"Muslims are Masters of the world" - A Deluded drone and Propoganda (2 Viewers)

[Ba'al Shem Tov]

The writing system for numerals, smartass. But if you really want to go into it, you might be surprised that the Latin writing system that English uses descends from the Greek, which in turn descends from the Phoenician, which is the father of virtually every alphabet in existence sans Korean Hangul. And the Phoenicians were a middle-eastern people.

Actually, the Phoenicians origins are in question. They are believed to have either have been Minoans (making them Greek) or Philistines who in themselves originated from Greece. So, they were not a middle-eastern as opposed to mediteraneans. So it can be said that Greece invented the Phoenecian alphabet abroad, returned it to Greece where they developed it into a system that could be used properly and then spread it to create the Gothic, Glagolitic, Cyrillic, Coptic and Latin alphabet.

And all that aside - Phoenicians were not Muslim.

And let's not even get into the amount of loanwords English has from Arabic.

Like Jihad and Tabuli?

If by Arabic you mean Greek, Latin and French then there is no reason to get into the amount of loanwords that have been derived for English. But to say Arabic is the foundation of many English words is funny.

 

[Ba'al Shem Tov]

Following WW2, the USSR had some of the most advanced technology in the world however. But look at it now. I'd live in Turkey any day before I lived in one of those Eastern European countries, especially Russia.

See the wonders there. Turkey stops being an Islamic state and embraces secularlism within its government and policy and it becomes an attractive country.
Mustafa Kemal Ataturk [peace be upon him]

 

[PrinceHarry]

You've yet to show me how technology and superior Western intellectual brilliance has anything to do with the Ottoman collapse. The Ottomans were primarily driven out of Europe by their own former subjects, ie the people of Serbia and Bosnia etc. I'd venture to say that they did not have superior technology to the Ottomans. And the Russians certainly did not.

Western technological superiority over islamic ottoman empire was the reason why they were defeated even by such tiny nations as Venice. The west developed machine guns and battle ships powered by steam engine while ottomans are still using wind and human powered ships and sword. Read this Europe dealt its first serious blow to the Ottoman Empire in the battle of Lepanto in 1571, where Turkey suffered a naval defeat against the Spanish and the Venetians. In the 18th century, the Russo-Turkish wars resulted in further disintegration of the state. By the 19th century, Turkey was known as the ‘Sick Man of Europe’.
Serbia and Bosnia drove turks out of balkans with the help of Russians and Austria-Hungary who have defeated Ottamans repeatedly in various wars such as
Russo-Turkish War (1676–1681)
Russo-Turkish War (1686–1700)
Russo-Turkish War (1710–1711)
Russo-Turkish War (1735–1739)
Russo-Turkish War (1768–1774)
Russo-Turkish War (1787–1792)
Russo-Turkish War (1806–1812)
Russo-Turkish War (1828–1829)
Russo-Turkish War (1877–1878)
In almost each war ottoman empire continued losing territories. While technologically superior western countries such as Britain are able to maintain and control their territories half way around the world, and even forced Ottoman to cede Cyprus which is stone throw away from Turkey, Ottoman empire was unable to control its own territory in the mid east, and north africa not to talk of balkans becacuse it failed to modernise its miltiary. One by one each territory demand autonomy and independence with the encouragement from the west, Otoman empire due to its backwardness and unable to match western technology in wars have to say yes instead of fighting.

Following WW2, the USSR had some of the most advanced technology in the world however. But look at it now. I'd live in Turkey any day before I lived in one of those Eastern European countries, especially Russia.

USA have the world's most advanced technology and look at it now, it not only break up USSR without fighting major wars, it continues to be the world's one and only superpower. Of course you'll prefer turkey because those eastern european countries and russian hates muslim.

And Orhan Pamuk, a Muslim, won a nobel prize in 2006. Seriously, hop off your high horse.

In literature, hardly a technological advance. :rofl:

The writing system for numerals, smartass. But if you really want to go into it, you might be surprised that the Latin writing system that English uses descends from the Greek, which in turn descends from the Phoenician, which is the father of virtually every alphabet in existence sans Korean Hangul. And the Phoenicians were a middle-eastern people.

Phoenicians were NOT Muslims.

 

[Ba'al Shem Tov]

And Orhan Pamuk, a Muslim, won a nobel prize in 2006. Seriously, hop off your high horse.

