People don't know HOW to learn. (3 Viewers)

[yasminee96]

The fundamental reason why people study so much unnecessarily is because they don't know how to learn properly. I don't mean just rote learning but rather attaining knowledge, people don't know how to do so and must therefore compensate by studying much harder.

Discuss

I actually don't understand how people can literally study all day. For example people say "can't go out im studying this weekend". The only thing i personally do is complete homework tasks. But when i do them, i don't just do them and then be happy with the answer if i'm right - i go through it and see WHY it's right, as opposed to only what i did wrong.

If someone listens to everything a teacher says in class, surely they'll get a lot more knowledge and hence waste less time trying to figure things out. If you have a terrible teacher, do something about it, talk to your teacher or to someone who'll take action - it's your HSC; or simply get a tutor.

I notice a lot of people rely on tutors way too much. Some people literally sleep in class and say "it's okay my tutor will teach me" which defeats the purpose of a tutor? You'll learn a lot more by listening to other people's questions and being taught once in class briefly, and then again in depth with a tutor which imo is really effective.

The best thing to do, as Sy said earlier, is go through whatever you did in class for each subject when you get home or perhaps in free periods (if you have any). When i first started yr 11 i was told by my school that i need to be doing 3-5 hours of study a night which imo is extremely unnecessary? Spend about 15 minutes (maybe more if you're confused with something) just going through everything from the days lesson for each subject. That'll make about 75 mins. It's not very time consuming considering the 75mins can be separated into different times throughout the day - mornings, lunch, free periods, after school. With that practice is essential- that's what homework is usually there for. But you cant spend 2 hours everyday just practising? Dedicate maybe one day of the weekend to assignments and one day for hsc questions but not spend the whole day - maybe 3-5 hours per day split up into 1 hour segments.

Surely if people take more advantage of their teachers and class times and every resource they have, they won't need to stay up until the break of dawn just studying everyday. But indeed about 2 hours max is essential every night for revision purposes and to get information stuck in your head, especially if you dont have a tutor for extra revision and assistance. People also need to learn how to "study" without just memorising everything. It's a lot easier to use visual elements such as diagrams, flow charts, graphs etc. because when we try to remember how something works, we think of what we saw when we were trying to understand it. Switching off phones and music and making the most of 1 hour without distraction is a great way to study as well. And rather than wasting time trying to memorise everything, try understanding - it's a lot easier to tell someone a story of an event if you saw it first-hand or if you completely understood what happened, rather than trying to tell that same story with missing pieces and not actually being able to visualise what's happening yourself.


just my opinion...people differ i guess but everyone should try cutting their hours imo

 

[Sy123]

Yes, understanding should transpire in class. However, how are you supposed to understand when you have a teacher who themselves cannot understand what they are teaching?

This only works in an ideal situation where the teacher is able to give the student exactly the amount/style of information that suits the student. I think the student will have to have to understand the content taught in class fully as well. Also, areas of memorisation will often require more time depending on the student themselves.

But I'd say that a maximum average of 1 hour per subject per night is actually quite reasonable for studying efficiently because most days students won't study every subject anyways. I think revision and practise at home is actually quite important as it helps consolidate the content learnt at school so it's alright to spend more than 1 hour on it too. So even in the situation that a student is able to fufill the three points, they may still need to spend more time at home going over the work.

I understand the argument here, and I do accept that some people do have bad teachers but there is still a remedy to it. And I am sure in general most students have adequate enough teachers (especially selective schools, yet its the people in selective schools who in general study the most)


Its redundant for a teacher to try and suit the learning style of every student, that can't really happen unless you want to go 1 on 1 with the teacher frequently.
Its up to the student to adapt to a teaching method.

 

[jnney]

1. I actually don't understand how people can literally study all day. For example people say "can't go out im studying this weekend". The only thing i personally do is complete homework tasks. But when i do them, i don't just do them and then be happy with the answer if i'm right - i go through it and see WHY it's right, as opposed to only what i did wrong.

2. If someone listens to everything a teacher says in class, surely they'll get a lot more knowledge and hence waste less time trying to figure things out. If you have a terrible teacher, do something about it, talk to your teacher or to someone who'll take action - it's your HSC; or simply get a tutor.

The best thing to do, as Sy said earlier, is go through whatever you did in class for each subject when you get home or perhaps in free periods (if you have any). When i first started yr 11 i was told by my school that i need to be 3. doing 3-5 hours of study a night which imo is extremely unnecessary?

