Rudd or Gillard? (2 Viewers)

[Mdzabakly]

I want to see Pauline Hanson run a party against Abbott. Labor is gone.

Loolled at thE first thing .

 

[Graney]

You are wrong.

In what regard. I'm not certain they'll do worse with Rudd, but there are a lot of disadvantages to going that way which I feel the media/this thread gloss over, when most of the senior ministers in of the labor party have publicly disavowed Rudd.

Of these three Rudd is the only one prepared to embrace the international community and harness its potential to achieve positive outcomes.

The ambassador to China said Rudd was a huge embarrassment to relations with china and japan

 

[Leffife]

c'mon easy answer. Rudd.

 

[Lolsmith]

In what regard. I'm not certain they'll do worse with Rudd, but there are a lot of disadvantages to going that way which I feel the media/this thread gloss over, when most of the senior ministers in of the labor party have publicly disavowed Rudd.

I don't think Shorten did

I remember watching an interview with him about the leadership spill (when Rudd was attempting a coup against Gillard) and he was very ambiguous about his support.

On topic though: I vote for whatever gets more 'Happy Little Vegemite' videos onto youtube

 

[Mdzabakly]

I don't think Shorten did

I remember watching an interview with him about the leadership spill (when Rudd was attempting a coup against Gillard) and he was very ambiguous about his support.

On topic though: I vote for whatever gets more 'Happy Little Vegemite' videos onto youtube

Shorts prob the smartest of em, only one who know good enough not to publicl hate on ryd

 

[Lentern]

In what regard. I'm not certain they'll do worse with Rudd, but there are a lot of disadvantages to going that way which I feel the media/this thread gloss over, when most of the senior ministers in of the labor party have publicly disavowed Rudd.

An enormous majority of Labor's problems at the moment stem from two sources. The first is the perception of factional bullies with their snouts in the trough being in charge of the shop. People accept that so long as their is major government that there will always be some corruption and nepotism but like NSW Labor under Kristina Kenneally, this Gillard/Swan leadership allows factional hacks like Stephen Conroy and Tony Burke to openly flaunt it. From recollection the members of the ministry who truly roasted Rudd (as opposed to said they would prefer Gillard) were Swan, Crean, Conroy, Roxon, Ellis, Emerson and Burke. Whilst Emerson despite his recent antics is a gifted debater with a sound grasp of economics, the rest are hardly great government asset. Never mind that Turnbull, Hockey, Mcfarlane, Costello and Hewson have all jumped on the record to call Abbott a joke. But the point is a return to Rudd would be a repudiation of this perceived "government by faceless men" and the fact that a bunch of unpopular, factional heavies said that they dislike Rudd doesn't especially work against him all things considered.

The second major problem Labor has is a perceived lack of authority in Gillard's leadership. It comes from a number of factors, the site of Paul Howes boasting about how the factions have put her in power on the night of the 2010 spill didn't help, the whole "don't think of me as a leader, think of me as the friendly girl next door" act that she pulled upon taking the leadership, the hung parliament, the accord with the Greens and the national conference vote on gay marriage have left her bereft of any real authority as a Prime Minister. Politics is all about voters that the government can be trusted to make responsible decisions, when you have a presidential, dictatorial figure like John Howard or Kevin Rudd as leader this essentially makes it the rather simple task of convincing voters that they can trust the Prime Minister. In Gillard's case though she has the enormous task of persuading voters that they can trust her, Christine Milne, Rob Oakeshott and Tony Windsor, Paul Howes, Sam Datsyari and about twenty other factional heavies. You can see from Tony Abbott's dire opinion poll ratings that the electorate is deeply reluctant to have him as Prime Minister yet they are so desperate for a clear chain of command that they are still overwhelmingly saying that they will vote Liberal. But if Rudd is returned that clear chain of command will come with him. The equation will change dramatically, voters will be adjudging whether whom they trust more to manage the economy, foreign relations etc, Rudd or Abbott. And you can cling desperately to your belief that opinion polls are misleading but there is no more scientific way of modelling results, your anecdotal claims are weak by comparison.

The ambassador to China said Rudd was a huge embarrassment to relations with china and japan

I think that might have been the former ambassador. At any rate my understanding is that Rudd had an extremely poor personal relationship with DFAT officials. This stems from the fact that more of less for all time, DFAT have been able to ride roughshod of the politicians who have never had the sort of foreign policy knowledge to come remotely close to rivaling them. Rudd is obviously someone with immense knowledge of Foreign Affairs and a fairly heavy handed approach to his work remains pretty much the only politician to ever challenge the expertise of DFAT and they were deeply resentful of the fact. I'll wager quite a bit that the in private the Indonesian diplomats said much worse about John .

 

[Lentern]

I don't think Shorten did

I remember watching an interview with him about the leadership spill (when Rudd was attempting a coup against Gillard) and he was very ambiguous about his support.

On topic though: I vote for whatever gets more 'Happy Little Vegemite' videos onto youtube

My appalling sources say that fast Billy has long since withdrawn his objections to Rudd and only voted Gillard in February to try and make the party seem more unified. She won't have his vote next time (whether the challenger is Rudd or someone else).

 

[mirakon]

But do u think there will be a next time before the next election, and if so, then when?

 

[mirakon]

As a Liberal supporter, I support Gillard.
She is GUARANTEED to lose any election.
Too many people just hate her, and the way she talks (I think that's the main reason people are against her, despite the commentators' treatises)

I think you can say that abbott isn't exactly the most popular figure either

 

[soloooooo]

I think you can say that abbott isn't exactly the most popular figure either

He is a lot more popular than Julia Gillard.

 

[Mdzabakly]

He is a lot more popular than Julia Gillard.

yea 43vs30

 

[Absolutezero]

yea 43-like 30

The numbers have been fluctuating all year. The only thing that's consistent is the dislike for both of them.

 

[Mdzabakly]

The numbers have been fluctuating all year. The only thing that's consistent is the dislike for both of them.

yes, but i think its at an all time lows for gillard

 

[Lentern]

But do u think there will be a next time before the next election, and if so, then when?

There will definitely be a spill to remove Gillard before the next election unless she calls a snap election. I think there is a good chance it will happen in August. MP's will have just spent the mid winter break back at their electorates, in the immediate aftermath of the carbon prices implementation and the Oakeshott bill debacle. Many of them will be be returning to Canberra utterly convinced that they are going to lose their seat if Gillard continues as leader and will be inclined to take action. If not August I think the last week of November, the last parliamentary sitting of the year, I think if Gillard is still in then there will be a palpable sense of "now or never." I will be astonished if she is still in the job next year.

 

[Mdzabakly]

so it seems that most of the community is either pro rudd, or have lost faith, anyone else?

 

[Graney]

Better dead than rudd

 

[Mdzabakly]

Better dead than rudd

why so anti rudd for?