This year Islam and Judaism's holiest holidays overlapped for 10 days.
Muslims racked up 397 dead bodies in 94 terror attacks across 10 countries during this time... while Jews worked on their 159th Nobel Prize.

 

[S1M0]

If by Arabic you mean Greek, Latin and French then there is no reason to get into the amount of loanwords that have been derived for English. But to say Arabic is the foundation of many English words is funny.

In common with other European languages, many English words are derived from Arabic, often through other European languages, especially Spanish and Italian

.

 

[ari89]

Originally Posted by Wikipedia
In common with other European languages, many English words are derived from Arabic, often through other European languages, especially Spanish and Italian

But some of these loanwords from Arabic (a Semitic language) are not of Arabic origin: they are loanwords in Arabic itself. Arabic acquired words from Latin, Greek, Persian, or from fellow members of the Afroasiatic language family. Within the Afro-Asiatic language family, Arabic borrowed words from the Semitic languages Hebrew, Aramaic, and Akkadian and the non-Semitic language Coptic (Ancient Egyptian).

A computerised survey of about 80,000 words in the old Shorter Oxford Dictionary (3rd ed.) was published in Ordered Profusion by Thomas Finkenstaedt and Dieter Wolff (1973)[34] that estimated the origin of English words as follows:

• Langue d'oïl, including French and Old Norman: 28.3%
• Latin, including modern scientific and technical Latin: 28.24%
• Other Germanic languages (including words directly inherited from Old English): 25%
• Greek: 5.32%
• No etymology given: 4.03%
• Derived from proper names: 3.28%
• All other languages contributed less than 1% (e.g. Arabic-English loanwords)

bad research S1M0

 

[wrxsti]

The Apocalypse is upon us.......................
People are relying on wikipedia for information..

 

[Gosford]

This year Islam and Judaism's holiest holidays overlapped for 10 days.
Muslims racked up 397 dead bodies in 94 terror attacks across 10 countries during this time... while Jews worked on their 159th Nobel Prize.

lol, wat bout israel's killings
oh no wait
they r perfect arent they?

 

[Ademir]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arabic_loanwords_in_English

It doesn't matter if the Arabs got them somewhere else. The fact stands, you would not be saying it today if it wasn't for the Arabs (except by some coincidence).

I never said the Phoenicians were Muslim. I don't why anyone would imply I did. The views that the Phoenicians were of European origin are a minority view, usually proposed by Eurocentric scholars. The Phoenicians spoke a Semitic language (and this has been attested) which is the language family in which Arabic, Aramaic, Hebrew etc. belong to, unlike Greek which is Indo-European. Furthermore, if they were in fact Greek, why would the Phoenician alphabet contain no symbols for vowels? The whole reason the Greeks added vowels into the alphabet is because the Greek language could not be written without separate symbols for vowels, while the Phoenician could. Arabic is related to Phoenician, and Arabic too doesn't use symbols for vowels. Thus neither the language nor the culture of Phoenicia was Greek.

In any case, the Minoans were not Greeks. They lived on an island which the Greeks later took and incorporated into their lands, and which has since belonged to Greece. That doesn't make them Greek culturally or linguistically.

And nope, I've got nothing against Eastern Europe. I'm from there. I just recognise it's a shit hole, and I'd rather live in Turkey than in Russia, because it's a better standard of life imo.

And I agree the Ottomans were behind the West technologically. But everyone was behind the West, including Russia, who got demolished by Germany due to its technological inferiority in WW1. It's a geographic issue, not a religious one. You might as well blame the Orthodox Church for Russia's backwardness, if you're going to blame Islam for the Ottoman's. The smarter connection to make would be the fact that both the Ottoman's and Russians had failed to industrialise as early as the West had.

 

[Ba'al Shem Tov]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arabic_loanwords_in_English

It doesn't matter if the Arabs got them somewhere else. The fact stands, you would not be saying it today if it wasn't for the Arabs (except by some coincidence).

Put it into perspective:

Less than one percent of English words are made up of every single language except for Greek, French, German and Latin. And of that less than one percent which includes all but 4 languages (past and present) only some of them are Arabic. And of those words that are Arabic, most of them are actually loan-words from Latin, Greek etc.

So only a miniscule amount of words (a tiny fraction of a percent) are partly from Arabic.

I never said the Phoenicians were Muslim. I don't why anyone would imply I did.

