North Korea presses on nuclear test (1 Viewer)

[360flip]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/10/04/nkorea.nuclear.unresponse/index.html

Normally I don't care about certain politics but this one catches my eye maybe because I'm korean aswell but whatever! I reckon this crap is bullshit the US probably has a right to speak against nuclear weapons and I'm fond of being against nuclear weapons but think of it this way [North Korea "can have a future or it can have these weapons. It cannot have both," Hill said.] how fucking ironic the United States has at least 28000 motherfucking a-bombs and they tell other countries they can't make or use them? I applaud North Korea for continuing to defie US demands as they can't be the world's police! Surely Kim Jong Il may look like a bastard in the eyes of the west but surely he ain't suicidal and knows that if he ever launched a a-bomb on another country it would be the dead of North Korea as well as the world! What ya think? I wrote this cos i just have too much time in my hands and should be studying now lol!

 

[dieburndie]

Re: North Korea presses on nuclear test and all that shit!

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/10/04/nkorea.nuclear.unresponse/index.html

Normally I don't care about certain politics but this one catches my eye maybe because I'm korean aswell but whatever! I reckon this crap is bullshit the US probably has a right to speak against nuclear weapons and I'm fond of being against nuclear weapons but think of it this way [North Korea "can have a future or it can have these weapons. It cannot have both," Hill said.] how fucking ironic the United States has at least 28000 motherfucking a-bombs and they tell other countries they can't make or use them? I applaud North Korea for continuing to defie US demands as they can't be the world's police! Surely Kim Jong Il may look like a bastard in the eyes of the west but surely he ain't suicidal and knows that if he ever launched a a-bomb on another country it would be the dead of North Korea as well as the world! What ya think? I wrote this cos i just have too much time in my hands and should be studying now lol!

Next time choose the study option.

 

[Raginsheep]

Re: North Korea presses on nuclear test and all that shit!

As much as it might amuse me ( and some others ) to say it , I'd rather have nukes in the control of sane individuals rather than lunatics.

Seriously though, anyone who thinks that its good idea to have nukes in the hands of a country which has a permanent schizophrenic like paranoia is an idiot.

 

[_dhj_]

Re: North Korea presses on nuclear test and all that shit!

As much as it might amuse me ( and some others ) to say it , I'd rather have nukes in the control of sane individuals rather than lunatics.

Seriously though, anyone who thinks that its good idea to have nukes in the hands of a country which has a permanent schizophrenic like paranoia is an idiot.

History tells us that the U.S. is infinite times more likely to drop the A-Bomb on a country. Your opinion might've been of more value had it not been based on Team America.

 

[Raginsheep]

Re: North Korea presses on nuclear test and all that shit!

History tells us that the U.S. is infinite times more likely to drop the A-Bomb on a country. Your opinion might've been of more value had it not been based on Team America.

I haven't seen Team America and even if I did, I think I would have the mental capacity to differentiate between a satirical film and real life. Simply having an "America sucks" attitude and automatically adopting any position as long as its anti-american places doubts on the value of your opinion.

 

[_dhj_]

Re: North Korea presses on nuclear test and all that shit!

I haven't seen Team America and even if I did, I think I would have the mental capacity to differentiate between a satirical film and real life. Simply having an "America sucks" attitude and automatically adopting any position as long as its anti-american places doubts on the value of your opinion.

The only problem is that I didn't state an "opinion" regarding the topic of the thread. I merely stated a fact.

 

[Raginsheep]

Re: North Korea presses on nuclear test and all that shit!

The only problem is that I didn't state an "opinion" in this thread. I merely stated a fact.

You stated an opinion trying to disguise it as a "fact". Don't make me get out my yr12 english skills but tone conveys meaning as well.

Nevertheless, you said that:

History tells us that the U.S. is infinite times more likely to drop the A-Bomb on a country.

