Politics goes to church at Hillsong (2 Viewers)

[hiphophooray123]

'rofl I Believe In God Dont Tax Me Or U Will Go To Hell'

 

[shady_03]

'rofl I Believe In God Dont Tax Me Or U Will Go To Hell'

its funny coz it neva says in the bible "give a percentage of your earnings to make it into heaven" yet they preach it

 

[hiphophooray123]

its funny coz it neva says in the bible "give a percentage of your earnings to make it into heaven" yet they preach it

that's what the bible is for.....making stuff up and passing it off as 'proven'

 

[shady_03]

that's what the bible is for.....making stuff up and passing it off as 'proven'

i think the story is somewhat tru, but its passed so many hands u cant really be sure. But yeah, hillsong piss me off

 

[leetom]

I will also point out, withoutaface, the Coalition makes a visibly active effort to attract the votes of the religious extreme, while the extreme left is an unfortunate addition to Labor voting projections.

 

[withoutaface]

Labor seemed pretty intent on getting into bed with Senator Brown at the last election.

 

[leetom]

Labor seemed pretty intent on getting into bed with Senator Brown at the last election.

The alliance with the environmentalists was a last-minute decision made by Latham, probably without consultation or advice. Were it not for an election to be held the next day, the rest of Labor would have spoken out in protest.

 

[chookyn]

its funny coz it neva says in the bible "give a percentage of your earnings to make it into heaven" yet they preach it

giving 10% of earnings to the church is a Biblical principle - it's called tithe.
Tithe is simply used to support the ministries of the church - it is not a means of gaining salvation.

Hillsong don't preach that giving money will get you into heaven. They do, however, insistently appeal to the congregation to give generously and preach that God will bless those who do so.

 

[withoutaface]

What is the result of God's blessing?

 

[absolution*]

Tits, and lots of them.

 

[011]

Though as a life philosophy it's better than say, preaching that rape is right, for example.

 

[loquasagacious]

Actually hillsong preaches that greed and earning money is good (as opposed to preaching the evils of money), the rationale being that the more money you have the more good you can do.

Under this logic it is perfectly reasonable to turn the church into a successful business as in this way the church can gather more money for doing good. Personally I object to it, however if that is what people want that is what people will get. That aside as a profit making organisation I believe that they should also do their bit for society like other organisations and pay tax. If the money all goes to charitable causes then it is all tax deductable and hence they will pay no tax. If it doesnt they will pay tax, this I believe is fair.

Oh and incidently to all the church as a business = wrong, I advise you to cease supporting this by buying thier products. From now on buy no sanitarium products as these are produced by a church.

 

[malkin86]

This to me just seems like a publicity grab - "Such-and-such a pollie congratulates our church, they seem like our kind of pollie." I wonder if they'd attend atheist congregations/conventions, and similarly congratulate the atheists?
From the article, the pollies mentioned didn't seem to be worshipping, just trying to do the publicity thing.
Whereas, when the Queen goes to worship, she just sits quietly in her box, with her half-dozen bodyguards. You're not allowed to stare at her, though. And if you're female, you have to wear little church hats and gloves.

 

[AsyLum]

some of the nicest people i know are hillsong'ers

Most of the crudest people i know are hillsong'ers.

I particularly dislike this notion of Pay 2B Saved which they seem to exude. This whole atmosphere of being saved for one day of the week and yet be a cunniving, underhanded person for the rest of the week angers me no end.

 

[Rafy]

Well most hillsongers are the average working middle class australian, probally have two children with both adults working.

Exactly the target of the howard government.

 

[otay]

I'd like to see the stats as to where Hillsong spends their money. I wonder if it is to make nicer buildings for the church or whether they even consider sending money to Africa and other underdeveloped regions to actually help those in need. If these are the type of people God will be blessing and letting into heaven nowadays, u can sure as hell count me out.

 

[Generator]

A feature piece from The Australian.

Labor's God Squad
Andrew West
July 06, 2005


WHEN Peter Costello delivered a homily in July last year from the pulpit of the Hillsong Church, an 18,000-strong congregation based in Sydney's northwestern suburbs, most Labor politicians seemed ready to write off the evangelical Christian vote.

