The moderates and the conservatives - the state of the NSW Liberal Party (4 Viewers)

[Not-That-Bright]

Yes you're right about them being married, but of course you can't "test" people to see if they're gay (I guess u could, but that'd be embarassing lol) so I feel someone being openly gay is the best test.

Tho this is just a little spin off theory that could be totally crazy.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

John Stuart Mill. Marketplace of Ideas. Without it all we have is dogma. It is what democracy is based on. Maybe you should read it.



Most Australian people can criticise christianity because they feel like they know enough about it to criticise it.

The majority of Australian people would not agree with a number of things in the muslim religion. But we tend not to comment because we tend to think we dont know enough about it to comment. Either that or we just dont care.

I dont want a society based on 'christian morality'. I'd much prefer a society based on democratic principles which is what we have. These principles happened to have often been formed in places where christianity is the main religion.

A social based on one view of christian morality is just as bad as a state that has sharial muslim law.








I believe this government can easily be distinguished from past Liberal governments. Menzies certainly would not have agreed with John Howard anti democratic reforms.

I'm talking about gag orders on anyone who dissents against his government...constructive or otherwise.

Just like the majority of Australia people you are misinformed about asylum seekers, and you perpetuated a lie which, if you took 3 mins to look up or had any knowledge of refugee law or migration law, you would know that there was no basis for your claim.




No one has suggested that. You are the only person suggesting that.

Anyways the values found in the muslin religion accord with the RIGHT more than the left. Certainly the left does not approve with the way muslim women are seen within muslim law.




Hack it. You honestly have no idea. Your worldview is so utterly skewed that you can only resort to extreme hypobolic examples of leftism.

Mainstream Australia (like you) hardly has any idea of what the Howard government does.

How can you justify a government that actively attempts to kill off dissent by placing gagging orders on bodies that criticise them. By sending them threatening letters telling them they will loose their tax exempt status if they criticise the government?

How can you support a government that gives money to those organisations that do not criticise them?

How can you support a government that attacked a HC judge based on his sexuality because they dont like his decisions...which all turned out to be a lie?

How can you support a government that wants to reform the senate so that minor parties cannot gain seats?

Do you have any interest in democracy?

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Asquithian again.

Upholding sanity

 

[Jonathan A]

Young Lib taunts the wets: go to the Greens



Interesting. Which would you prefer, an apparently uneasy alliance between the liberals and the conservatives, or a clear cut conservative party? Perhaps, in time, this may lead to the emergence of a third political party of some import in our state.

I am of the 'right faction', wet libs have no place in the party, however many do contribute quite significantly to producing credible solutions to the problems set by the Carr Government. I know Alex, he is certainly political and leadership material and ought to be credited for his hard work.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Conservatives (IMO) are always willing to listen to left idea's AND liberals are always willing to listen to Conservative ideas, I've found... It's an important marriage, and it is perhaps not best for it to be divided under party lines.

For example, If you're a Libertarian in Australia, you'd have to join the Liberals and try to force change from the inside of that party.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

wet libs have no place in the party

 

[Xayma]

Without the wet Liberals there would be no Liberals. The conservative's could not hold power.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

thats a crazy thought u have there Xayma...
while there could be a LITTLE truth to it, i think you'll find most people have conservative values, and as long as the economy ran well most people wouldn't complain.

Probably not as crazy as Jonothan's tho, as I explained in an above post... you need moderates etc to express DIFFERENT idea's, how many liberal ideas have conservative governments adopted?

 

[Xayma]

That's the thing, if the wet Liberals were to split up, it could cause votes to be split in the elections were wet and dry Liberals were campaigning. I have no doubt the conservatives would win more seats, I just don't think they would have enough without a coalition with the Nationals and wet Liberals to prevent Labor taking power.

In time the wet Liberals would probably dissolve, but at least initially I think people would be unwilling to change the person in power inside their seats, be they wet or dry.

 

[frog12986]

I agree with Asquithian on the 'children' debate in relation to homosexual couples. Whilst they may have the best intentions and may also create an undoubtedly loving atmosphere, I perceive both masuline and feminine influences necessary in the socialisation process. The balance teaches children a large range of behaviours and skills etc that, in all intents and purposes, would not be able to be provided by same sex couples...

I've seen the results of a 'test tube' baby, the son of two lesbians, and it produced a male that had a high volume feminine attributes and essentially created more problems than were necessary..(taunts etc)

Not only humans, but the vast majority of animals endure the same process, whereby the mother and father both contribute essential elements in the upbringing of the offspring...

 

[MoonlightSonata]

I agree with Asquithian on the 'children' debate in relation to homosexual couples. Whilst they may have the best intentions and may also create an undoubtedly loving atmosphere, I perceive both masuline and feminine influences necessary in the socialisation process. The balance teaches children a large range of behaviours and skills etc that, in all intents and purposes, would not be able to be provided by same sex couples...

Society should make those sorts of assumptions when we see some actual evidence and research results. In the meantime, it is mere speculation.

