The Abortion Debate (continued) (2 Viewers)

[robbie1]

what a disgusting thread.

how can you in your right mind support the murder of innocent little babies who cant even defend themselves, and because of selfishness on the part of the mother and/or father never get to see the world?

 

[ur_inner_child]

what a disgusting thread.

how can you in your right mind support the murder of innocent little babies who cant even defend themselves, and because of selfishness on the part of the mother and/or father never get to see the world?

Did you not read the last few posts?

The members have been discussing the influence of religion in the decision making process, special cases of abortion such as in situations of rape and incest and its impact and birth-rate globally. If anything, it seems quite thoughtful, and not the usual bombardment of "womens choice" and "omg life".

Whether you approve of abortions or not, it is not disgusting to talk about it.

 

[robbie1]

Did you not read the last few posts?

The members have been discussing the influence of religion in the decision making process, special cases of abortion such as in situations of rape and incest and its impact and birth-rate globally. If anything, it seems quite thoughtful, and not the usual bombardment of "womens choice" and "omg life".

Whether you approve of abortions or not, it is not disgusting to talk about it.

i was reading through until i saw someone say "get rid of catholicism"....at which point i decided to stop reading this junk and just say wat i think....also read something about how muslims pop out babies left right and centre lol

 

[lexie85]

i was reading through until i saw someone say "get rid of catholicism"....at which point i decided to stop reading this junk and just say wat i think....also read something about how muslims pop out babies left right and centre lol

which is not even true, its more a cultural reason to have lots of kids than religious imo

whats the proper catholic stance on aborrtion anyway ?

 

[dieburndie]

which is not even true, its more a cultural reason to have lots of kids than religious imo

Why?

whats the proper catholic stance on aborrtion anyway ?

They don't really like it all that much in case you haven't noticed.

 

[bshoc]

Yeah it's probably better a kid born out of rape gets raised by either the mother who sees him as a visible reminder of the rape, or by the state, in foster care. We always need more lower class.

Yes it is, and yeah we do.

 

[bshoc]

$hiftyIceQueen's imposes beliefs on others by having a view that parents should not be able to make the decision to have an abortion (or something to that effect).

Every law you live by, every social norm to which you adhere, all of these things, are impositions, in one form or another. Abortion is no different.

You say that you do not wish to impose beliefs, but what is it exactly you're doing again preaching secularism?

I'd be very interested to hear your stance on gun control etc.

 

[bshoc]

DISAGREED. China is a growing population. Our need for zombifying occupation is declining. As far as I'm concerned, kill everything that looks like a foetus. Including Bert Newton. ESPECIALLY Bert Newton.

China and India need way less people, we need way more, if you're going to argue from the population perspective, then abortion in this country should be banned outright, and be state policy in places like China and India.

 

[KFunk]

You miss part of the issue by looking at the level of countries/economies - we have an earth that we all share and it would appear that it is unable to support our population the way we are living and growing. A declining population is a good thing, for the environment, anywhere in the world, especially in first world nations given our ecological footprint. While we could try and take the surplus of people from places like india and china, it could well have a negative global impact by lifting that many more people up to our level of western wastefulness.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

You miss part of the issue by looking at the level of countries/economies - we have an earth that we all share and it would appear that it is unable to support our population the way we are living and growing. A declining population is a good thing, for the environment, anywhere in the world, especially in first world nations given our ecological footprint. While we could try and take the surplus of people from places like india and china, it could well have a negative global impact by lifting that many more people up to our level of western wastefulness.

It's true, but, the original reason this topic came up was because dieburndie used it as a reason to justify abortion.

To me that's really fitting the solution of "overpopulation" to the original problem of "how can we justify abortion?", because if you actually care about 'overpopulation' and 'ecological footprints' you wouldn't be talking about abortion as much as environmental conservation or reducing fossil fuel use.

And I maintain that more abortion, or its equivalent, less pregnancy, is a socially suicidal way to control the population. All it does is cause the existing population to age over time, as is already happening in Japan and parts of Europe. A better way is to cull the elderly or lower standards of living in order to reduce life expectency, which also lowers your ecological footprint while you're at it.

