government. With regards to this particular issue of headscarves, the expression and practice of religion is rightly justified (until now) in every state of the Commonwealth of Australia. If a ban were enforced would that not be a federal issue? They wouldn't make it so that Musilms all relocate from say NSW to QLD,just because NSW ruled hijabs illegal, would they??

Thus, my point when saying not to be pedantic, is that indeed, each state may have its own constitution and arms of government, but inherently when coming to an issue which is of national concern amidst such a multicultural environment, and not to mention, one which is mentioned in the federal constitution yet readily acknowledged at state level, we are all citizens of the Commonwealth of Australia.

 

[Generator]

The suggestion was that headscarf be banned in public schools (to my knowledge, nobody of at least some mainstream standing went so far as to suggest that the hijab be banned outright).

You seem to be of the opinion that this is a multicultural nation-state. Well, for the record, it's primarily an anglo-celtic nation-state within which minority groups are given free reign to express themselves culturally, and when such cultures have been brought into the mainstream rather than be accepted in their entirety, they are merely commodified in part and celebrated in a tokenistic sense. We aren't as culturally diverse as many seem to be believe, but at the same time cultural expressions are far from being homogenous, too.

Finally, as has been said by more than one person, the constitution restricts the Commonwealth in this regard, not the states, and as such the states appear to be more than within their rights to ban the headscarves from public schools if they so choose (which they will not).

 

[Lucy257]

i only have a major issue with it from a feminist point of view. islam is such a mysoginistic religion. *grumble grumble*

 

[MoonlightSonata]

I'm well aware of the difference between the differing arms and levels of government. With regards to this particular issue of headscarves, the expression and practice of religion is rightly justified (until now) in every state of the Commonwealth of Australia. If a ban were enforced would that not be a federal issue? They wouldn't make it so that Musilms all relocate from say NSW to QLD,just because NSW ruled hijabs illegal, would they??

Thus, my point when saying not to be pedantic, is that indeed, each state may have its own constitution and arms of government, but inherently when coming to an issue which is of national concern amidst such a multicultural environment, and not to mention, one which is mentioned in the federal constitution yet readily acknowledged at state level, we are all citizens of the Commonwealth of Australia.

We effectively are "dual citizens". That is the nature of a Federal system. You are a citizen of the Commonwealth and of NSW. You are bound by both laws. Here's how it works.

The Federal Parliament makes laws (for the whole of Australia) within their powers under the Constitution.

The States make laws (for their states only) within their powers under the Constitution.

The States are not restricted by a Commonwealth restriction on legislation with regards to religion, hence they can pass whatever laws they want (for their state) on religion.

Religious freedoms only apply at the Federal level, so there is a big difference. If the Howard government wanted to ban headscarves there may be a restriction there. But if the NSW government wanted to ban headscarves they would be legally entitled to do so.

 

[phemale_souljah]

^^ Thanks Moonlight, to be honest I already knew that, you have accentuated everything with a bit more clarity.

Needless to say, we are in fact limited by both federal and state legislation, and any move on these levels to ban the hijab would effectively impact on us as dual citizens. right?

Okay this might have drawn away from the actual issue at hand...NO the hijab should NOT be banned, under federal or state legislation, and though the constitution mentions our freedom to religion, states shall not waver in support of this fundamental freedom.

 

[googooloo]

This is true. By banning hijab you take away one of our civil liberties, one of the australian peoples rights, everyones rights, to have thier freedom to religion and to display religios symbols comes with this right. The hijab is this, as it is a commmandment of god to the muslim women, in al-hijab revelation on to prophet muhammad (PBUH).

 

[ur_inner_child]

i only have a major issue with it from a feminist point of view. islam is such a mysoginistic religion. *grumble grumble*

no its not

as i have said time and time and again, if you use our western cultural values to understand someone else's values, you will misinterpret the culture.

our culture; skin = freedom & liberation & choice

islam; covering skin = freedom from the pyring eye

and i know that sounds ridiculous, but I had this weird experience when I was on a ship, waiting for my boyfriend to confirm shit with the captain, and their crew had been at sea for weeks and weeks, and when they saw me, with my jeans and shirt, i seriously felt terrible... it made me physically sick. even just my arms exposed, they couldn't keep their eyes off me, so I went to my boyfriend and hid behind him.

