P-Plate Restrictions (3 Viewers)

[w00dy.]

^

Its the knowledge they give that matters, we are not talking about a task that needs input from the isntructor in which case Id agree with what you have said, its about learning that you need to pump your brakes in cars not fitted with ABS, that when you have oversteer you need to use opposite lock, or with understeer you need to get your foot of the accelerator and point the tyres in the direction you wanna go etc... simple things which an untrained driver doesnt know and has a crash with while a trained driver turns the same situation into a basic manuover and continues on their merry way

yes, but in some cases there are people who have taken these courses and are still in accidents.

if these courses are going to be effective, than maybe they need to be taken on a regular basis, once every couple of years.

because there is always the off chance that someone has taken one of these courses and still finds themselves in some sort of accident five (or even less) years or so down the track.

 

[timmyh]

ive been pretty interested in the discussion of defensive driving courses. When i first posted this idea i was under no illusion that it was going to create an atmosphere of no p plate deaths. No-one is pretending that if u take these courses u wont be killed in an accident. As was said before all these courses aim to do is better equip p platers to be able to deal with situations if/when they occur. All i am trying to point out is that i believe the introduction of such courses would be more effective in reducing p plater deaths than these new laws. I would also question the ability of police, particuarly in the country, to enforce these new laws, with current police numbers i believe they would be viewed as a low priority.

 

[mcs]

I think that Defensive Driver courses really should be implemented.... as said before it doesnt stop drivers having accidents but it certainly does open your eyes esp when they stick you on the skidpan to just how easily things can go wrong. Its by no means a be all and end all to fix the problem, but it certainly is something that could help. I know it would be a problem for some to get to the courses etc but gee if it helps maybe save some lives on the road then Im all for it. Certainly has more merit if you ask me then some of the slap bang reactions that this government has made to the problem that arent going to do anything to get at the underlying problem which is in a large degree imo a lack of driver skill.

 

[HotShot]

Defensive driver courses ARE A MUST FOR ALL drivers. NOt only learners or P-plater etc.

It should be compulsory and the government must subsidise the costs - but they wont.

We have a shit STATE government and our federal government is just as bad.

 

[LostAuzzie]

how about you stop being so bitter and just agree to the regulations!! if your a p plater the new laws are in place to kerb the amount of p platers dying!! im sure full license holders are dying but not as much per license holders as p platers!!! ive seen more p plate car crash than full license holders in the last 3 months

I am a P-Plater but that is not the reason for my being against the new regulations. I'm against them because like many others (full licence holders and p-platers) I believe the regulations are poorly thought out as I explained in my previous post.

And with regards to the defensive driver courses I too agree that this is a much better idea and will be undertaking one this year. They should sort out the problems with it and implement it as compulsory before getting your Ps. This is prevention as it increases awareness of the dangers associated with driving, these new regulations are are just 'cure' catching the P-Platers causing the problems after they drive dangerously.

 

[scarybunny]

This guy in Mx made a good point- of course there are more P plate accidents now than there were, say, 5-10 years ago. With the P2 system, the number of P platers would have tripled (not immediately, but there would be many more P platers now than back then). I can't remember when exactly the P2 system was introduced, though.


Oh, and everyone who hates the laws with a passion- have any of you actually written to someone that matters (ie not BOS or a newspaper) and said you think the laws are shit? People are saying that nobody listens to P platers, but the vast majority of P platers are happy to whine on the internet but not actually do something constructive about it.

 

[LostAuzzie]

Oh, and everyone who hates the laws with a passion- have any of you actually written to someone that matters (ie not BOS or a newspaper) and said you think the laws are shit? People are saying that nobody listens to P platers, but the vast majority of P platers are happy to whine on the internet but not actually do something constructive about it.

I would have thought the media (including newspapers) would be somewhat worthwhile and constructive, afterall the media has played a huge role in the whole p-plater situation.

 

[scarybunny]

The media is just used to draw attention to matters, which can be a good thing but it doesn't work unless people take the next step and demand the attention of the government (like the people campaigning for changes have done).

 

[HotShot]

This guy in Mx made a good point- of course there are more P plate accidents now than there were, say, 5-10 years ago. With the P2 system, the number of P platers would have tripled (not immediately, but there would be many more P platers now than back then). I can't remember when exactly the P2 system was introduced, though.


Oh, and everyone who hates the laws with a passion- have any of you actually written to someone that matters (ie not BOS or a newspaper) and said you think the laws are shit? People are saying that nobody listens to P platers, but the vast majority of P platers are happy to whine on the internet but not actually do something constructive about it.

Is it worth the effect? P-plater are a minority. Plus its only 3 years?.If you are decent driver you wouldnt care would you? for three years?

The lawes arent so bad, the roads are and so are the signs. Why is the P-plater shold point this out? The general public should. Sydney has the worst roads of all the States bar NT.

 

[scarybunny]

Is it worth the effect? P-plater are a minority. Plus its only 3 years?.If you are decent driver you wouldnt care would you? for three years?

The lawes arent so bad, the roads are and so are the signs. Why is the P-plater shold point this out? The general public should. Sydney has the worst roads of all the States bar NT.

