The official IR reform thread! (1 Viewer)

[Generator]

Legal experts say right to strike will be drastically limited

On the sixth day, the Senate's IR work is done

Unconditional support for new bill

Most won't notice any change: Libs

Howard stands firm on IR


Joyce calls for IR changes

Andrews considering IR changes

 

[Generator]

Support for penalty rates grows

No extras, no incentive on big days

Meanwhile, on another front...

Uni locks out union

 

[Generator]

Qld Nats urge Joyce to hold off on IR bill

Concerns won't stop IR changes, Andrews says

Costello expects Nats to pass IR reforms

Later today I'll post the link for a report from today's The World Today. It was kind of refreshing to hear someone from the Nationals (the Queensland Nationals, admittedly) publicly state that though unions have their faults, they and collective bargaining are required given the disparity in bargaining power between many and the employers.

 

[walrusbear]

i must say your dedication to this is very admirable generator

arguing this is like hitting your head against a brick wall though, it seems
even within this board most right wingers here aren't willing to acknowledge the benefits of collective bargaining in any way, shape or form.
seems like a hugely lost battle since the government doesn't appear to be budging

this video has its moments:

http://www.rightsatwork.com.au/static/special_message.wmv

another john clarke and bryan dawe effort

 

[Generator]

i must say your dedication to this is very admirable generator

arguing this is like hitting your head against a brick wall though, it seems
even within this board most right wingers here aren't willing to acknowledge the benefits of collective bargaining in any way, shape or form.
seems like a hugely lost battle since the government doesn't appear to be budging

this video has its moments:

http://www.rightsatwork.com.au/static/special_message.wmv

another john clarke and bryan dawe effort

I think that it's pretty sad, to tell the truth . Still, it gives me something to do.

Much like out in the 'real' world, I wonder whether this thread will still be alive in years to come... I won't be here, but I do hope that someone else keeps it (or one of a similar nature) ticking along.

I'm far from being the first to say this, but this issue in particular deserves constant attention because it's an important issue for all that is being pushed through the parliament with next to no regard for the democratic process or the general populace, with an illustrative example of this being Kevin Andrews' comments regarding the protests and how he considers the debate on the street to be a mere sideshow with the debate in the parliament being the one that is of some importance (hah, a debate on IR in the current parliament!). No matter your economic preferences, surely we must all agree that the way in which this amendment is being dealt with is an affront to all in favour of a constructive, effective and transparent parliamentary process.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

I think it's utterly disgusting. Even if you are staunchly in favour of the IR reforms you have to admit this is a gross abuse of the parliamentary process.

Howard's excuse is "it's been an ongoing debate for the past 20 years."

Well no, it hasn't. It has not been properly debated in parliament. It has not been debated with attention to the specific legislation put forward. It has not been debated by the current representatives of parliament whom the people elected. The people who represent us are not the people who were elected 15 years ago. They are the people in parliament today.

Unfortunately no-one seems to care. I just can't believe the audacity, pushing through such a controversial piece of legislation without proper debate. Regardless of any attitude for or against the reforms it really is astonishing.

 

[Generator]

Hahaha this is fantastic!

Workers' court cases killed as IR changes start to bite

I liked this part in particular -

A run-of-the-mill unfair dismissal claim in NSW will cost thousands of dollars to mount, meaning some claimants will lose large sums already invested in getting their claim to hearing. A standard two-day harsh contract case - under which a successful claimant can win costs - would take a minimum $30,000 to prosecute.

The Government yesterday acknowledged the effect of the legislation in terminating pending claims. A spokesman for the Minister for Workplace Relations, Kevin Andrews, said: "Under WorkChoices these claims will lapse because people will fall under the new system, which has protections for illegal dismissal, including up to $4000 in free legal advice."

