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Should English be compulsory?? (1 Viewer)

Absolutezero

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Re: Should Maths be compulsory?

What the hell I don't understand is how English is mandatory yet Maths isn't. English is never really used after the HSC, unless you want to become a writer. All you'll need is to be able to communicate in English. Maths is almost used in every course in uni, but not all. Therefore, neither of them should be mandatory, but English certainly shouldn't. It's not like you'll need to write essays later on in life.
!
 

Carrotsticks

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Re: Should Maths be compulsory?

I would have actually liked English if it didn't force people to 'analyse X's feelings' or any of that stuff.

Studying FrankenRunner was actually quite enjoyable because you're making connections between the era in which it was written vs the film/book, but I'd like to see much more direct learning of various writing styles ie: Reports, Journals, Cover Letters, Proposals etc.
 

SuchSmallHands

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Re: Should Maths be compulsory?

I would have actually liked English if it didn't force people to 'analyse X's feelings' or any of that stuff.

Studying FrankenRunner was actually quite enjoyable because you're making connections between the era in which it was written vs the film/book, but I'd like to see much more direct learning of various writing styles ie: Reports, Journals, Cover Letters, Proposals etc.
Technically, some of that should be covered. The HSC examination can specify a speech, a letter or a feature article as we are supposed to learn how to write each of these text types in class. However, this is poorly done by most schools as essays have an extreme over-representation as the selected text-type for the composition piece in the HSC.
 

SuchSmallHands

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Re: Should Maths be compulsory?

But doesn't the HSC normally specify essays?
Yes, hence the focus on essays in schools, but it doesn't have to. If the BoS felt like it, it could specify a letter to a major corporation or speech to primary school students.
 

OzKo

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Re: Should Maths be compulsory?

Personally, I'd rather have report writing and essay writing set against more rigorous standards in all HSC subjects so we don't have to justify having English as a compulsory subject.
 

RealiseNothing

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Re: Should Maths be compulsory?

English is a subject which teaches you how to express an opinion that you have, or knowledge that you have obtained. No matter what you do with you life, everyone needs to know how to express themselves, and the more eloquently you can do it the better. If you can't do this, you should be thankful that everyone in the state is forced to learn this skill, because without it your ability to function in any workplace or any environment is significantly diminished. If you can't write a polished application for a job you will be less likely to be called for an interview; if you don't know how to write academically you will struggle to present scientific findings; if you can't write a formal letter how will you deal with clients? Yet on the other hand, an author can get by perfectly fine without the quadratic equation. It is more universally vital to have the capacity to express yourself appropriately than to perform an array of equations.
I just can't take this post seriously.
 

Absolutezero

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Re: Should Maths be compulsory?

Just putting it out there, there is an "English compulsory" thread as well, so discussion on English should for the most part be taken to there. This one should focus on Math.
 

braintic

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Re: Should Maths be compulsory?

For those who didn't like/get senior English, I wonder how many would say that it has helped them with with their subsequent life. It certainly didn't give me any assistance in expressing myself. And the only analysis I want to do is the analysis of real, factual concepts. Why would I want to analyse someone's intended meaning in a piece of fiction? Fiction is meant to be enjoyed, not analysed.

But of course, similar things can be said about people with no interest in maths being forced to do maths. People say it teaches logical thinking. But this is done mostly by exposure - how many teachers actually TEACH how to think logically. In a similar vein, how many English teachers actually teach HOW to analyse. In both subjects you are merely taught the building blocks, and given lots of examples. Other than by example, how do you actually teach higher order thinking?

Enough of the rant. No-one should be forced to take a subject that is of no interest to them and is not going to help them in later life. The people who claim some essential skills are being taught in these subjects are merely the people who have benefited from learning those skills. Most people don't benefit.
 

Makematics

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Re: Should Maths be compulsory?

English is a subject which teaches you how to express an opinion that you have, or knowledge that you have obtained. No matter what you do with you life, everyone needs to know how to express themselves, and the more eloquently you can do it the better. If you can't do this, you should be thankful that everyone in the state is forced to learn this skill, because without it your ability to function in any workplace or any environment is significantly diminished. If you can't write a polished application for a job you will be less likely to be called for an interview; if you don't know how to write academically you will struggle to present scientific findings; if you can't write a formal letter how will you deal with clients? Yet on the other hand, an author can get by perfectly fine without the quadratic equation. It is more universally vital to have the capacity to express yourself appropriately than to perform an array of equations.

