The Beijing Olympics (2 Viewers)

[boris]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

PETA hasn't achieved anything. PETA are fucking idiots.

So they've made a few companies boycott Australian wool. Do you want to know how many of those companies came back a few months later?

All PETA ever manage to do is get dumbarse celebrities to follow their cause, without giving them the proper information (lol Pink)

PETA base campaigns on emotion, not fact.

Poor example.

 

[Tulipa]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

Petitions have worked for many years (eg PETA).
In any case people pay tax and tax goes to the government. They're helping the government kill its people. Where is the logic in that?

What did PETA ever accomplish with a petition?

And buying Chinese products gives MORE money to the Chinese Government. So why don't we stop buying products from China? That'd be a much more effective boycott. I don't understand why you keep skirting that issue. It'd make more much sense.

 

[bassistx]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

Do a google search, sigh. I really can't be bothered.

 

[boris]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

We don't need to do a Google search. If you're going to say 'lol but PETA petitions work all the time', by rights you should have a clear example in your head.

I just gave you an example of where they tried and failed miserably.

 

[bassistx]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

What did PETA ever accomplish with a petition?

And buying Chinese products gives MORE money to the Chinese Government. So why don't we stop buying products from China? That'd be a much more effective boycott.

Google. I don't support PETA so I'm not going to stand up for them. I was simply giving an example.

I, as an individual, try to where possible.
If the Aus government was to say so, I'd be the first person on the bandwagon. However, this would also cut trade ties with Aus minerals (uranium, etc). I don't know enough about the impacts to weigh the good/bad here.

 

[bassistx]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

We don't need to do a Google search. If you're going to say 'lol but PETA petitions work all the time', by rights you should have a clear example in your head.

I just gave you an example of where they tried and failed miserably.

You fail to ignore me lol.

I don't support PETA. I'm not going to stand up for them. I receive a lot of their email updates btu I can't access my mail. Sorry. I can't come up with anything off the top of my head. But success stories do exist, whether it's PETA or another organisation.

 

[Tulipa]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

I googled. There was nothing.

If the Aus government was to say so, I'd be the first person on the bandwagon.

So why doesn't that apply to the Olympics? Bit flawed in your logic aren't you?

 

[boris]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

Yeah I googled too. There is nothing. PETA is shit. If PETA claim to have a successful petition, you can guarantee that it was an epic fail.

 

[bassistx]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

I googled. There was nothing.

Sign up for their email updates then. I seriously don't want to dig through cyberspace to find you articles. Search anything. Any organisation. Don't tell me a petition has never worked.

So why doesn't that apply to the Olympics? Bit flawed in your logic aren't you?

You lost me. Again, please?

 

[Tulipa]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

Sign up for their email updates then. I seriously don't want to dig through cyberspace to find you articles. Search anything. Any organisation. Don't tell me a petition has never worked.


You lost me. Again, please?

If the Aus government was to say so, I'd be the first person on the bandwagon.

Applies to boycotting Made in China products.

Yet you're willing to boycott the Olympics even though the Australian gov hasn't said anything about it and you know that the consequences are A) more symbolic than pratical and B) detrimental to athletes who have worked hard to get there.

So, your logic is a little bit flawed there.

 

[ObjectsInSpace]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

OIS, I didn't come back to this thread 'til now...
Anyhoo.

First you claim banning CFCs was bad then you say you have no place to lol.
Btw, conscience*

No, I outlined reasons why banning CFCs might have been a bad idea. I didn't say whether the decision t ban the was good or bad.

I don't consider one-line provocative questions to be an argument. Nor am I interested in one.
But I will say this: The Olympics = money
Money = power
Power in China = disaster

The same argument - that money equal power and power is bad - can be made of any developed nantion. Look at the impoverished African countries where aid money frequenty finds itself in the numbered Swiss bank accounts of the ruling party.

The rich get richer the poor get poorer.
I understand what you're saying, but giving the "enemy" more money and saying "Oh yeah, you're cruel, but we came for our own selfish reasons to win some medals" doesn't justify anything... We have a "moral and ethical responsibility". I personally believe humans should look out for each other. If we never did, we wouldn't last very long.

Don't preach to me about our moral and ethical rights, because it's obvious you believe it for about as long as it takes you to say it. You're seeing the world in black and white terms, and you're missing all the subtle shades of grey in between. Most of the time, when people talk about their morals and ethical responsibilities, they're only looking to say they can have a clear conscience. You say boycotting the Games - even when it's proven to do nothing - is the right thing to do, but what are you really saying? You want us to look good on the world stage. You don't care about Tibet! You're just using them to justify your own selfish attitude! Who's exploiting them now?

 

[romancandle]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

Clearly there are arguments for and against Australia not sending an olympic team. However, I think that ignorning human rights abuse because china will become the new world power and we will piss them off... is not a valid argument. Some people in this discussion have been alligning themselves to this, and by doing so I not only think youve lost the battle before its begun, but are more worried for your future (which is relatively secure in Australia)then those who may not have one at all. And thats fine, your entitled to that point of veiw. I just hold a different one.

Perhaps a boycott is to extreme, but I think Australia needs to take a direct stance against this. Our Prime Minister should just not be expressing a feelling that Chinese authorities should show restraint, perhaps he should be just saying "China your actions are degrading and are ones that violate human rights. Your just plane wrong". Something along those lines. Apart from anything, as people have pointed out we must consider our athletes in this equation, who have put in so much work and effort and deserve to trialed and tested against the worlds best.