It had never been, could never be, theirs. They figured it was just another conservative, sectional interest group. After all, Hillsong's members had given a roof-raising welcome not just to the federal Treasurer, the brother of a Baptist preacher, but also to Prime Minister John Howard when he visited in late 2002.

Hillsong senior pastor Brian Houston had, in fact, asked then Labor leader Mark Latham to attend the church's convention but his invitation went unheeded.

But after the Family First party, with its links to the Pentecostal Assemblies of God church, unexpectedly won a Senate seat in Victoria, and when the votes of Hillsong worshippers cost Labor Sydney's western fringe seat of Greenway, which went to a Hillsong employee, Liberal social worker Louise Markus, ending Labor's long grip on the electorate, the ALP belatedly awoke to the potential might of the evangelical vote.

Indeed, the power of congregations such as Hillsong -- with their roots deep in suburban Australia and their "prosperity gospel" in tune with middle-class financial aspirations -- hit home with a thud for one of Labor's top tacticians.






When Senator John Faulkner accompanied John Russell, an ABC broadcaster and liberal Catholic writer, on a recent visit to Hillsong, Russell surveyed the huge crowd, dressed as much for an afternoon of whitegoods shopping as a church service, and remarked wryly: "It would have taken John Howard a nanosecond to realise the political importance of this place." Faulkner knotted his brow and nodded.

Their visit followed what was one of the biggest post-election gatherings of Labor MPs. It took place in the office of foreign affairs spokesman Kevin Rudd, who hosted the first meeting of Labor's faith, politics and values working group.

Its brief from the shadow cabinet was to analyse and understand the evangelical muscle, then reach out to religious communities and explain that Labor, far from being a coven of Christian-baiting secularists, had its own traditions grounded in Jesus's gospel message and the life of what theologians call "the radical Christ".

The initial crowd of 40 MPs who tried to squeeze into Rudd's room has now thinned to a core of about 15; most, but not all, of them are believers. The stalwarts are Rudd, like his leader Kim Beazley a high church Anglican, Catholics Anthony Byrne and Claire Moore, and former Midnight Oil lead singer and NSW MP Peter Garrett, a long-time Uniting Church parishioner. Two other MPs who are not overtly religious but interested in the spiritual hunger felt in much of the community, Victorians Lindsay Tanner and Alan Griffin, round out the group.

On Monday night, the immensity of the challenge facing Labor became apparent at the Hillsong convention at Sydney's Superdome. Costello received his second rapturous reception in as many years, merely for uttering some platitudes about religious devotion strengthening the nation.

But NSW Premier Bob Carr, not a religious man, embarked on a full sales pitch, suggesting his Labor Party was as comfortable with the "prosperity gospel" as any conservative -- a message that will shock Rudd and his fellow committee members.

Rudd is blunt about their original mandate. "The challenge was made sharply manifest by Family First having adopted a 2004 election political posture that was no different from being a wholly owned subsidiary of the Liberal Party," Rudd says. "They preferenced the Liberal Party in almost every seat that counted."

Part of Labor's response to the evangelical challenge will likely involve a series of public consultations with faith communities around the country, much like the Labor Listens forums the party undertook between its defeat in 1996 and its near victory in late 1998. "That is one of the things we'll consider by way of recommendation [to the caucus]," says Rudd.

Rudd's mission now is to ask Family First and the evangelical Christians who support it: "What do you get from the Liberals that you don't get elsewhere?"

Hillsong's Houston insists he is as open to Labor's message as that of the conservatives. "Hillsong does not have a political agenda," he says. "I do, however, support individual Christians who feel called to influence politics, just as I would a Christian having influence in business, the arts, entertainment or sport.

"I would encourage those on the Left of the political spectrum to try to gain a greater understanding of churches such as Hillsong. These are growing churches that represent a broad cross-section of people from various political persuasions. To polarise them as one kind of voter would be unwise."

Garrett, who has expressed his own unease about abortion and opposition to cloning, says Labor needs to "till some common ground" with evangelicals. "I think if you ask them how we should treat indigenous Australians or express compassion for refugees, you'd probably find a lot in common between social democrats and people you might call conservative Christians," Garrett says.