Edit: I do agree with Carrotsticks though, while the subject is a valid necessity the way in which it is taught needs work to promote is applicability.
but you have not completed high school, who are you to say that the 'skills' learnt in hsc english will help you later on? you'll find that most people will claim that hsc english has not helped them in any way, as expected, considering that very few people actually learn the course as it is meant to be learned i.e. some people memorise essays and dont learn anything as sy said, while others dont bother making an attempt

peronally i think that neither should be compulsory, ALTHOUGH students should be forced to choose at least one subject out of a pool of 4-5 subjects. e.g. english, maths, a science.
 

Absolutezero

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Re: Should Maths be compulsory?

As someone who has graduated high school, and proofread a huge range of different non-academic texts (resumes, grant applications, cover letters, news articles, advertising copy, business reports), I dread to think of what things would be like if year 10 English was considered 'good enough'.
 

braintic

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Re: Should Maths be compulsory?

As someone who has graduated high school, and proofread a huge range of different non-academic texts (resumes, grant applications, cover letters, news articles, advertising copy, business reports), I dread to think of what things would be like if year 10 English was considered 'good enough'.
These skills are exactly what is NOT taught in senior English.
Analysing a piece of literature does not give a student the ability to do the things you mention, and is the reason the senior English course is such a waster of time.
 

Drongoski

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Re: Should Maths be compulsory?

These skills are exactly what is NOT taught in senior English.
Analysing a piece of literature does not give a student the ability to do the things you mention, and is the reason the senior English course is such a waster of time.
Agree 101%.

Who cares about critical analysis of texts when even those who have done very well in their HSC English often have spelling and grammatical errors in their writings.
 
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Absolutezero

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Re: Should Maths be compulsory?

These skills are exactly what is NOT taught in senior English.
Analysing a piece of literature does not give a student the ability to do the things you mention, and is the reason the senior English course is such a waster of time.
Yeah, because it's not like the English course teaches you how to structure an argument across a wide variety of text types to respond to a proposition.
 

Tasteless

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Re: Should Maths be compulsory?

Yeah, because it's not like the English course teaches you how to structure an argument across a wide variety of text types to respond to a proposition.
That's what it demands of students, as for actually teaching them how...
 

braintic

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Re: Should Maths be compulsory?

Yeah, because it's not like the English course teaches you how to structure an argument across a wide variety of text types to respond to a proposition.
So, just checking:
How many of the different types that you mention (resumes, grant applications, cover letters, news articles, advertising copy, business reports) are taught in the HSC?

When I say 'taught', I mean that students are taught to write them, not write an analysis on them.
 
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study-freak

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Re: Should Maths be compulsory?

The problem with English is that the current syllabus does not teach how to write reports, resumes or letters, it focuses on literature which IMO I don't think it will be relevant to life. However there should be two courses introduced by the BOS, one on literacy and one on literature.

P.S. While is a good discussion, can we please get back to topic even though I'm sounding hypocritical?
I suppose those skills are assumed for local students doing HSC; the HSC ESL curriculum actually has all those elements. I've learnt how to write essays, speeches, reports, journal & feature articles, formal letters of various types, resumes, cover letters, and briefly language techniques used in advertisements in ESL English, although obviously it was done at a much lower standard than would otherwise be taught at in standard and advanced English if they had a more practical focus.
 

braintic

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Re: Should Maths be compulsory?

I suppose those skills are assumed for local students doing HSC; the HSC ESL curriculum actually has all those elements. I've learnt how to write essays, speeches, reports, journal & feature articles, formal letters of various types, resumes, cover letters, and briefly language techniques used in advertisements in ESL English, although obviously it was done at a much lower standard than would otherwise be taught at in standard and advanced English if they had a more practical focus.
You are ESL? There is no way you could tell. Are there requirements for qualifying for the ESL course?
 

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