If one wants to be technical, the only fact is that history only tells us that the US has droped two nuclear bombs in anger. History makes no noise on the likehood of the US or N.Korea dropping one in the future. Therefore, we must all draw conclusions. Mine is that given a country like N.Korea, the chance that it would use such weapons or threaten to use them would be greater compared with a country like the US. Furthermore, the US has changed alot over the last 50yrs and you can take the WW2 mentality of the Truman adminstration and place it into today's context.

 

[what971]

Re: North Korea presses on nuclear test and all that shit!

Truman was a great President.

David McCullough for the win.

 

[_dhj_]

Re: North Korea presses on nuclear test and all that shit!

Yeah sure you can't apply it to today's US administration I mean just look at how peaceful it has been over the past decade compared to evil countries like North Korea. Even in conventional warfare the US is the most dangerous. I mean seriously how much Bush administration propaganda have you taken in to actually believe that North Korea is more of a threat. Just look at the countries that hate NK - America, and Japs - both of which have administrations with imperialist ambitions (unlike the socialism in one country aspirations of a Stalinist style leader like Kim). No wonder they need to look at ways of defending themselves.

 

[ElendilPeredhil]

Re: North Korea presses on nuclear test and all that shit!

You stated an opinion trying to disguise it as a "fact". Don't make me get out my yr12 english skills but tone conveys meaning as well.

Nevertheless, you said that:

If one wants to be technical, the only fact is that history only tells us that the US has droped two nuclear bombs in anger. History makes no noise on the likehood of the US or N.Korea dropping one in the future. Therefore, we must all draw conclusions. Mine is that given a country like N.Korea, the chance that it would use such weapons or threaten to use them would be greater compared with a country like the US. Furthermore, the US has changed alot over the last 50yrs and you can take the WW2 mentality of the Truman adminstration and place it into today's context.

The US is unlikely to drop a nuclear bomb on another country, even with an idiot like Bush holding the reins. Korea, is equally unlikely to do it and for the same reasons. It would be suicide. They could get off a bomb, hit a major US city and then they would discover themselves buried under the US nuclear weapons, or under missiles, as well as beig attacked by countries like Japan. The US hits Korea..well actually that's a more complicated issue. The Australian government would probably do nothing beyond a few weak statements "we don' have all the facts" "of course, war is not a happy path for us to take"
and follow along anyway, same with Britian, and the UN would probably condemn America which would have absolutely no effect...basically, the US has no downside to bombing Korea, as far as I see.

However...the hypocrisy of America in demanding that other countries shut down nuclear programs whilst maintaining its own could be one reason for the fact that we still have nuclear weapons in the world! It's not like America needs them, they are powerful enough with other weapons, and the only thing they accomplish by keeping them is angering other countries whom they ask to disarm.

 

[bshoc]

Re: North Korea presses on nuclear test and all that shit!

Yeah sure you can't apply it to today's US administration I mean just look at how peaceful it has been over the past decade compared to evil countries like North Korea. Even in conventional warfare the US is the most dangerous. I mean seriously how much Bush administration propaganda have you taken in to actually believe that North Korea is more of a threat. Just look at the countries that hate NK - America, and Japs - both of which have administrations with imperialist ambitions (unlike the socialism in one country aspirations of a Stalinist style leader like Kim). No wonder they need to look at ways of defending themselves.

Imperialistic? Neoconservatism is a Kantian principle.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

Re: North Korea presses on nuclear test and all that shit!

Yeah sure you can't apply it to today's US administration I mean just look at how peaceful it has been over the past decade compared to evil countries like North Korea. Even in conventional warfare the US is the most dangerous. I mean seriously how much Bush administration propaganda have you taken in to actually believe that North Korea is more of a threat.

A threat to who?

America = Our Allies

North Korea = Not our Allies, and geographically we're within the supposed range of their supposed nukes.

Thus, North Korea are infinitely more of a threat to us than the Americans. Because, really, the Mongolians and the Kazakhstanis and even the Icelanders and Lesothoans are all more of a threat to us than the Americans. And I like it that way.