I've seen the results of a 'test tube' baby, the son of two lesbians, and it produced a male that had a high volume feminine attributes and essentially created more problems than were necessary..(taunts etc)

My dad has black hair and he is smart. Therefore everyone who has black hair is smart.

Not only humans, but the vast majority of animals endure the same process, whereby the mother and father both contribute essential elements in the upbringing of the offspring...

Because animals are such good role models and all. Nevertheless you beg the question by saying that they "contribute to essential elements" of upbringing, those essential elements being the need for a mother and father. (Explain what the essential elements are?)

Incidentally there is quite a lot of homosexual activity in the animal world.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Frog, you do realise alot of animals are gay don't you?

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Probably not, but I assume he thinks a lot of gays are animals

 

[frog12986]

I did not actually deny the fact that many animals have gay tendencies, however, I merely stated that there are a mother and father there for a reason, and more importantly they BOTH contribute to the develpoment of their offspring. Comments such as "My dad has black hair and he is smart. Therefore everyone who has black hair is smart" are irrelevant..Moonlight what was your actual point?

If two people of the same sex were meant to produce and raise offspring then incidentally they would have the ability to so....

Essential Elements... the combination of both masculine and feminine traits and the characteristics and behaviours that are derived from such influence. It is necessary for male and female elements to be learnt but obviously without substantive research it stems down to individual values and perceptions of what you believe to be right. And it so happens that my experience with children who have been brought up by same sex parents reinforces the fact that they lack certain qualities that exist in the mainstream. That is not to say that they are somehow inferior but rather 'appear' different to those who have been 'socialised' in an orthodox environment....

 

[frog12986]

Probably not, but I assume he thinks a lot of gays are animals

That is quite true too...

 

[withoutaface]

I can just see it when frog graduates, he'll wander round clubbing minorities with his baton

 

[frog12986]

There is a difference between having particular opinions and enforcing the opinions in reality... You become a mere hypocrite if you deem something morally or ethically wrong and then go and act in a way that is even more morally unjust...
I may disagree with certain people and their views/actions however that will not in any way shape or form influence my conduct or duties as a police office... That is just a fact of principle...

 

[MoonlightSonata]

I did not actually deny the fact that many animals have gay tendencies, however, I merely stated that there are a mother and father there for a reason, and more importantly they BOTH contribute to the develpoment of their offspring. Comments such as "My dad has black hair and he is smart. Therefore everyone who has black hair is smart" are irrelevant..Moonlight what was your actual point?

The (obvious) point was you made a huge generalisation based on one example.

If two people of the same sex were meant to produce and raise offspring then incidentally they would have the ability to so....

The argument that "what is natural is right" is pretty flawed. Hurricanes, earthquakes and natural disasters surely aren't good, but they are natural phenomenon. I don't think you'd argue that we should try and enforce these occurances.

Essential Elements... the combination of both masculine and feminine traits and the characteristics and behaviours that are derived from such influence. It is necessary for male and female elements to be learnt but obviously without substantive research it stems down to individual values and perceptions of what you believe to be right. And it so happens that my experience with children who have been brought up by same sex parents reinforces the fact that they lack certain qualities that exist in the mainstream. That is not to say that they are somehow inferior but rather 'appear' different to those who have been 'socialised' in an orthodox environment....

Again, no research or evidence to support your suggestions.

(Your single, personal experience or knowledge of children being raised under those circumstances does nothing to show the average result of being raised by gay parents. That is why I made the black haired people are smart remark.)

 

[spell check]

lots of kids are raised by only the father or mother anyway

should we purge them from society?

 

[katie_tully]

On a side note.

My dads first cousin is homosexual. He married a woman, they had a kid...but it turns out that she was a lesbian. So now he (let's call him dave), is with a he, and she is with a she ... and they share joint custody of the kid (Jack).

Now, I don't know why...It could be because of the kids percuilar upbringing...But he is the most socially inept child I have ever met. Apart from the fact he as two daddies who share the same bed, and two mummies who share the same bed...The kid gets picked on violently at school and gets called a faggot himself.

The only time I disagree with lesbians and homosexuals having children is when they are put before a childless heterosexual couple when it comes to IVF or adoption. Couples who naturally should be able to have children, but for some reason or another cannot.

Having overtly camp, homosexual parents who expose their child to their alternative lifestyle may not be as bad as a heterosexual couple who expose their child to domestic violence and drugs... Yet I think in the desire to have children and to play "happy families", sometimes the outcome it will have on the child itself is forgotten. And I'm not saying heterosexual parents can provide a better upbringing than homosexual parents, because there are good and bad examples on both sides.

As for marriage...we all know my view on homosexual marries. Civil unions, sure. But I'm still stuffed as to why you'd want to be joined in a ceremony that is predominantly heterosexual, by a religion that disaproves of your lifestyle.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

As for marriage...we all know my view on homosexual marries. Civil unions, sure. But I'm still stuffed as to why you'd want to be joined in a ceremony that is predominantly heterosexual, by a religion that disaproves of your lifestyle.

There is no religious significance to marriage for a lot of people. I'm not religious but I still want to get married. I don't see how religion comes into it. Marriage is today a legal and social recognition. To a proportion of the population it has relgious importance, so what?