The thread was never about the Middle East but Muslims. That is the obvious reason why everyone would imply you did especially as you were replying in the topic of Islam.

The views that the Phoenicians were of European origin are a minority view, usually proposed by Eurocentric scholars.

Actually, no it isn't the minority view.

The Phoenicians spoke a Semitic language (and this has been attested) which is the language family in which Arabic, Aramaic, Hebrew etc. belong to, unlike Greek which is Indo-European.

Yes, great summary of wikipedia

Furthermore, if they were in fact Greek, why would the Phoenician alphabet contain no symbols for vowels? The whole reason the Greeks added vowels into the alphabet is because the Greek language could not be written without separate symbols for vowels, while the Phoenician could.

The written languages started and developed differently as they had seperated between the stage of the change from Mycenean Greek and Proteo-Greek. So what you said just made no sense, on face value or logically. You also fail to understand the origins of people and that independance from geopgraphy. I'm sorry to tell you but Wikipedia does not have all the answers for you. Please use other sources such as actual history books, or jorunals on the development of lexicons etc.

Arabic is related to Phoenician, and Arabic too doesn't use symbols for vowels. Thus neither the language nor the culture of Phoenicia was Greek.

How did you come to this conclusion? There is no logical argument put forward and no causal link. You cannot draw together a language by the fact that it uses vowels. Especially as Arabic was conceived 1500 years after the Phoeneician alphabet had died out. Sorry to disappoint.

In any case, the Minoans were not Greeks. They lived on an island which the Greeks later took and incorporated into their lands, and which has since belonged to Greece. That doesn't make them Greek culturally or linguistically.

You demonstrate such a lack of knowledge that Wikipedia will not fill. I suggest you read 'A History of Greece: to the death of Alexander the great' by JB Bury and Russel Meiggs. It is a long book and quite old now but I'm sure it will give you some sort of idea about what you are saying.

Also

The Origins of Writing and Administration on Crete
Schoep, Ilse
Oxford Journal of Archaeology, 1999, 18, 3, Aug, 265-276

A Text Linguistic Approach to the Syntax and Style of the Phoenician Inscription of Azatiwada
Schade, Aaron
Journal of Semitic Studies, 2005, 50, 1, spring, 35-58

The Structure of the Minoan Language
Owens, Gareth
The Journal of Indo-European Studies, 1999, 27, 1-2, spring-summer, 15-55

Minoan = Proto-Greek. Reflections on the Divine Epithets and the Ideograms of the Phaistos Disk
Neuss, Ottomar

 

[wrxsti]

Funny how your saying "wikipedia doesnt fill the holes" in Ademirs informtation

Yet your simulatensouly using wikipedia for your information?

typical, lol

 

[Ba'al Shem Tov]

Funny how your saying "wikipedia doesnt fill the holes" in Ademirs informtation

Yet your simulatensouly using wikipedia for your information?

typical, lol

I know you are not blind so I must assume you are just stupid:

I suggest you read 'A History of Greece: to the death of Alexander the great' by JB Bury and Russel Meiggs. It is a long book and quite old now but I'm sure it will give you some sort of idea about what you are saying.

Also

The Origins of Writing and Administration on Crete
Schoep, Ilse
Oxford Journal of Archaeology, 1999, 18, 3, Aug, 265-276

A Text Linguistic Approach to the Syntax and Style of the Phoenician Inscription of Azatiwada
Schade, Aaron
Journal of Semitic Studies, 2005, 50, 1, spring, 35-58

The Structure of the Minoan Language
Owens, Gareth
The Journal of Indo-European Studies, 1999, 27, 1-2, spring-summer, 15-55

Minoan = Proto-Greek. Reflections on the Divine Epithets and the Ideograms of the Phaistos Disk
Neuss, Ottomar

^ Doesn't look much like Wikipedia to me.

LOL

 

[PrinceHarry]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arabic_loanwords_in_English

It doesn't matter if the Arabs got them somewhere else. The fact stands, you would not be saying it today if it wasn't for the Arabs (except by some coincidence).

what is your point? thousands of english words are also borrowed by arabs simply because they are too backward and do not have words in arabic to call it. What do you call internet in arabic? didnt you use english word internet? what do you call computer in arabic? don't you use english as well?