 

[melb22]

Re: North Korea presses on nuclear test and all that shit!

It would be better if nth Korea doesn’t test them because it is always better if fewer countries have them and yes I know that is hypocritical. Having said that imo the two most likely scenarios of nuclear attacks would be - no. 2- a terrorist org. getting their hands on weapons from either Russia/Pakistan and using it, no.1 - USA using it on a country as a preemptive strike coz they think the other country might attack them or might have nuclear weapons. I don’t see countries like Iran or nth Korea when they have nuclear weapons using them, coz they aint stupid because if they do they know they would be history. These 2 want nuclear weapons so they can use it as a deterrent against a western power so they dont attack them and to stop the western countries from bullying them like they do right now. That is one of the main reason western countries don’t want these countries to have weapons. Eventually more and more countries will have nuclear weapons whether USA[FONT=&quot] likes it or not.

It started with 1. Now there are 7 official and israel most likely has it though they havent tested which makes it 8. This list will be longer in the years to come. imo japan which is capable of producing weapons even now if they want to, would have it in the near future coz of nth korea.
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[P_Dilemma]

Re: North Korea presses on nuclear test and all that shit!

If he's never going to launch them, then what does he need them for?

No body should have nuclear weapons, but a nuclear weapons in the hands of a democratic government, which is accountable, is safer than a nuclear weapon in the hands of a dictator who is accountable to no one. There is only one good thing, and that's that he isn't islamic so he's not likely to hear voices from Allah directing him to fire it at those bastard infidels in japan or something.

Why does he need nuclear weapons? It can be explained by an interesting game called Prisoner's Dilemma (upon which i based my username)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma

The mentality is pretty much like this: "If you're gonna have huge bombs, then so will I". Childish, but that's the world for you.

I don't believe it makes much of a dent whether or not the country launching bombs can be held accountable or not. The damage will be done, and all there'll be is a trial (not very likely anyway). Democracy has little to do with nuclear weapons; it's not like the government is gonna call a ballot 1 hour prior to launch...

-P_D

 

[Kmahal1990]

The difference is, that America has something to lose, and the North Korean president doesn't. The American President (in general) is motivated by rational, humane factors of being re-elected, being loved by his fellow Americans and bringing security to America. In the same way, he is inclined not to use his nuclear weapons, because he doesn't want retaliation strikes, or a world nuclear war triggering. However, the North Korean president doesn't care about these factors. it is not that he is insane, but simply the environment that he was raised in, and the resultant mentality. For example, the Japanese in World War II. They are not bound by the human motivation of survival. Their sole purpose was to kill you by any means necessary. Another example, the suicidal bombers. Remember the movie line: ' YOu better be afraid. I am a man with nothing to loose'. I would prefer America with a 5000 nukes, than NK with a grenade.

 

[Aryanbeauty]

Re: North Korea presses on nuclear test and all that shit!

However...the hypocrisy of America in demanding that other countries shut down nuclear programs whilst maintaining its own could be one reason for the fact that we still have nuclear weapons in the world! It's not like America needs them, they are powerful enough with other weapons, and the only thing they accomplish by keeping them is angering other countries whom they ask to disarm.

You forgot to mention that France, Russia (USSR), Britain, China also signed the same agreement prohibiting nuclear weapons development by other countries. IT"S NOT JUST AMERICA.

If it was not America's nuclear bomb you probably are a sex slave of japanese occupiers by now.

 

[_dhj_]

The difference is, that America has something to lose, and the North Korean president doesn't. The American President (in general) is motivated by rational, humane factors of being re-elected, being loved by his fellow Americans and bringing security to America. In the same way, he is inclined not to use his nuclear weapons, because he doesn't want retaliation strikes, or a world nuclear war triggering. However, the North Korean president doesn't care about these factors. it is not that he is insane, but simply the environment that he was raised in, and the resultant mentality. For example, the Japanese in World War II. They are not bound by the human motivation of survival. Their sole purpose was to kill you by any means necessary. Another example, the suicidal bombers. Remember the movie line: ' YOu better be afraid. I am a man with nothing to loose'. I would prefer America with a 5000 nukes, than NK with a grenade.