"It costs more to mount an illegal dismissal claim than it does one for unfair dismissal, but that's not our concern, even if you have spent however much mounting an unfair dismissal claim under the current system. Here, take this voucher and get up to $4000 in legal advice. Remember, the Coalition is forever looking out for you."

Good luck, Barnaby.

Edit:

Joyce to challenge IR changes

Nationals threaten to oppose IR bill

Hard choice for Nationals

Contractors pay the price in stressful marriages

The researchers said their project began long before the present industrial relations debate took shape and was not intended to be political.

Oh well .

Skills get power in new jobs market

A new IR system and a push towards a greater number of small businesses... Rights in the workplace? What are they?

 

[Generator]

Reforms claim first casualty

Brad Norington
November 25, 2005


UNION protests against John Howard's workplace changes have claimed their first known casualty, with a truck driver sacked for attending last week's rally in Melbourne.

Steve McGee, 47, who was paid $15 an hour to haul cargo containers from Melbourne's docks for RSP Transport, was dismissed via a telephone message left on his home answering machine.

The message from RSP Transport general manager Grant Smith said: "Steve, it's Grant from your work, mate, where you should be today.

"Everyone else has turned up, but you've taken it on yourself again to go to this, whatever it is in the city, rally, whatever you want to call it.

"At the end of the day, you make up your own rules all the time and I've had enough of it, and that's it Steve. So I don't want you back, mate. So don't bother. See you later. Bye."

Mr Smith confirmed he dismissed Mr McGee for going to the rally instead of turning up to work on Tuesday last week.

Mr McGee said he had advised his employer in advance that he had wanted to attend the rally.

 

[townie]

Moonlight, Generator, i applaud u, u are two of the few people who seem to care. this country has become so "me, me, me" as long as I have money. as long as I have a life. as long as I feel economically secure. nobody cares about any1 else.

i will declare hear today wat i have believed for a long time. democracy is dead in australia, it is a sad world we live in hear in Aus. i feel ashamed and disgusted to belong to this country, and should i ever find the money, i shall gladly leave.

this, anti-terror, telstra, all pushed through the parliament without adequate debate. libs keep crapping on about how signifcant the reforms are, yet not enough debate is allocated to the issues.

and every1 is to scared to cross party lines, god forbid people should have different opinions. america may be lead by an idiot, and not much better on civil rights than us, but at least republicans and democrats have their own minds to vote how they please.

 

[walrusbear]

Hahaha this is fantastic!

Workers' court cases killed as IR changes start to bite

I liked this part in particular -



"It costs more to mount an illegal dismissal claim than it does one for unfair dismissal, but that's not our concern, even if you have spent however much mounting an unfair dismissal claim under the current system. Here, take this voucher and get up to $4000 in legal advice. Remember, the Coalition is forever looking out for you."

i read that this morning
unbelievable
this government is contemptible

 

[Collin]

Chances are it's gonna turn Australia into a two-tier workforce. One with skilled workers and professionals able to assert bargaining power to their employers, and the second with low-skilled workers lacking the skills, power nor position to bargain. With quite a few of us here on this board being adequately educated, I'm sure that many will end up in professional jobs, including myself hopefully. But this doesn't deter the fact that this is a rubbish deal for a whole group of Australians.. and for that I think Howard can go eat shit (I think he should go eat shit for a whole range of other issues too.. but that's another story ).

Knowing that the Coalition pretty much won't consider amending any part of the core/fundamental parts of the legislation, I hope Barnaby Joyce puts his money where his mouth is and kills this bill.

 

[Generator]

Beazley promises to overcome IR 'flaws' - Kind of late, but it's still a transcript that many may find interesting (he even talks about Michelle Leslie with some authority, something that some may find to be quite funny).