1. Some people take longer to grasp concepts than others, depending on how difficult they find the subject to be.
2. Many students in my grade had approached the head teachers of various faculties about the poor teaching qualities. Most often than not, nothing can be done about it. There is shortage of teachers. It's basically, 'tough luck, bear with it'. Also, not everyone can afford tutoring - or maybe they are not able to hire one due to their location.
3. That sounds pretty decent to me, it sounds like what most of my friends were doing. Of course, you don't have to be studying every single night.

 

[jnney]

I would say that 80% of learning is up to the student.

When I say the above, I only mean it that the teacher is adequate enough, if a teacher is inadequate that is the only time where I would recommend a tutor. (no point otherwise)

In the end most of learning is up to the student and if the student doesn't know how to learn who is to blame?

I think it would be more correct to say that the will to be persistent is up the individual, but setting up them up with the right path is a role taken up by a teacher, ex-students, friends etc. That might be providing advice on study and revision methods (such as doing past paper questions), recommending a balanced lifestyle, how to write notes, etc.

 

[jnney]

How do a class of gifted students 'learn' from a teacher who doesn't even care about explaining how to approach a harder 3u projectiles motion question?

My point is that many students do not have the 'ideal' learning environment in schools in which to learn their material properly. Sometimes they don't have a choice. HENCE, due to the fact that their school environment isn't providing them with an adequate learning circumstance with passionate teachers, they must compensate by studying much harder.

Or perhaps some don't learn well in big groups and prefer to absorb material on their own?

I know exactly how this feels.

 

[Sy123]

I think it would be more correct to say that the will to be persistent is up the individual, but setting up them up with the right path is a role taken up by a teacher, ex-students, friends etc. That might be providing advice on study and revision methods (such as doing past paper questions), recommending a balanced lifestyle, how to write notes, etc.

Not really, most of the learning should come from the student. A teacher will give you the information properly and explain it. Its up to the student to devise his/her own study methods and ways of practising. There is no responsibility whatsoever on a teacher or anyone to tell the student how to study effectively.

 

[nerdasdasd]

Not really, most of the learning should come from the student. A teacher will give you the information properly and explain it. Its up to the student to devise his/her own study methods and ways of practising. There is no responsibility whatsoever on a teacher or anyone to tell the student how to study effectively.

Correct. The student has to find their own way. The teacher can't spoon feed that to the student.

 

[anomalousdecay]

Agree, this teacher is full of shit. English is just biased marked.

I thought exactly that about my English teacher. A girl who had bad spelling and only came to Australia 3 years ago apparently writes the best essays in the class.
But she started getting cocky and she got 80% in the first assessments for English extension.
I'll check if others got higher than her. Then I can see whether this is biased marking or not.
Also, I only do Advanced and my ranking for preliminary was higher than 2 extension English students.

My general point; HSC English courses have nothing to do with the language itself but rather only consists of writing essays.
How can English be compulsory where Mathematics isn't?
Even if English is compulsory, the Board of Studies should take our best 10 units, whether it includes English or not.
Even if it is compulsory, they should make the course based more on the language, rather than writing essays.

Please correct me if you think I am wrong.

 

[RivalryofTroll]

I thought exactly that about my English teacher. A girl who had bad spelling and only came to Australia 3 years ago apparently writes the best essays in the class.
But she started getting cocky and she got 80% in the first assessments for English extension.
I'll check if others got higher than her. Then I can see whether this is biased marking or not.
Also, I only do Advanced and my ranking for preliminary was higher than 2 extension English students.

My general point; HSC English courses have nothing to do with the language itself but rather only consists of writing essays.
How can English be compulsory where Mathematics isn't?
Even if English is compulsory, the Board of Studies should take our best 10 units, whether it includes English or not.
Even if it is compulsory, they should make the course based more on the language, rather than writing essays.

Please correct me if you think I am wrong.

I'm pretty sure her spelling would have improved.

Also, if you were to memorise an essay/essays and adapt to a certain question, you probably wouldn't try any sophisticated words that are uncomfortable --> i.e. no/less spelling errors in essays.

So yeah.... it's believable to me...

Also if it's only 1 or 2 spelling mistakes and the essay content is still good then the student will be rewarded with the right marks.