I never said the Phoenicians were Muslim. I don't why anyone would imply I did. The views that the Phoenicians were of European origin are a minority view, usually proposed by Eurocentric scholars. The Phoenicians spoke a Semitic language (and this has been attested) which is the language family in which Arabic, Aramaic, Hebrew etc. belong to, unlike Greek which is Indo-European. Furthermore, if they were in fact Greek, why would the Phoenician alphabet contain no symbols for vowels? The whole reason the Greeks added vowels into the alphabet is because the Greek language could not be written without separate symbols for vowels, while the Phoenician could. Arabic is related to Phoenician, and Arabic too doesn't use symbols for vowels. Thus neither the language nor the culture of Phoenicia was Greek.

By all means Phoenicians were closer to greek than Arabs, before there was arabs or muslims, greeks lived with phoenicians allover the mediterranean coasts. And Again, they were NOT muslims and muslims cannot take credit for that!

And nope, I've got nothing against Eastern Europe. I'm from there. I just recognise it's a shit hole, and I'd rather live in Turkey than in Russia, because it's a better standard of life imo.

probably still better than most islamic countries.

And I agree the Ottomans were behind the West technologically. But everyone was behind the West, including Russia, who got demolished by Germany due to its technological inferiority in WW1. It's a geographic issue, not a religious one. You might as well blame the Orthodox Church for Russia's backwardness, if you're going to blame Islam for the Ottoman's. The smarter connection to make would be the fact that both the Ottoman's and Russians had failed to industrialise as early as the West had.

Some history lesson for you

Ottoman military reform efforts begin with Selim III (1789-1807) who made the first major attempts to modernize the army along European lines. These efforts, however, were hampered by reactionist movements, partly from the religious leadership, but primarily from the Janissary corps, who had become anarchic and ineffectual. Jealous of their privileges and firmly opposed to change created a Janissary revolt. Selim's efforts cost him his throne and his life, but were resolved in spectacular and bloody fashion by his successor, the dynamic Mahmud II, who massacred the Janissary corps in 1826. Later on in Ottoman history there were educational and technological reforms, including the establishment of higher education institutions such as Istanbul Technical University; but decline continued despite these measures.

Source
Thanks to religious opposition, ottoman failed to modernise their military, lose battles and fell .. Simple as that.
Feel free to give us how orthodox church oppose russian military modernisation

 

[jaymz699]

PrinceHarry.

You are the kind of person who creates segregation in this world, one which this world could do without. Please return to the underside of that rock from where you came, my little sister has more organised logic than you and she is 9.

You are a moron for trying to prove any culture is backwards based upon it's language. Where did English come from? French? They are called romantic and germanic languages for a reason.

Secondly to murder and to rape are verbs and muslim is a noun... so how are the synonomous? You can't even be consoled by your grammatical understanding. Which reinforces how ironic it is that you would critiscise any culture on the basis of their language taking words from another.

You are using the actions of an extreme minority in order to determine the nature of 'the rest'. It is purely a case of your non sequitur logic.

I think that everyone (excluding harry) will agree with me when I say... There is no use in argueing with fools, but I was bored so I had to give it a shot .

wrxti dont worry about him. He's obviously got issues.

 

[Ademir]

The Orthodox Church was closely linked to the Tsar, who wasn't big on industrialisation because his power lay with the landed aristocracy, who were also closely linked with the Church. That is why Russia did not become formidable militarily until WW2, after Stalin's rapid industrialisation.

Ba'al, please do some study on linguistics before you come here claiming I got information from Wikipedia. What I said was correct. Phoenician has been proved to be a Semitic language through comparative reconstruction, related to Arabic, Herbrew, Aramaic, and others. Greek is not in this category.

One of the biggest features of Semitic languages is that they can be written without vowels - because it's possible to discern from the context of the word what it's meant to mean. Alphabets of this nature are called abjads. Arabic and Hebrew today are written in this manner, although Hebrew has some sort of system for representing vowels in modern times. Thus, when the Phoenicians developed the alphabet, they did not have symbols for vowels.

When the Greeks adapted the Phoenician alphabet, they created vowel symbols because Greek NEEDS vowels to be written in order to be understood. If you knew even the basic history of the alphabet you would understand this. Greek as a language is more closely related to Punjabi or Hindi than it is to Phoenician.

Therefore, if the Phoenicians were neither culturally nor linguistically Greek, how are they Greek? If you're suggesting that their genetic origins lie in Greece, then I don't know, you may be right. But I don't care about that. If you want to argue genetics can account for differences in civilisation and progress, then well, frankly, I don't want to have this discussion.

