N.A vs F.A big debate (2 Viewers)

[who_loves_maths]

*slaps head*. I should have realised that considering all the work I do with binary in SDD.

lol, yeah well everyone makes mistakes Slide, even those of your calibre ^^, it's nothing to worry about.

btw, what is SDD???

 

[HayleeKate]

Software design and development
even I, computer iliterate little girl knew that!

 

[who_loves_maths]

lol, guess i'm acronymilliterate then
(hehe... and no, there's no such word... i think... ^^)

 

[Templar]

it seems to me that this is pretty well completely random!

That's the whole point of chaotic systems and pseudorandom number generators such as the rand key on your calculator or the function Random in Mathematica (which if you look up the help file, says it gives a uniformly distributed pseudorandom real number).

 

[justchillin]

in ex 2, in answering the original question, there is certainly benefit in fa for questions 1-7; but q8, especially the end part, requires na...

 

[HayleeKate]

I tend to believe NA is a crucial factor of the Ext 2 mathematician. Obviously you've got to do some work, but just trying hard wont beat someone who has a real affinity for mathematics.
From personal experience in my class:
Theres 2 particularly dedicated students who have tutors, bust guts to study heaps. Theyre the bottom 2 students.
Theres myself who does absolutely no maths outside of class and misses a fair few classes.
I've topped every assessment.
Theres my teachers son, who is naturally a mathematician, but doing everything in his power to rebel against his dickhead father, so does no maths, no homework, comes to class late, just to piss off his dad.
He's coming second.

I would however, recommend everyone does lots of homework and studies really hard. It wont hurt you a bit.

 

[KFunk]

It's a crucial factor but experience will make all the difference. Imagine a situation where you get to Q8 but it's really familiar because you've done a hard question like that before. Your life suddenly becomes a whole lot easier. Here, a lot of it comes down to luck but your chances are improved if you've put in the hard yards and done a lot of test papers.

 

[HayleeKate]

I'm revising my stance a little.
I think people with natural affinity for mathematics take less hardwork to recieve the benefits of hardwork. If that makes sense.
I'm trying to say.. female X [N.A] does 6 practice questions before an exam.
Male Y [no NA tries hard] does 24 practice questions, but because he hasnt got the connection with the subject and ideas, it takes him the whole 24 questions before he's fully jiggy with it. Female X however, despite only doing 6 questions, picks up the concept sweet because she's natural awesome. They recieve the same exam mark. Female X shits on Male Y, because she's taken half the time comprehending this concept and has more time to funnel into other worthwhile activities. Of course, if you're Male Y, you dont work, your parents make you breakfast in bed every morning, you have no friends nor social life, and all you do is study [specific reference to such a male at my school], then 24 questions is fine.

 

[FinalFantasy]

i reckon if u work really hard and know how to work properly (e.g use time well and know how to CHANGE very often)... u will eventually gain that "natural ability"... some ppl just work very hard and dey keep working and working and dey still get no where cuz dey dunno how to work properly..

 

[who_loves_maths]

Originally Posted by HayleeKate

Obviously you've got to do some work...

explain why that is obvious... from your decription of your personal experience, it seems incredulous to me that a person who spends as much time doing work as she does giving reservation to her ego would find something so fundamental like that obvious. 'defying-the-obvious' is probably more of a natural disposition (or as you proudly consider, natural ability) for you than spotting it.
so plz stop brushing off so casually concepts you do not understand or intend to employ... hard work being one of them.


P.S. by 'do not understand' i, in all seriousness, mean that thing which you have not experienced personally. if you don't know what hard work feels like or means, then don't call it 'obvious' because it's clearly not in your arsenal of personal experience. and until you have experienced it, you don't have the right to publicly dismiss classmates of yours who actively exert hard work, but just unfruitfully.

truth is, they probably deserve this "natural ability" of yours more than you do.

and plz don't take personal offense in what i've said. it is in no way an attack on you, it's merely my opinion and reaction to some of the words i see in front of me, i would say the same thing to any other ppl who would write as you have.