 

[starshine02]

I thought exactly that about my English teacher. A girl who had bad spelling and only came to Australia 3 years ago apparently writes the best essays in the class.
But she started getting cocky and she got 80% in the first assessments for English extension.
I'll check if others got higher than her. Then I can see whether this is biased marking or not.
Also, I only do Advanced and my ranking for preliminary was higher than 2 extension English students.

My general point; HSC English courses have nothing to do with the language itself but rather only consists of writing essays.
How can English be compulsory where Mathematics isn't?
Even if English is compulsory, the Board of Studies should take our best 10 units, whether it includes English or not.
Even if it is compulsory, they should make the course based more on the language, rather than writing essays.

Please correct me if you think I am wrong.

She had bad spelling. Past tense. She could've also had really deep insight into the texts too.

People can still attempt extensions if they want to, though some schools restrict the available numbers.

I think more people would approve of compulsory english if it were actually learning grammar and vocabulary etc but I think english is alright now.

 

[Lieutenant_21]

What do you mean by students "don't know HOW to learn"?
What is there to "learn"?

The HSC is structured in a way that is suitable for people with average intelligence.
Take physics as an example. HSC physics is not real physics. It is nothing like what people do at university. MX1 has more physics than HSC physics. LOL.

Concepts in the HSC are relatively simple. It is easy to learn and understand the concepts but what is hard and what ultimately determines one's ATAR is how you answer the questions.
The HSC is less about conceptual understanding but more about your ability to formulate a full mark response to the question.
How do you formulate a full mark response to the question? By learning the content (rote-learning or conceptual understanding, don't matter for your ATAR) and then learn how the question is marked by doing past papers and learning the marking criteria and exam techniques.

People who get 1st in the state are not necessarily the smartest (except may be 3U/4U maths) but the most hard working ones, the most organised and dedicated.

I absolutely hate the way the HSC is structured because in university the rote-learning and hard work will not help the student do very well. The student will have to develop critical thinking skills in order to manage the insane work load.

Some may say the HSC is fine and doesn't need an update but these people are ignorant, have a look at the world best education systems and compare it to the HSC. Why can't the Board of Studies use one of those? Or is it plagiarism?

 

[golgo13]

I'm quite sure people will agree you can't teach someone an emotion, similar you can't tell someone this is how to learn, although it could be this is the most efficient method to learn, but ultimately the individual has to develop their own method to learn whether that to be rote learn or to just do hw and listen in class

 

[RishBonjour]

My point is that many students do not have the 'ideal' learning environment in schools in which to learn their material properly. Sometimes they don't have a choice.

this

1) 100% attention given to a willing teacher at all times

Its not easy to concentrate all the time when some of your teachers are clearly under qualified/aren't passionate + almost half of the students in your class don't give a fuck about the HSC. Obviously at top selectives + some privates will have almost all students eager to learn + do well in exams but not in 100+ schools mate. so think about that.

Also, you are an accelerated student from what I see on these forums? Unlike you, many people don't care about the HSC until year 12. So when year 12 comes and they realise they need to perform well to get into their course. They have year 11 content to catch up on + year 12. So studying "20-30 mins each subject" lets say 2 hours a day for everything, is frankly, just not enough.

 

[Sy123]

this


Its not easy to concentrate all the time when some of your teachers are clearly under qualified/aren't passionate + almost half of the students in your class don't give a fuck about the HSC. Obviously at top selectives + some privates will have almost all students eager to learn + do well in exams but not in 100+ schools mate. so think about that.

Also, you are an accelerated student from what I see on these forums? Unlike you, many people don't care about the HSC until year 12. So when year 12 comes and they realise they need to perform well to get into their course. They have year 11 content to catch up on + year 12. So studying "20-30 mins each subject" lets say 2 hours a day for everything, is frankly, just not enough.

This response is to everyone who is repeating the same thing over and over again, and that is its difficult to learn in such an environment.

Ok, it might be harder for some people due to their environment, its not like I go to a top selective school, some people in my classes don't care about the HSC, does it deter me? Not really.

Also this thread is particularly aimed at the people going to high ranking schools, who despite the good environment, resources and teachers still find the need to study more than 2 hours a day (not including exam period)

Maybe it is hard for people to imagine not studying as much. If your teacher is bad there are alternatives, yes you need to work harder than other people, yes you need to try and self-learn the course if your teacher is THAT bad (which in most cases is not, and its just the student whinging), then yes more hours a necessary. However if you have an adequate teacher and you are willing to concentrate 100% and yes it is hard to get used to, believe me on that but it is possible and you will become better for it.

