The Bible (2 Viewers)

[Not-That-Bright]

LOLZ.

I lol'd too when i wrote that.

 

[robbie1]

I'd like to point out that the first half of the Hail Mary is a direct quote from Scripture. The second half is asking her to intercede for us, as she is our Blessed Mother (Jesus gave her to be our Mother while dying on the Cross).

I refer you now to the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

II. DEVOTION TO THE BLESSED VIRGIN

971 "All generations will call me blessed": "The Church's devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship."The Church rightly honors "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of 'Mother of God,' to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs.... This very special devotion ... differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration."The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary.

III. MARY - ESCHATOLOGICAL ICON OF THE CHURCH

972 After speaking of the Church, her origin, mission, and destiny, we can find no better way to conclude than by looking to Mary. In her we contemplate what the Church already is in her mystery on her own "pilgrimage of faith," and what she will be in the homeland at the end of her journey. There, "in the glory of the Most Holy and Undivided Trinity," "in the communion of all the saints,"The Church is awaited by the one she venerates as Mother of her Lord and as her own mother.

In the meantime the Mother of Jesus, in the glory which she possesses in body and soul in heaven, is the image and beginning of the Church as it is to be perfected in the world to come. Likewise she shines forth on earth until the day of the Lord shall come, a sign of certain hope and comfort to the pilgrim People of God.

..........................................................................................................................................................................

Now back to me....Mary is a great source of inspiration as she responded to God's call in such a way that we all should.

"I am the Lord's servant," Mary answered. "May it be to me as you have said." (Luke 1:38).

She said yes to God even though she didn't understand. She accepted what was going to happen to her as God's will and because she said "yes" the Saviour was able to come into the world.

Protestants have a big problem with the Catholic devotion to Mary. In a sense I understand where they are coming from (because maybe at first glance Scripture supports their stance). However, they really don't make the effort to see where we are coming from because if they did, they would realise Mary is OUR mother - Christ himself gave her to humanity to be our mother and Jesus refuses nothing his Mother asks of him.

John 2:3 - this is a very signifcant verse in Scripture. As our mother, Mary tells all of us to do whatever Jesus tells us. Further, Mary's intercession at the marriage feast in Cana triggers Jesus' ministry and a foreshadowing of the Eucharistic celebration of the Lamb. This celebration unites all believers into one famiy through the marriage of divinity and humanity.

John 2:7 - Jesus allows His mother to intercede for the people on His behalf, and responds to His mother's request by ordering the servants to fill the jars with water.

I hope that makes it a bit more clear. Feel free to PM me if you have any more questions and don't want to ask publicly.

 

[robbie1]

lol at robbie11 starting a thread, suddenly someone called brendan11 responds.

lol - robbie1, not 11.

 

[Tulipa]

He didn't reply to my logical posts.

I guess someone really loves their blind faith *sigh*

Plus someone explain to me how Christians are not whiny.

 

[Josie]

I know, he keeps answering the same question, and ignores all the others.

And Robbie1, Mary was a vessel for Jesus to be born. No more, no less. As I said the first time, the quotes you keep supplying keep telling us Jesus was an important figure in Jesus' life. That's nice. Even if you do consider her "your mother" (and I think a mother figure is deserving of respect, not the worship that Catholics DO practise, whatever the doctrine may say), that doesn't mean you should worship her above any other mortal woman.

Ahh, to live your life on faith. It must be so comforting to have the entire responsibility for your life shouldered by someone else.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

He didn't reply to my logical posts.

Yea, I've already pointed out what this thread is about. Robbie1 just wants us to bring forward bible quotes so he can come back with some wild confabulation that's about as good as I could do as a defence of greek myths. That's the game. Don't try to bring anything new into the fray, don't try to question the axioms on which the game is built, don't challenge the usefulness of such a game at all - merely play it so he can feel good about himself.

 

[Josie]

Well, we all like feeling good about ourselves... but most of us don't go to that sort of length.

 

[robbie1]

I know, he keeps answering the same question, and ignores all the others.

And Robbie1, Mary was a vessel for Jesus to be born. No more, no less. As I said the first time, the quotes you keep supplying keep telling us Mary was an important figure in Jesus' life. That's nice. Even if you do consider her "your mother" (and I think a mother figure is deserving of respect, not the worship that Catholics DO practise, whatever the doctrine may say), that doesn't mean you should worship her above any other mortal woman.

Ahh, to live your life on faith. It must be so comforting to have the entire responsibility for your life shouldered by someone else.