Tanner goes even further, suggesting that far from being in thrall to the prosperity gospel -- the idea that wealth is a sign of God's blessing -- evangelicals might be receptive to a deeper message coming out of the modern Left. "Modern life faces increasing challenges that are non-material," says Tanner, who talks frequently with Sydney's theologically conservative Anglican Archbishop Peter Jensen. "We need to grapple with loneliness, social isolation, the challenges of parenting. In this sense, I'd say Labor and religious congregations are already talking the same language."

Despite its image as a secular party - fuelled, for example, by the image of almost half of the federal Labor MPs being sworn in with an affirmation rather than an oath on the Bible - Labor's religious foundations are as strong as the conservatives' claim on God.

Apart from the well-known connection to Catholicism, mainly through Labor's cultural affinity with Irish immigrants, the party has a radical Protestant tradition. "In the 1970s, Labor under Gough Whitlam represented the emerging society and that society tended to be secular," says Andrew Dutney, a theologian from Flinders University in Adelaide. "But Labor is as much a party of the Methodist church as it is of the Catholics."

Where Rudd will try to draw Labor and evangelicals together is through a redefinition of that popular catchphrase of the Christian Right: family values.

To most, the phrase conjures up only issues of personal behaviour: sexual promiscuity, drug use or homosexuality. To Rudd, coming out of a 100-year-old Christian socialist tradition, the phrase has a broader meaning. "What does family values say about whether you have enough bread to put on your table, or fairness in the workplace, as well as the traditional moral concerns," he says. "We say that while you can fulfil some of your social obligations through individual philanthropy, and that many faith-based initiatives - drug treatment programs, homeless shelters, help for the unemployed - actually work, they can't possibly cover the entire field of human need. Sometimes, you need to harness the resources of the state."

The big test of this campaign to forge a united front with evangelicals will come with the Howard Government's tough new industrial relations laws. Family First senator Steve Fielding has already said he is worried about the law's effect on minimum wages and job security.

But like the Democratic Party in the US, Labor faces an ongoing public relations problem, in that while conservative Christians may buy their policies on economic fairness, they will not accept a package deal that appears to include support for abortion on demand, euthanasia or same-sex marriage.

"A lot of our job simply requires more clarification," says Rudd. "On those so-called 'life' issues, the Labor Party, like the Liberals, has a conscience vote for individual MPs. There is no binding position that makes us any different."

Andrew West is The Australian's NSW political reporter.


Source: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,15835028^28737,00.html

 

[MoonlightSonata]

A feature piece from The Australian.

It's interesting to see more of this actually unfolding -- a month or so ago, Compass did a special on Rudd wanting to welcome religion under Labor's wing. I wasn't sure where he planned to take it but it could prove interesting. Until now the Liberals have had quite a monopoly on being thought of as a party of values in accord with, and in support of, the Christian/Catholic faiths.

Here is the Compass program transcript, which features Rudd talking about Labor and God

 

[Sarah]

It's interesting to see more of this actually unfolding -- a month or so ago, Compass did a special on Rudd wanting to welcome religion under Labor's wing. I wasn't sure where he planned to take it but it could prove interesting. Until now the Liberals have had quite a monopoly on being thought of as a party of values in accord with, and in support of, the Christian/Catholic faiths.

Here is the Compass program transcript, which features Rudd talking about Labor and God

I thought that Rudd was explaining how he came to be into politics and his choice for labor. Wasn't the emphasis on his background and promoting social justice issues the reason for his choice in labor? I thought the link with social justice was his rationale behind welcoming religion into the labor party.

And about the whole liberal party's values being consistent with the Christian faith, well i found it slightly contradictory what i saw on the ABC midday news yesterday. Not sure if anyone saw it but they featured a segment on Peter Costello at the latest Hillsong conference making a speech about how the family is the foundation of society. The next news segment was about IR reforms with Costello talking about higher productivity being good for the economy (something along those lines) and how this will increase real wages.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

I have no real problem with religion gaining power other than that it's very "undemocratic"