 

[Sy123]

What do you mean by students "don't know HOW to learn"?
What is there to "learn"?

The HSC is structured in a way that is suitable for people with average intelligence.
Take physics as an example. HSC physics is not real physics. It is nothing like what people do at university. MX1 has more physics than HSC physics. LOL.

Concepts in the HSC are relatively simple. It is easy to learn and understand the concepts but what is hard and what ultimately determines one's ATAR is how you answer the questions.
The HSC is less about conceptual understanding but more about your ability to formulate a full mark response to the question.
How do you formulate a full mark response to the question? By learning the content (rote-learning or conceptual understanding, don't matter for your ATAR) and then learn how the question is marked by doing past papers and learning the marking criteria and exam techniques.

People who get 1st in the state are not necessarily the smartest (except may be 3U/4U maths) but the most hard working ones, the most organised and dedicated.

I absolutely hate the way the HSC is structured because in university the rote-learning and hard work will not help the student do very well. The student will have to develop critical thinking skills in order to manage the insane work load.

Some may say the HSC is fine and doesn't need an update but these people are ignorant, have a look at the world best education systems and compare it to the HSC. Why can't the Board of Studies use one of those? Or is it plagiarism?

You can still learn a lot in the HSC there is no doubt about that. Just because rote learners are able to cheat the system doesn't mean you have to, if you take the time to learn properly then it is valuable and you have an advantage over a rote learner most of the time.

 

[starshine02]

This response is to everyone who is repeating the same thing over and over again, and that is its difficult to learn in such an environment.

Ok, it might be harder for some people due to their environment, its not like I go to a top selective school, some people in my classes don't care about the HSC, does it deter me? Not really.

Also this thread is particularly aimed at the people going to high ranking schools, who despite the good environment, resources and teachers still find the need to study more than 2 hours a day (not including exam period)

Maybe it is hard for people to imagine not studying as much. If your teacher is bad there are alternatives, yes you need to work harder than other people, yes you need to try and self-learn the course if your teacher is THAT bad (which in most cases is not, and its just the student whinging), then yes more hours a necessary. However if you have an adequate teacher and you are willing to concentrate 100% and yes it is hard to get used to, believe me on that but it is possible and you will become better for it.

There can still be bad teachers, even at high ranking schools. And sometimes it's not the teachers themselves but perhaps the way they go about to teach a subject (like maths). Is the 2 hours in total or per subject? I'm pretty sure about 3/4 of the people in my school study over that limit each day and still go tutoring and still do curricular activities. I do think that some people "overdo" the studying because they don't feel confident studying less than a set amount of time and I happen to know people who aren't happy unless they study a specific amount of time each night. I think that's a bit unnecessary but if they really feel that's the best way to study then that's their way.

 

[golgo13]

It think it's fair to say the HSC is a broken toy in some peoples eyes, however i believe even with it's flaws it continues to run because it caters to a wide spectrum of learners and not the ideal teacher

 

[RivalryofTroll]

My point was that a person who hasn't done shit in year 9,10 and most of year 11 will find it quite difficult to compete against students who have.
But is you have properly structured lessons for conceptual subjects like maths, physics (except some parts), chem etc given by your teachers 2 hours is ample.

Also, do you study in the holidays? a lot of people don't, hence they need greater than 2 hours when school starts.

This is true if you haven't done anything at ALL.

Cause lacking foundations = disastrous for HSC.

 

[Lieutenant_21]

You can still learn a lot in the HSC there is no doubt about that. Just because rote learners are able to cheat the system doesn't mean you have to, if you take the time to learn properly then it is valuable and you have an advantage over a rote learner most of the time.

It is also the wisest thing to do because, as I said, critical thinking/conceptual understanding is essential for university success.
I would love it if the HSC was structured in a way so that it is significantly harder to rote-learn. This would force people to develop the very essential skills mentioned above.

 

[Sy123]

It is also the wisest thing to do because, as I said, critical thinking/conceptual understanding is essential for university success.
I would love it if the HSC was structured in a way so that it is significantly harder to rote-learn. This would force people to develop the very essential skills mentioned above.

I agree with you 100%

http://community.boredofstudies.org/showthread.php?t=297120