 

[HayleeKate]

Please dont assume my blase approach to ext 2 maths carries into all subjects... I do understand the concept of hardwork, in all subjects other than this course. So please, dont judge me by your reading of my one post concerning one unit of my HSC.


You're perfectly correct, it is NOT obvious you have to do some work... you do not in fact, need to do work.. unless of course you have any aims or goals of achievement in that particular subject. Honestly, I feel your statement was ridiculous.. There's simply no need to attack someone for saying "Obviously you need to do some work [to do well in the HSC]"

And as for that not being attack on me? By telling me I dont deserve my genetic predisposition for mathematics.. I work my guts out for Ext 1 maths and have for 2 unit. I take great pride in my achievements in Ext 2, despite not studying a real lot, but I do attend DOUBLE the required class time for a one unit subject, which makes up for some of that I feel. I tutor younger students at maths, and hence, am using my 'natural ability' for a good purpose.. helping others. DO NOT TELL ME I DO NOT DESERVE THIS. I'm not a particularly naturally strong english student, but put in substantial effort to ensure I do well at this subject, and feel this makes me worth of doing ok in Maths without the same heartrenching effort.
Whilst doing my HSC, I've worked 3 part time jobs, plus tutoring other students, been parent to my parents, moved house every 2 weeks, been on every sporting team in my school and the SRC and come dux of my school for year 11. I think I'm qualified to know a little about hardwork, but maybe thats just my ego talking again?

*If you seriously meant the last lines of your post: If you feel that is not an offensive thing to say to someone, you must be a real f**kwit of a person. I would hate to see you deliberately try and insult someone.

 

[3.1415926535897]

i have problems with both of you

who loves maths.......

you have no right in deciding who deserves talents ... this is God'd choice.... so please do not talk about the supposed right to being talented


Haylee.... thanks for all that detail about how good you are..... i can see some reasons as to why this dude attacked you... your ego is very LOUD ... and in our faces

so tone it down a bit and i would agree with your POV...

 

[HayleeKate]

Thankyou #pi man.. I was a little concerned that perhaps my post would be misconstrewn as ego, but, honestly, all i did was state the fact of my results.. there would have been little point to my entire example if I hadnt said that I do well. Thankyou for the decence of constructive criticism. Taken on board.

 

[FinalFantasy]

i really sense no attack in 'who loves maths's post there, if he said it to me i wouldn't mind at all, and i think he is quite right too when he said dat haylee tried to "publicly dismiss classmates of yours who actively exert hard work, but just unfruitfully."
and also before 'who loves maths' said "do not understand".. Haylee did not indicate dat she has done any hardwork since she "does absolutely no maths outside of class and misses a fair few classes.
I've topped every assessment."

although 'who loves maths's post is unnecessary

and also the writing is so much to read!

 

[lfc_reds2003]

ummm FF mate... chime? stop sitting on the fence already

who_loves_maths: mate i think u r just hiding ur insecurities behind a veil of vocab so those who cant decipher it will just agree with u... ppl r allowed to be naturally talented u know i mean everyone has their weaknesses too... think about it... all NAs cant be amazing at everything can they

and saying somebody doesnt know the meaning of hard work... come on.. that could be classed as arrogance - making u sound so much better for having "worked" to get where you are... (wherever that is - maybe here??!!)

AURAL out

 

[HayleeKate]

i really sense no attack in 'who loves maths's post there, if he said it to me i wouldn't mind at all, and i think he is quite right too when he said dat haylee tried to "publicly dismiss classmates of yours who actively exert hard work, but just unfruitfully."
and also before 'who loves maths' said "do not understand".. Haylee did not indicate dat she has done any hardwork since she "does absolutely no maths outside of class and misses a fair few classes.
I've topped every assessment."

although 'who loves maths's post is unnecessary

and also the writing is so much to read!

Its a big jump to go from me 'not indicating that i have done any work' in one subject, to telling me I have no understanding of real work.
If I told you, that you do not deserve the heart you were genetically benefited with, because other people try to be nicer people... would you indeed believe this is not insulting? In that case, for yourself and who loves maths: see above.

