Students ditching science in droves (1 Viewer)

study-freak

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Science for year 11 and 12 is a big bundle of bullshit (although I admit that there are many concepts in science with apply to daily life... such as acids and bases for chemistry, and friction for physics)

But Chemistry was (and is still) very dry (there were some moments when I did not know what I was supposed to do for experiments... because my mind could not absorb the required concepts to do the experiments... I still do not understand what "lathering" is for the "Tests for water quality" experiment from Chemical Monitoring and Management topic of year12 chem)

I got HSC chemistry mark 80 aligned... ie.... I got somewhere between 55-60% RAW for the exam.


Physics on the other hand.... much more enjoyable (perhaps this is because the links between physics and daily life is much more apparent than for chemistry....... however, there are some inconsistencies in the course. For example, does Meisner effect depend on Lenz's Law or exclusion of magnetic field lines by the superconductor? or is it both? Many physics textbooks say Lenz's law, but my tutor says magnetic field exclusion.)

My physics hsc mark was 86 (well... I just state my hsc physics mark if that's of any significance)

Oh well... cos I'm very likely to be ditching science for university... (but I might do it if I find that it's the best option for me)
the bolded one.

back to the main topic though:
Personally, I think 50% is still quite a decent proportion anyway. I don't think it's low enough to be a huge concern, though if it's decreasing continuously, that's a problem.
I hope they just get rid of impact on society, Einstein's and Planck's political views, etc from HSC syllabi. These things are degrading the course. There will prob be better feedbacks if they replace them with more meaningful concepts (that aren't too far fetched at HSC level like BCS theory).
 

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Probably because science courses such as Physics are merely history lessons regarding scientific events that happened...
 

RivalryofTroll

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Similar to NerdyGirl, I agree that there's a vicious negative spiral in the Education system.

1. There are fewer people doing Sciences and hence less science/maths teachers.

2. Since there are less science/maths teachers, the BOS (real one lol) has to compensate by lowering the standards, and even hiring overseas teachers. Some of these teachers are excellent, whereas the majority have poor English skills and fail to inspire students.

3. Due to the lowered standard for teachers, we have more and more teachers who just think of their job as a way of making money, and have no intention of interesting to their students or inspiring them to take Science into tertiary education.

4. As a result of #4, students have a poor opinion of the sciences and think "wtf this is crap, I'm not going to become a teacher"

5. Students graduate and do other subjects apart from sciences. Very few go into Education.

6. Back to step #1.

This cycle is also facilitated by the fact that teachers make fairly low salaries compared to other industries. In other countries with excellent Education systems like Switzerland, teachers are very well respected and their salaries are higher (although they pay much higher taxes than in Australia).

If more money were put into teachers salaries, then perhaps it would attract more people, and hence reverse this cycle. If there were some way to make the Education system competitive, and salaries are dependent on teaching abilities, then this would most certainly reverse the cycle. However, this also raises the issue of Education in schools such as Birrong Boys vs James Ruse and how grading the teachers in both schools cannot be done equally etc.

Every time there is a potential solution, there is always a big problem that arises from it.

tl;dr Increase teacher salaries, attract more people to do education, we get good teachers, good teachers make good students, good students go back into education and science, rinse and repeat infinitely.
AGREED.
Back then, being a teacher was a prestigious and respectful job but nowadays, teaching/education is considered as a lower-tier career/course as compared to the more competitive courses such as Medicine, Law, Engineering, Architecture, Commerce, etc. Like, it's usually the older teachers, the ones who are retiring in the next 5 years or so OR have retired in the past 5 years or so, who are deemed to be the better quality teachers (due to high standards back then) as compared to the recent teachers we have nowadays but I guess having more experience does help quite alot. The ATAR cut-off for Education/Teaching should be raised (but not too high) and salaries definitely need to be increased (along with other factors such as technology, better working conditions, etc.) to increase the amount of good quality teachers flowing into schools and attract more people into the teaching industry.
Also, quite a few teachers nowadays don't have the passion to teach (the minority who do are usually the best teachers/inspirational ones) and don't take their job seriously.
In addition, there are very few people in the modern times who'd want to go back into high school scene once again for like an extra 30 - 40 years.... I mean spending 6 years in high school was enough, who'd want to spend more than 5 times that amount again and experience it all over.
 