What use is it trying to tell me that English words are being taken into other languages, Princeharry? I know that. Every major language borrows from others. I'm merely stating with all my posts that Western civilisation owes much to the East. I love how the whole al-Khwarizmi issue was ignored by the anti-Islamists in this thread. I guess the decimal number system and algebra are not important to the Western world, among other things :S

 

[trace7988]

Posts like these frustrate me.

What exactly does information like this solve or achieve? Nothing!
We all live on this earth thats all we need to know and care about - so go on with your lives and get over it.

 

[bambaffled]

Muslims are pretty cool but.

your right!!.. I'm Muslim, and I'm cool.. damn, saying that makes me uncool.. right..

anywho0o.. cheerio!

 

[Ba'al Shem Tov]

Ba'al, please do some study on linguistics before you come here claiming I got information from Wikipedia. What I said was correct. Phoenician has been proved to be a Semitic language through comparative reconstruction, related to Arabic, Herbrew, Aramaic, and others. Greek is not in this category.

You really have a nack for missing the entire point of everything said. You do not understand that if the Phoenecians were a 'Greek people', whether or not they spoke the Greek language is irrelevant when saying that they were a Greek people who invented the Phoenecian alphabet. Do you not get the simple point. If a Greek was to go over to Antarctica and create a new written English there he would still be a Greek. Even if he wasn't to speak Greek he was still a Greek person. Get it?
You and your horribly understood tangents.

One of the biggest features of Semitic languages is that they can be written without vowels - because it's possible to discern from the context of the word what it's meant to mean. Alphabets of this nature are called abjads. Arabic and Hebrew today are written in this manner, although Hebrew has some sort of system for representing vowels in modern times. Thus, when the Phoenicians developed the alphabet, they did not have symbols for vowels.

When the Greeks adapted the Phoenician alphabet, they created vowel symbols because Greek NEEDS vowels to be written in order to be understood. If you knew even the basic history of the alphabet you would understand this. Greek as a language is more closely related to Punjabi or Hindi than it is to Phoenician.

I sent kudos on the Wikipedia research before. You are still brining up pointless logic, in the loosest and most fallacious meaning of the word, that is irrelevant and proves nothing about the origin of a people.

Therefore, if the Phoenicians were neither culturally nor linguistically Greek, how are they Greek? If you're suggesting that their genetic origins lie in Greece, then I don't know, you may be right. But I don't care about that. If you want to argue genetics can account for differences in civilisation and progress, then well, frankly, I don't want to have this discussion.

The word "therefore" suggests you reached a logical conclusion based on some sort of correct premises. Please show me these?
The point was always the origin of hte people being Greek not middle eastern. You claim to not care about it yet you spent a whole rant talking about it. There would be no argument. You brought up the entire issue of the history of language to prove nothing, as you have repeatedly done. It never had any relevance and shows your inability to interpret basic arguments.

What use is it trying to tell me that English words are being taken into other languages, Princeharry? I know that. Every major language borrows from others. I'm merely stating with all my posts that Western civilisation owes much to the East. I love how the whole al-Khwarizmi issue was ignored by the anti-Islamists in this thread. I guess the decimal number system and algebra are not important to the Western world, among other things :S

No one claimed that algebra and the decimal system were not important in the Western world. You detracted from the argument at hand on some pointless wiki fueled rant about Phoenecia and claimed, wrongfully so, that the English language owes so much of itself to the Arabic language. This was already proven wrong showing that only a faction of a % of the English language has its roots in Arabic.

So yes, stop with the stupid tangent as it is getting you no where.

Especially when I use real sources and you rely on wikipedia (and attack me for pointing out your limited knowledge). And yes, the references I used pluse some extras that you might find useful were attached to the end of the article in the case that you would like to learn more about the issues - specifically the origin of the Phoenecian people and the development of the written language.

 

[wrxsti]

I know you are not blind so I must assume you are just stupid:



^ Doesn't look much like Wikipedia to me.

LOL

god, you realy are a dickhead. what about your other 99% quotes which you bring from wikipedia? congrats 1% of your sources are correct

P.S. (like the english language derivation one, also you still have failed to menion your sodomisation quote.... which you still ignored... mmhm)

 

[jb_nc]

bal shem tov you have made me lol