Thanks, but I don't need you (an atheist) tell me what the Blessed Virgin Mary is to me. Christ himself told me while he was dying on the cross, as I have pointed out several times yet you people ignore it.

Now please enlighten me, which questions have I ignored?

 

[robbie1]

He didn't reply to my logical posts.

I guess someone really loves their blind faith *sigh*

Plus someone explain to me how Christians are not whiny.

You were ignored because it is obvious that you have no understanding of what prayer is and no respect for other peoples beliefs.

Please explain to me how Christians ARE whiny.

 

[withoutaface]

Please explain to me how Christians ARE whiny.

You were ignored because it is obvious that you have no understanding of what prayer is and no respect for other peoples beliefs.

End of argument.

 

[Josie]

You also ignored the point earlier about the apostles being authorised to forgive sin... now I may have missed it, but please share the verse where they are authorised to choose others to also forgive sin? I'm not denying the power of the apostles to do so, merely the right of modern day priests to do so. (I've got my old Protestant hat on again...)

1 Kings 2:19 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom the King bows down to his mother and she sits at his right hand. We, as children of the New Covenant, should imitate our King and pay the same homage to Mary our Mother. By honoring Mary, we honor our King, Jesus Christ.

So which one is your king? Is it David, or Jesus? Or is the Holy Trinity actually a Holy Quadruplet?

Oh and here's one I've been meaning to ask. Whenever someone brings up a quote from the Old Testament (ie Leviticus and the stoning of homosexuals) in this sort of discussion, the first thing that's usually said is that the New Testament was given to us by Jesus to clarify the way we should live, or something along those lines. If that is in fact true, then why does the Bible still contain the Old Testament? Is it not now obsolete (for everyone excepting the Jews)?

That's about 3 pages back.

I do wish you'd stop being so condescending.
And as I've stated several times, I'm using examples from my upbringing as a Protestant and what the Protestant religion believes, not my atheist beliefs.

And in your response, post the actual verses, not "hey folks, this is my summary of the verse". That's a terrible (mis)use of evidence.

 

[Tulipa]

Dude I was raised as a Christian then I turned 10 and realised it didn't make sense. You are the one being rude, I am outlining out valid points.

Christians (IMO) are whiny because they raise prayer up to be this big thing right? That you should pray to God for your sins and that maybe if you pray enough he might make something bad in your life turn out alright.

Yet God has this big plan for the world, he is meant to be an omniscient creator, all being all the time, so why would he bother to listen and constantly change his plan because of prayer?

That doesn't make sense at all.

 

[lengy]

I am better than you. I know more than you. Cause I am a Theist, and I have God on my side, therefore I am always right.

Now please enlighten me, which questions have I ignored?

EFT.

 

[brendan11]

CHRISTIANS ARE SO0o0o0o0o0o NOT WHINY!!!!!!!:burn: :burn: :burn:

 

[lengy]

 

[bazookajoe]

South Park sure was right about Atheism.
"Mere logic doesn't work, you must also be a dick to others who disagree with you."

 

[Not-That-Bright]

South Park sure was right about Atheism.
"Mere logic doesn't work, you must also be a dick to others who disagree with you."

I was at TAM in vegas when matt stone/trey parker explained their stance on religion. They're not atheists, they think religion's bullshit but at the same time something they dislike more is those who feel the need to bully other people over their beliefs.

They took pot shots at Richard Dawkins, which I actually think was unfair to him as he's probably not all what they made him out to be (more perhaps he's made out to be what they think he is, by some of his fans).

 

[UnIqUe_PrInCeSs]

CHRISTIANS ARE SO0o0o0o0o0o NOT WHINY!!!!!!!:burn: :burn: :burn:

<3

 

[bazookajoe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE_zEJL0Km4
Stone and Parker's views on religion are near the end of that clip.

"Out of all the ridiculous religion stories-which are greatly, wonderfully ridiculous-the silliest one I've ever heard is "yeah...there's this big giant universe and it's expanding, it's all gonna collapse on itself and we're all just here 'just cuz'..."just cuz". That, to me, is the most ridiculous explanation ever."

I think they just took shots at Dawkins because he's seen as the "major player" (so to speak) of Atheism. All Dawkins complained about was his accent and the fact he had sex with Mrs/Mr Garrison, interesting that he didn't respond to the views of Evolution and atheism in general seen in the episode (Stan says "Couldn't evolution be the answer to how and not the answer to why?")

 

[lengy]

Yeah, it's okay for discriminate against the faithless but when you start making jokes about theism all hell breaks loose.