 

[lexie85]

Why?

because look at places like china and india (and their overpopulation)

They don't really like it all that much in case you haven't noticed.

thanks captain obvious, thats why i said 'proper' as in some-one reply with an explanation, bible reference etc etc

 

[dieburndie]

because look at places like china and india (and their overpopulation)

China and India have (or had) high birth rates.
These countries are not majority muslim.
Therefore, the birth rates in Muslim areas have nothing to do with religion?

Fail.

thanks captain obvious, thats why i said 'proper' as in some-one reply with an explanation, bible reference etc etc

Alright. Every human is a miracle planned by god etc etc. Life begins at conception because each life is planned.
Abortion is seen as murder by the church because it prevents what is already seen as a human living and attaining salvation. That's basic, but do I really need to explain further?

 

[dieburndie]

Every law you live by, every social norm to which you adhere, all of these things, are impositions, in one form or another. Abortion is no different.

You say that you do not wish to impose beliefs, but what is it exactly you're doing again preaching secularism?

I'd be very interested to hear your stance on gun control etc.

By "preaching secularism", I'm not wishing that religion being illegalised.
Can you not see the difference?
I don't think guns should be banned, restrictions on acquisition are another matter.

 

[lexie85]

China and India have (or had) high birth rates.
These countries are not majority muslim.
Therefore, the birth rates in Muslim areas have nothing to do with religion?

Fail.

i was talking about the cultural link to lots of babies

 

[ElendilPeredhil]

Yes it is, and yeah we do.

Well you would think that.

How is it better? Why do we need more lower class?

 

[ElendilPeredhil]

It's true, but, the original reason this topic came up was because dieburndie used it as a reason to justify abortion.

To me that's really fitting the solution of "overpopulation" to the original problem of "how can we justify abortion?", because if you actually care about 'overpopulation' and 'ecological footprints' you wouldn't be talking about abortion as much as environmental conservation or reducing fossil fuel use.

And I maintain that more abortion, or its equivalent, less pregnancy, is a socially suicidal way to control the population. All it does is cause the existing population to age over time, as is already happening in Japan and parts of Europe. A better way is to cull the elderly or lower standards of living in order to reduce life expectency, which also lowers your ecological footprint while you're at it.

Yes culling the elderly...sounds good...as long as its not my grandparents or their friends...which is the problem with that solution...
as for ceasing overpopulation in third world countries where its actually a problem...try steralization. One child, then cumpulsory steralisation for the poor.

 

[ElendilPeredhil]

No, you'll do your part! Your grandparents and their friends will go just like the rest of ours! Let us now begin the culling.

Cumpulsory steralisation sounds interesting. As for convincing the poor to kill their little men .. why not start with the rich people? You did suggest that culling the elderly is okay as long as you have no close link to them. So letting the poor people die of their own inability to provide for themselves should pose no moral crisis. After all, if they aren't eating and are living in sand dunes then they are hardly causing much ecological fuss. Us rich people on the other hand (ie. just about everyone who lives inside four walls and buys packaged goods) could do with a bit of TKO for the sake of koala's and red chestnut oaks and the sun-shield or what not.

That was sarcasm. I don't think culling the elderly will work because they are not a seperate class that just appeared from nowehere, they are people's parents and grandparents.

I don't really know what your point was in the next bit...overpopulation is a problem, and as revealed by most western countries, rich people don't tend to have a lot of children, which is why I focused my suggestion on the pooor.

 

[dagwoman]

Just thought I'd bring this discussion back up. What are people's thoughts?

 

[lengy]

There are 800 responses and that isn't enough for you?

 

[bshoc]

You miss part of the issue by looking at the level of countries/economies - we have an earth that we all share and it would appear that it is unable to support our population the way we are living and growing. A declining population is a good thing, for the environment, anywhere in the world, especially in first world nations given our ecological footprint. While we could try and take the surplus of people from places like india and china, it could well have a negative global impact by lifting that many more people up to our level of western wastefulness.

Firstly its not a good thing for the west, the third world can execute their children all they want, I dont really care, but here in the west is another matter. Nor does this justify abortion in any way, abortion is a pretty sick way of population control, no better than the nazi death camps really, since they both work on the same principle. Also wrong is you conception that population/economic growth is consistantly bad, this is hardly the case

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