The Abortion Debate... (2 Viewers)

[Not-That-Bright]

pain doesn't start apparently untill about 12 weeks, but that 10 week embryo seemed fairly alive...

btw this wasn't from an anti abortion website

 

[thejosiekiller]

ah i dont think it matters on the opinion of the website on abortions- it should be fairly open minded and honest when giving ppl information

but would pain still hold the same meaning for a child that had just developed senses- our idea of pain is different to what an unborn child experiences i gather

 

[Not-That-Bright]

no... trust me the child would experience pain like.... ur first kiss, u'd never experienced it but it still feels (kinda) the same every time, no?

And anyway... after seeing that tape would you say that killing it isn't a form of murder?

 

[thejosiekiller]

yeah but experiencing ur very new senses that u have just developed over a matter of weeks- i dont know i think its different to never experiencing something before when at whatever age...but still its pain i guess

i dont know- i do think its killing the child, but its an unborn child- so many issues that have already been gone over in this thread once again come to mind

i cant see the file- im on a new comp that doesnt have quicktime player

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Suction aspiration is commonly used
Most abortions are performed using suction aspiration. The woman needs to be in her first trimester of pregnancy, which means 12 weeks gestation or less. The cervix is dilated with rods of increasing size, and a tube is then inserted into the uterus. The foetus and placenta are vacuumed out. The uterus is then scraped with an instrument called a curette to make sure that no products remain behind. This operation takes less than 15 minutes. If the woman is more than 12 weeks pregnant, she needs to have a mid-trimester abortion.

Mid-trimester abortion
The procedure is similar to first trimester abortion, but preparing the cervix is more involved. The cervix is dilated, then a special dilating device is inserted. This device swells over several hours until the cervix is sufficiently dilated. Drugs may also be used. The abortion is usually performed one or two days later.

http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/Abortion_procedures?OpenDocument

hmm shit we do mid-trimester abortions...

First Trimester
Week 2 Conception is the moment at which the sperm penetrates the ovum. Once fertilized it is called a zygote, until it reaches the uterus 3-4 days later.

Week 4 The embryo may float freely in the uterus for about 48 hours before implanting. Upon implantation, complex connections between the mother and embryo develop to form the placenta.

Week 6 The embryo is about 1/5 of an inch in length. A primitive heart is beating. Head, mouth, liver, and intestines begin to take shape.

Week 10 The embryo is now about 1 inch in length. Facial features, limbs, hands feet fingers and toes become apparent. The nervous system is responsive and many of the internal organs begin to function.

Second Trimester
Week 14 The fetus is now 3 inches long and weighs almost an ounce. The muscles begin to develop and sex organs form. Eyelids, fingernails, and toenails also form. The child's spontaneous movements can be observed.

Week 18 The fetus is now about 5 inches long. The child blinks, grasps, and moves her mouth. Hair grows on the head and body.

Week 22 The fetus now weighs approximately 1/2 a pound and spans about 10 inches from head to toe. Sweat glands develop, and the external skin has turned from transparent to opaque.

The abortion methods for these later ones seem far worse...

Dilation & Evacuation (D&E): (13 to 20+ wks) the cervix is pried open. Using forceps, the abortionist tears the child out of the womb, limb by limb. The child is then reassembled to assure that no fetal parts are left inside. Possible complications include infection, cervical laceration and uterine perforation.

Prostaglandin: (16 to 38 wks) also called misoprostol, this chemical which induces premature labor, is given as suppositories or an injection; live births are common. Hazards include convulsions, vomiting, and cardiac arrest.

Digoxin Induction: (20 to 32 wks) involves injecting a lethal chemical directly into the baby's heart followed by labor induction with prostaglandin.

Saline Abortion: (16 to 32+ wks) a long needle is inserted into the woman's abdomen, and a salty solution is injected into the amnionic fluid. The salt poisons the child, burning its lungs and skin. A dead baby is then delivered within 24 hours. This method is rarely used any more due to the serious health risks to the woman.

Hysterotomy: an unborn child (24 to 38 wks) like a c-section, an incision is made in the woman's abdomen. The baby is removed then allowed to die by neglect. This procedure carries the same health risks as a c-section.

D&X: (20 to 32+ wks) also known as "partial-birth abortion" this dangerous method of late abortion, involves pulling the baby out feet first into the birth canal while the head remains in the uterus. The abortionist then makes a hole in the back of the skull to remove the brains with a suction catheter. The head collapses allowing the child to be removed in one piece.

 

[thejosiekiller]

those later ones r fucked up

murder on part of the abortionist definately- what kind of sicko nutjob does that for a living?

abortions that late are illegal right?

 

[Not-That-Bright]

well from what i read on the victorian health website they allow 2nd trimester abortions which is up to 22 weeks.

 

[thejosiekiller]

ah i think abortions that late are a completely different matter to abortions that occur in the first trimester- i think that because the fetus is becoming more and more human, its harder to actually to abort and the methods by which killing the child are taken....not to mention to health concerns

 

[Not-That-Bright]

i agree but how late, that first clip i showed you was an embryo still in first trimester...

Really i'd probably go for a limit of around.... 4-5 weeks.

 

[thejosiekiller]

oh to actually place a limit on i guess what we are talking about is the legal period in which to have an abortion....its hard cause i definately know its not my position to make such a judgement on whether a mother should be allowed an abortion- because what if they find out at 4 or 5 weeks and start thinking about her options let along carrying thru possibly with an abortion

ud have to take into account a lot of factors and issues.....i think the last thing abortion should be is heavily regulated that privacy of the mother becomes non existent

also if ur placing this limit based on the methods that have to be used according to time period of whatever, i would say without a doubt before the 2nd trimester...but like i said it cant be based on that

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Has anyone seen an abortion? It's suprisingly not that bad. Certainly not repulsive or anything at all.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

i've seen an abortion on an ultrasound, i found it fairly disturbing as it was fairly obvious that the featus was scared...

 

[Nick]

fairly obvious that the featus was scared...

foetus

and how can you tell a foetus is scared

 

[Not-That-Bright]

well when the suction tube starts invading the womb its heart rate goes up, it starts moving around fairly spuratically and people even claim that the opening of its mouth is a scream...

 

[girlanachronism]

Thats complete horse shit

 

[Not-That-Bright]

this was at 12 weeks, it's not horse shit.

 

[LadyBec]

those later methods are horrible....
I'm pro-choice though, and i don't see abortion as murder. I don't really see it as being a person untill it is able to survive independently. It's a very heavy issue though.

Meanwhile, how can you tell if a featus is scared?

 

[superbird]

Has anyone seen an abortion? It's suprisingly not that bad. Certainly not repulsive or anything at all.

http://www.abortiontv.com/AbortionPictures1.htm

Sorry but you must be really fucked in the head to suggest that abortions aren't repulsive

 

[crazyhomo]

http://www.abortiontv.com/AbortionPictures1.htm

Sorry but you must be really fucked in the head to suggest that abortions aren't repulsive

ummmm...those were pictures of foetuses, not pictures of abortions. you do understand the difference, right?

 

[BlackMamba]

http://www.abortiontv.com/AbortionPictures1.htm

Sorry but you must be really fucked in the head to suggest that abortions aren't repulsive

I most definantly agree with you, that is extremely repulsive and disgusting... but i have to stand by the fact that, ur body ur choice... telling someone they cant get an abortion is an invasion of their body and their right to have control over their body, personaly i am neither pro abortion or anti abortion, but i believe that women deserve to have the choice. because some situations is beyond their control and at times it is neccessary.

Personaly I would want to have the choice.