Do you know what I mean????

I physically felt like I needed to "cover up" to be free. But nevertheless, I'm a western orientated person, but at that moment I honestly understood the islam way of thinking. on the ship I was an object, and if I had been covered up, they wouldn't look at me. It's freedom in an entirely different perspective.

 

[Generator]

That's just indicative of the way in which all societies view women, uic. One allows for freedom of physical expression yet still doesn't offer an adequate level of respect for women to freely express themselves in a physical sense, and the other seeks to avoid the issue in its entirety by requiring women (and men, to a lesser extent) to cover up, in effect suggesting that both sexes should ignore a major part of our humanity.

Though there is much more to each person than the physical body, it isn't as though it can just be denied, and as far as I'm concerned any suggestions to the contrary belong in the distant past. Still, as a society we still have much to achieve ourselves in terms of the levels of respect afforded to women (and men, I should add for people such as phanatical).

 

[Hanzo]

dey already haf a bann on dat head thingy in singapore schools !!!
heahahaehe

 

[googooloo]

That's just indicative of the way in which all societies view women, uic. One allows for freedom of physical expression yet still doesn't offer an adequate level of respect for women to freely express themselves in a physical sense, and the other seeks to avoid the issue in its entirety by requiring women (and men, to a lesser extent) to cover up, in effect suggesting that both sexes should ignore a major part of our humanity.

Though there is much more to each person than the physical body, it isn't as though it can just be denied, and as far as I'm concerned any suggestions to the contrary belong in the distant past. Still, as a society we still have much to achieve ourselves in terms of the levels of respect afforded to women (and men, I should add for people such as phanatical).

But you see muslim women who do cover up, like it, they find it better. You don't need the body to show off to have respect and freedom. To cover up is more respect yes, but women don't feel oppressed doing it, unless they've been tried wrongly through it, you now psychological crap, blah blah, cna't think of the words to use for it right now. But you get what i'm trying to say right?

I can say as a muslim woman who covers up, that i have more fun this way. No one pushed me into it, i did it on my own, during my own studies. And i want to fulfill al obligations to ALLAH (AWT) as he has given me the pleasure of life, of a sound body, mind, and soul for seeing the truth of islam. I feel freedom through covering, not through revealing the skin. I used think that was the way, to reveal, then i found it was only doom and full of crappiness. I detest it now.

 

[veterandoggy]

dey already haf a bann on dat head thingy in singapore schools !!!
heahahaehe

lmao. man, you dont know how retarded you sound like "head thingy". hehe, maybe you should read this thread's title.

kids....

 

[googooloo]

What made you change?

Well islam taught about covering up. Then I began to understand that this was better. I now do command more respect. Just the other day, a schoolies bunch of idiot guys were in a car next to me and when i looked at the screaming whooligans, they bowed to me and respected me. Does that satisfy you?

 

[SashatheMan]

But you see muslim women who do cover up, like it, they find it better. You don't need the body to show off to have respect and freedom. To cover up is more respect yes, but women don't feel oppressed doing it, unless they've been tried wrongly through it, you now psychological crap, blah blah, cna't think of the words to use for it right now. But you get what i'm trying to say right?

I can say as a muslim woman who covers up, that i have more fun this way. No one pushed me into it, i did it on my own, during my own studies. And i want to fulfill al obligations to ALLAH (AWT) as he has given me the pleasure of life, of a sound body, mind, and soul for seeing the truth of islam. I feel freedom through covering, not through revealing the skin. I used think that was the way, to reveal, then i found it was only doom and full of crappiness. I detest it now.

you want to cover up the body that allah has given you? thats very disrespectful to him , as you choose to egnore his gift of a body and hide it. Whyt not walk around naked and show off allahs gifts, it will make him proud.

 

[veterandoggy]

you want to cover up the body that allah has given you? thats very disrespectful to him , as you choose to egnore his gift of a body and hide it. Whyt not walk around naked and show off allahs gifts, it will make him proud.

well, that wasnt the practice of the prophet, it was the practice of some pagans when they circumambulated the ka'bah in pre-islamic times. and also allah gave us clothing to clothe ourselves.

if you want people to walk around naked so badly you will see every one to have lived naked anyway... but i shouldnt continue, since "it hasnt happened, and since there is no proof that it is going to happen, it wont happen"