Exactly. The restrictions only apply to you for a year, then you move on. Zero tolerance is a great idea, and the passenger restrictions can be worked around. I'm sure people kicked up a huge stink when the P2 licence was introduced, but now it's just part of getting your full licence. This will be exactly the same.

P platers don't react like other groups because it's a lot of effort to change something that will have minimal effect on them in the grand scheme of things.

 

[volition]

I think these passenger restrictions are much more restrictive than the P2 licence restrictions, you effectively can't drive at all with a group between those hours. It just brings you back to square one, looking for public transport or a lift off 'somebody else' (unless you're prepared to just drive yourself out and leave your friends stranded)

 

[Jiga]

Exactly. The restrictions only apply to you for a year, then you move on. Zero tolerance is a great idea, and the passenger restrictions can be worked around. I'm sure people kicked up a huge stink when the P2 licence was introduced, but now it's just part of getting your full licence. This will be exactly the same.

No it isnt the exact same thing.... one (introduction of P2's) brought in one very minor restriction, limit of 100km/h, the other is placing major restrictions on p-platers on what they can do and when they can do it, in relation to the passenger restrictions at least

 

[Jiga]

I kno this thead has died alittle, but I found this article which was right on the money (prity much summarises what alot of people here have been saying).... READ:

http://www.caradvice.com.au/1121/road-toll-reduction-a-new-approach/#comment-13107

I particularly agree with how stupid it is that you are tested on how to reverse kerbside park (ssomething I have never done while on my p's yet) but not taught how to control a vehcile when its out of control, something EVERYONE will experience in their life.

Also his 'proposed' changes are good to, and unlike the restrictions coming into place... would actually address the issues on the road both among young drivers and older ones (underlined are the ones that I totally agree with) :

"The entire licensing system needs to be scraped and redesigned. There needs to be some attention paid to the following facts:

* All drivers must go through an advanced driving course to learn the limits of their vehicle and also to realize the difference between AWD, FWD, RWD cars.
* Being able to reverse parallel park, do a three point turn and pass your license test doesn’t make you a good driver.
* Passing your test in a Toyota Echo / Suzuki Swift doesn’t mean you can drive a Toyota Landcruise or other 4WDs.
Passing your test in a Toyota Echo / Suzuki Swift doesn’t mean you can drive a Nissan Skyline GTST/GT-R (and any other performance car)
* Not all cars are the same, the stopping distance for old cars and new cars (specially sports cars) varies significantly, making most speed limits completely useless in most cases (I am taking into account reaction time).
* Every driver must redo their license every 5 years, there are countless “mature” drivers on the road who have forgotten how to drive.
* Those who wish to drive a 4WD/High performance car must conduct their licensing test in THAT vehicle.

Police need to stop targeting teenagers simply because they are teenagers. "

 

[timmyh]

yeh i agree too. That article sums it up pretty nicely.

 

[Optophobia]

* Every driver must redo their license every 5 years, there are countless “mature” drivers on the road who have forgotten how to drive.

Um, no.

 

[Cyan_phoeniX]

Does anyone else think this whole idea that people need to know the 'limits' of their vehicle may actually prove bad? I dunno, i'm pretty sure it could breed overconfidence in another way, much like how when safety features were initially put into the earliest cars (i.e. seatbelts) actually increases fatalities (because people thought they were safer, and so tried to get away with more than they otherwise would).

 

[Jiga]

^

I dont think that will occur, with the seatbelts thats because people were less worried about crashing as they thought it would save their life no matter what. Knowing the limits of your car wouldnt have this effect, it would reduce crashes particularly among young people because then they wouldnt be pushing their cars beyond their limits on streets....and dying, instead they do it on a track and learn that the car cant be pushed further. Not to mention they would learn the very limit capabilities of their cars, so they may be deterred from pushing them in the first place when they see how easy it is to lose control (its kinda the same effect autobahns have, you get to speed in a safe area and you dont feel the need to do it against the law in other areas). Eitherway, the guy who wrote that is right, I know Im like that... I pushed my car to its limits in the early days, Im sure everyone does it, some are lucky, others are not and die from it!

 

[lilkiwicutie89]

oh... the rest. sound really strict -_-'

i dont really think it will entirely work that well .. casue ppl will speed, unless if they design cars esp. for P platers.. then it might prevent injury

 

[timmyh]

i dont really think it will entirely work that well .. casue ppl will speed, unless if they design cars esp. for P platers.. then it might prevent injury

sorry, i dont understand ur argument... of course ppl will speed, thats a given. Designing cars for p platers(?) what would u do that is not already inplace in cars?

I agree with this:

Knowing the limits of your car wouldnt have this effect, it would reduce crashes particularly among young people because then they wouldnt be pushing their cars beyond their limits on streets....and dying, instead they do it on a track and learn that the car cant be pushed further. Not to mention they would learn the very limit capabilities of their cars, so they may be deterred from pushing them in the first place

I really think defensive driver type courses would be the most effective

 

[emiliieee]

p-plater restrictions suckkkkkk