 

[KFunk]

i have problems with both of you

who loves maths.......

you have no right in deciding who deserves talents ... this is God'd choice.... so please do not talk about the supposed right to being talented

I really don't think that was their point. It seemed to me that 'who_loves_maths' was insinuating that hayleekate doesn't put in any effort and hence that she doesn't understand the concept of hard work. From her reply it would appear that this is not the case. 'who_loves_maths' did say that others may be more deserving of her talent (which is different to possessing the right) and I geuss that depends on whether or not she takes it for granted.

As has been said before, lets try our best not to reduce this debate to personal attacks.

 

[FinalFantasy]

hey... personally I wouldn't feel insulted if u told me all those things lol
dats me!
anyway, i reckon there shouldn't be an argument for something small like dat..

how about 'Who Loves Math' and haylee, and any others involved... PeAcE!

 

[who_loves_maths]

Originally Posted by HayleeKate
Please dont assume my blase approach to ext 2 maths carries into all subjects... I do understand the concept of hardwork, in all subjects other than this course. So please, dont judge me by your reading of my one post concerning one unit of my HSC.

firstly, it's my fault for not making myself clear in my last post, but i did not assume your approach carries into all other subjects. simply because i did not explicitly say "maths ext 2 only" does not mean YOU have to ASSUME that i generalise your slack approach to maths ext2 into all other areas of your study.

secondly, i judge you AS MUCH AS you judge your fellow classmates, who put in the hard yards only not to reap the fruits of their efforts. you publicly vilify those who study hard for their lack of result and label them without reason or base based on YOUR judgement and opinions of them:

Of course, if you're Male Y, you dont work, your parents make you breakfast in bed every morning, you have no friends nor social life, and all you do is study [specific reference to such a male at my school]

surely you do not stalk them 24/7 to be able to know these details of their everyday life??? in other words, this is only your opinion of who you THINK they are and what lives they lead.
you judge others without expecting others to judge you? aren't you being a bit hypocritical?

Originally Posted by HayleeKate
Honestly, I feel your statement was ridiculous.. There's simply no need to attack someone for saying "Obviously you need to do some work [to do well in the HSC]...

firstly, my purpose was NOT to attack YOU, it's to attack what you said. and i was not even attacking that simple sentence alone, it was only an example. it's the combination of your 'as-a-matter-of-fact' attitude with your rhetoric that is the problem, and that was what i was addressing.

secondly, this feeling between what you felt about my statement and what i feel about your latest post is mutual.

Originally Posted by HayleeKate
And as for that not being attack on me? By telling me I dont deserve my genetic predisposition for mathematics..
DO NOT TELL ME I DO NOT DESERVE THIS...

don't put words into other ppl's mouth... as a public speaker i though you'd have been familiar with that. for your information, if you re-read my previous post, you'll realise that i did not say "you do not deserve your natural mathematical ability"... what i said was:

truth is, they probably deserve this "natural ability" of yours more than you do.

meaning that YES, you deserve your natural ability. BUT, the ones who work their asses off probably deserve it MORE.
and i'm not ever going to retract that, because i KNOW that is a fair statement to make.

Originally Posted by HayleeKate
If you seriously meant the last lines of your post: If you feel that is not an offensive thing to say to someone, you must be a real f**kwit of a person...

taking offense is a conscious choice of yours. whether or not you think i was purposefully attacking and trying to offend you or not, despite my assurance that i was not, is totally up to you.
just don't use it as an excuse to feel sorry for yourself. there are plenty more ppl in worse situations than you have experienced while as the same time not as 'endowed' as you are, and there will be more in the future.


and once again i offer my assurance that i harbour no malice or contempt against you as a person... only against the things you say, and the attitude with which you say it. whether you believe me or not is, once again, entirely up to you.

 

[FinalFantasy]

wow, u ppl type huge responses each time, i don't even bother to read it all LoL!