Workplace changes bad policy, Senate hears

Howard protects Xmas Day holiday

Christmas IR pledge 'just tinkering'

Joyce gets 85,000 IR complaints

Changes 'will undermine family life'

 

[Sarah]

Chances are it's gonna turn Australia into a two-tier workforce. One with skilled workers and professionals able to assert bargaining power to their employers, and the second with low-skilled workers lacking the skills, power nor position to bargain. With quite a few of us here on this board being adequately educated, I'm sure that many will end up in professional jobs, including myself hopefully. But this doesn't deter the fact that this is a rubbish deal for a whole group of Australians.. and for that I think Howard can go eat shit (I think he should go eat shit for a whole range of other issues too.. but that's another story ).

Well i'm no labour market economist but it might (not saying it will for certain) provide incentive for lesser skilled workers to up skill.

On a side note, the union movement should use this opportunity to attract new members provided they can move with the times and start offering relevant services. Not saying they're all trapped in an 80's timewarp but there are some unions which do more for their members than others.

 

[Collin]

Well i'm no labour market economist but it might (not saying it will for certain) provide incentive for lesser skilled workers to up skill.

I think that's a pretty naive way to look at it. Do you realise the time, effort and dedication it will require for many low-skilled workers to advance to say, professional level? If it was so easy, no one would give a shit about examinations like the Higher School Certificate, since it wouldn't matter if your UAI was crap as it would be easy for you to become professional anyway, right? Many low-skilled workers already don't find it feasible to acquire further qualifications such as university degrees, simply because they don't have the means (can't afford it, don't have the time because they have kids to feed or their actual crap paying jobs to go to so they don't have time to do much else etc.).. and after the IR reforms, chances are they'll be even worse off and such a notion of advancing themselves to a more professional status would become even further off.

However, there is validity in your claim, and that's where we talk about high school students prior to HSC. Once they become educated in IR, I'm sure many will strive harder as to avoid the lower-tier outcome, post exams. Just that my whole point comes from the fact that once the HSC is over and they are stuck in a low-skilled profession without an offer or route towards further education or training, they'll tend to be in a bit of shit and might find themselves hard pressed to get out.

 

[Generator]

Studying for a degree isn't the only way to upskill, JKD.

I'm of the opinion that though those on the bottom may now have the desire to upskill, now (well, soon) they may not necessarily have the time. Still, that's all dependent upon the way in which the employers approach the new regime.

 

[Collin]

Studying for a degree isn't the only way to upskill, JKD.

I didn't say it was; 'acquire further qualifications such as university degrees'. Twas' an example.

As for not having enough time, well assuming this gets pushed around Christmas or even early next year.. I would like to think most employers will certainly implement it as soon as possible, so yes, many low-skilled workers probably won't have sufficient time.

 

[Generator]

Sorry, it's just that you example appeared to ignore the other ways in which people may upskill, and it seemed to suggest that to become a professional is the only way to improve one's employment prospects. Sorry again if my interpretation wasn't correct.

 

[Collin]

No worries but yes that wasn't what I was implying. Just that when debating, I prefer not to list down all the possibilities unless I knew them all (incase I would then get attacked for leaving any out). In this case, I couldn't be bothered isolating all the other ways you could improve one's prospects so I chose to ignore them all and just stick with one particular example (in this case, I chose 'becoming a professional') to convey the point. Well, atleast that was the logic I approached that post.

 

[Generator]

Bosses 'can pay when they like'

Joyce gives nod to new workplace laws
IR laws set to pass with key changes
Joyce heeds farmers over unions

Changes go too far, say businesses

Union 'OK' to holiday trade-offs
Gah! I just wish that the fools would stop using AWAs or collective agreements creached under the current system as examples for what the future may hold, because we all know that the reduction in allowable matters will in time create a system that in no way resembles that of today. However, in a world of partisan politics, such flimsy and misleading arguments are to be expected (from all quarters, one may say).

Working on Christmas is no penalty

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Alot of the people who are well-off today are those who took out a trade and put in alot of hard yards, buying up some investment property, maybe starting their own business...
These people are not really what you would call a 'professional class', at least not in Australia.