If we were to send our team under a 'protest banner', publicly against the violations and our team makes these protests public whilst in Beijing, that will probably acheive more then not rocking up at all. This is maybe a compromise of whats been said in this discussion? Maybe an envoy from our team could publicly deliver a petition to China? With all the publicity and press, it is very unlikely any negative or physical action would be taken against our athletes, or our representatives. If China was so stupid as to do this, they would shoot themselves in the foot on an international scale.

 

[Tulipa]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

However, I think that ignorning human rights abuse because china will become the new world power and we will piss them off... is not a valid argument. Some people in this discussion have been alligning themselves to this, and by doing so I not only think youve lost the battle before its begun, but are more worried for your future (which is relatively secure in Australia)

That's not really the point being made here. A boycott would do virtually nothing. It didn't do anything for the 1980 Moscow Olympics and it will be more of a symbolic measure than doing anything practical.

If we were to send our team under a 'protest banner', publicly against the violations and our team makes these protests public whilst in Beijing, that will probably acheive more then not rocking up at all. This is maybe a compromise of whats been said in this discussion? Maybe an envoy from our team could publicly deliver a petition to China? With all the publicity and press, it is very unlikely any negative or physical action would be taken against our athletes, or our representatives. If China was so stupid as to do this, they would shoot themselves in the foot on an international scale.

That'd be something better than a boycott but at the same time, what is it really going to achieve? The world knows about this. It needs to do something more practical. Both of these suggestions are symbols, no more.

 

[bassistx]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

Applies to boycotting Made in China products.

Wait.... Did I not say I was trying?
And did I again not say that I was collecting petitions?
Whether it's something the government announces or not, I'm still working on it. But if it starts at the head of the state then it's obviously going to be much more effective.
If that's what you mean. I honestly don't understand. I tried. I failed.

I know, I considered the athletes. I take boycotting as a threat. I don't think what happened in Moscow will happen again. But if you just mention "boycott", it creates insecurity and nervousness.
Is a push for human rights insignificant compared to the success of athletes?
I know it's symbolic if anything, but let me make it clear here that what I am working on (petitions etc) is for human rights, in the spirit of the Olympics, to go easy on people. Not to cancel the Olympics completely. But if they're going to host such an event, their people should be happy about it.

You want us to look good on the world stage. You don't care about Tibet! You're just using them to justify your own selfish attitude! Who's exploiting them now?

You're more uptight than I ever could've imagined. Don't make it personal. You don't know me well enough. You don't know me at all, actually.

 

[boris]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

The only way a boycott would affect China would be if Australia, America and Europe were to boycott trading and industry with China.

As this would effectively hurt us as much as it'd hurt them, it's not going to happen.

And essentially all that would happen would be the Chinese people would become more impoverished. So you know. Threatening and boycotting China isn't going to do anything to help the situation.

 

[Tulipa]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

The only way a boycott would affect China would be if Australia, America and Europe were to boycott trading and industry with China.

As this would effectively hurt us as much as it'd hurt them, it's not going to happen.

And essentially all that would happen would be the Chinese people would become more impoverished. So you know. Threatening and boycotting China isn't going to do anything to help the situation.

Agreed.

People are aware of the issues in China. This isn't going to raise awareness nor is it going to help anyone. If it's symbol that's going to cause more damage than anything why do it?

Also, why wouldn't what happened at the 1980 Olympics be repeated? Same situation, same outcome.

 

[bassistx]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

If we were to send our team under a 'protest banner', publicly against the violations and our team makes these protests public whilst in Beijing, that will probably acheive more then not rocking up at all.quote]
This would be great.

You'd have to be made of cold, hard stone to not be moved by anything symbolic. I assume you weren't in favour of the apology speech by Mr. Rudd?
It's better than doing nothing at all. That definitely doesn't achieve anything. Raising awareness does something.

 

[Tulipa]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

You'd have to be made of cold, hard stone to not be moved by anything symbolic. I assume you weren't in favour of the apology speech by Mr. Rudd?
It's better than doing nothing at all. That definitely doesn't achieve anything. Raising awareness does something.

The problem isn't awareness. People know about this. Governments worldwide have known about it for years.

The point is this isn't going to do anything good. Athletes will be disappointed and the Chinese people themselvevs will lose money.

Sending them there with a protest banner is all well and good. It's a good idea but again, all you're doing is telling people what they already know.

Again, the only way anything is going to change is an economic boycott.

 

[bassistx]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

I don't think any countries our going to boycott the Olympics is what I meant. I don't think there will be a Moscow repeat.
I completely understand what you guys are saying and I agree - it would hurt if we stopped trading with China.
But in the spirit of the Olympics and what they represent, we're hoping to achieve something.
Forget about boycotting then. What are you going to do about it?
It's either the Chinese people stand up for themselves (revolution) or they get other nations to boycott in hopes that their government will listen to the other nations' requests so they can continue to trade.

Boycotting could backfire, but it's worth a try sometimes.

 

[bassistx]

Re: Boycott of Olympics

The problem isn't awareness. People know about this. Governments worldwide have known about it for years.

The point is this isn't going to do anything good. Athletes will be disappointed and the Chinese people themselvevs will lose money.

Sending them there with a protest banner is all well and good. It's a good idea but again, all you're doing is telling people what they already know.

Again, the only way anything is going to change is an economic boycott.

I'm talking about individuals. The people who don't know outweigh those who know. If everybody knew, they would make their voices heard by their government and push them to boycott etc.

I would lose money for my rights if I had to. I wouldn't like to be tortured and killed just for something I believe in.
Life > Money

Economics would be effective, definitely. But I don't know if it's going to do more good than harm.