Shadowdude

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Probably because science courses such as Physics are merely history lessons regarding scientific events that happened...
Yeah, that. I don't care about the 'effect on society' or whatever. I signed up for science, not frigging history lessons and 'ethics'.
 

michaeljennings

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Probably because science courses such as Physics are merely history lessons regarding scientific events that happened...
so true bro, I only picked it cos I thought there was lots of maths involved but my maths teacher said they changed the syllabus a fair bit a while back and now its just about history..
 

someth1ng

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Yeah, the history bit is true aswell - there's more crap to rote learn like - "When did Einstein derive E=mc^2?" or some junk like that.
 

LoveHateSchool

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I've been told by countless teachers how much better the old Physics course was. Actually sounded a lot more interesting, I might have taken it lol
 

IamBread

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Yeah, that. I don't care about the 'effect on society' or whatever. I signed up for science, not frigging history lessons and 'ethics'.
That. There is too much "impact on society" and shit. It should be more about understanding of the subject, not how it impacts society, not what I did it for.

They need to a run a course similar to that of mechanics in 4u so people can do a more maths based physics course, because that really did seem to be the limiting factor in physics.
 

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If that's true it certainly didn't apply to my school. Around 250 people did bio and 100 did senior science (and I know that the people doing SS weren't doing bio because most of them dropped into ss from bio) and that's 75% of the year 12 cohort right there. I like science because it's easy to understand and it scales well, its also an instant A for anyone with an eidetic memory.
 

Shadowdude

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This.

Science is awesome, I wish I could do just maths and science but no, stupid board of studies forces me to do english...
Heh, get to uni and find out why you do English. Because some international students can't speak a word of English or try to speak English and you're left going "??????". And if you're stuck in a group with them... hah, good luck.
 

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This is why I love doing my degree and ONLY maths subjects.

1. I get to do maths all the time, whenever I want to.
2. No silly group work where you're stuck with International students.

I know it's kinda slack to them, but c'mon. Who here would admit that they would prefer a non-english speaking background student vs english speaking?
 

IamBread

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Heh, get to uni and find out why you do English. Because some international students can't speak a word of English or try to speak English and you're left going "??????". And if you're stuck in a group with them... hah, good luck.
Haha yeah that sounds fun.. something to look forward too for next year! I still would have much preferred it if they hadn't of made me do it... I can speak english fine! :D
 

Shadowdude

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This is why I love doing my degree and ONLY maths subjects.

1. I get to do maths all the time, whenever I want to.
2. No silly group work where you're stuck with International students.

I know it's kinda slack to them, but c'mon. Who here would admit that they would prefer a non-english speaking background student vs english speaking?
Well, if they were a fine lookin' girl =P


But seriously, fun irony is that perhaps there are lots of Internationals doing maths with you.

Haha yeah that sounds fun.. something to look forward too for next year! I still would have much preferred it if they hadn't of made me do it... I can speak english fine! :D
I just thought you were one of those "no english is stupid" people, nevermind.
 

IamBread

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Well, if they were a fine lookin' girl =P


But seriously, fun irony is that perhaps there are lots of Internationals doing maths with you.



I just thought you were one of those "no english is stupid" people, nevermind.
Lol, it doesn't bother me people wanting to do english and whatnot, I just don't like it myself and don't like the fact I am forced to do it.
Though I think it had something to do with my teacher..
 

Shadowdude

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Lol, it doesn't bother me people wanting to do english and whatnot, I just don't like it myself and don't like the fact I am forced to do it.
Though I think it had something to do with my teacher..
Maybe. Good teachers can make or break a subject. Finance last semester at uni is a testament to that.

Though at least you do see why we have English as a compulsory subject, I think.
 

IamBread

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Maybe. Good teachers can make or break a subject. Finance last semester at uni is a testament to that.

Though at least you do see why we have English as a compulsory subject, I think.
It was the analyzing the books that got me. It was like we were learning about things from a story someone wrote. It's like learning physics from watching star wars. Just didn't make sense to me.

I do see why they have it compulsory, it would be better if it was more grammar and speaking and stuff rather then analyzing techniques in a poem...
 

Bored_of_HSC

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Though at least you do see why we have English as a compulsory subject, I think.
How about compulsory to be taken, but not compulsory counted in the atar? (or will that just cause people not to give a damn)

Also you learn heaps of those 'English skills' of articulacy ect in your other subjects. (e.g. report writing)
 

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