I would say that NK has far more to lose (relatively speaking) than the US if it used Nuclear Weapons. If Kim used nuclear weapons he would almost certainly end up like Saddam Hussaine (albeit facing imminent death following the nuclear launch). Although the US as a country may face retributions, the fact that they have previously used the atom bomb mitigates that impact. Their leaders would certainly not be tried under international law - since the US personel are immune to war crimes proceedings.

In conducting aggressive foreign policies, dictators basically have far more to lose since, if they are defeated in a war, the regime is likely to face collapse (whereas it could have lasted forever had the war not occurred). Dictators also need to be somewhat competent, or else they would be easily overthrown by internal factions.

 

[_dhj_]

Re: North Korea presses on nuclear test and all that shit!

I couldn't of said it better myself.

It is a bit of a truism but how could lunatics ever get their hands on nuclear weapons when they are hardly capable of escaping from the asylum.

If it was not America's nuclear bomb you probably are a sex slave of japanese occupiers by now.

That is an inaccurate statement typical of the insensitive propaganda given to Europe and Asia from US supporters. By the time of the Atom bomb, Japan was on the verge of defeat.

 

[_dhj_]

Re: North Korea presses on nuclear test and all that shit!

It would be better if nth Korea doesn’t test them because it is always better if fewer countries have them and yes I know that is hypocritical. Having said that imo the two most likely scenarios of nuclear attacks would be - no. 2- a terrorist org. getting their hands on weapons from either Russia/Pakistan and using it, no.1 - USA using it on a country as a preemptive strike coz they think the other country might attack them or might have nuclear weapons. I don’t see countries like Iran or nth Korea when they have nuclear weapons using them, coz they aint stupid because if they do they know they would be history. These 2 want nuclear weapons so they can use it as a deterrent against a western power so they dont attack them and to stop the western countries from bullying them like they do right now. That is one of the main reason western countries don’t want these countries to have weapons. Eventually more and more countries will have nuclear weapons whether USA[FONT=&quot] likes it or not.

It started with 1. Now there are 7 official and israel most likely has it though they havent tested which makes it 8. This list will be longer in the years to come. imo japan which is capable of producing weapons even now if they want to, would have it in the near future coz of nth korea.
[/FONT]

I think a lot of what you've said accurately describes the situation. From my point of view I would not like North Korea to have nuclear weapons not because they pose a threat themselves, but because Japan is a country with imperialist ambitions in Asia. A nuclear armed North Korea would certainly give Japan an excuse to go nuclear (a nation that committed monstrous war crimes whose only difference to Germany is that it reveres its war criminal fathers as liberators of Asia). That is not what China wants and China is privately angry with Kim for his disobedience in spite of all she has done for North Korea. It is also likely that China will not honour the defensive pact with North Korea if it goes nuclear. I think even the US would not approve of Japanese nuclear armament for the sheer fact that Japan has a confucian tendency to venge its ancestors. From commodore perry to hiroshima, the US is not in Japan's good books and it might well fight back once it is unleashed.

 

[ElendilPeredhil]

Re: North Korea presses on nuclear test and all that shit!

You forgot to mention that France, Russia (USSR), Britain, China also signed the same agreement prohibiting nuclear weapons development by other countries. IT"S NOT JUST AMERICA.

Again with this argument? I don't care if it's not just America. Stick to the argument at hand! It is America that is demanding the disarment of places such a N Korea and Iran, not fricken France!

As someone has already mentioned, the Japanese were on the verge of collapse already, if they had actually invaded Australia they would have been wiped out by us and our allies.

If it was not America's nuclear bomb you probably are a sex slave of japanese occupiers by now.

And you'd be dead.