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The official IR reform thread! (12 Viewers)

spin spin sugar

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Sarah said:
Which industries will be affectd and which industries won't be?
all industries will essentially be effected, in what terms are you most interested in?/...... pay, etc? in terms of wages... the industries likely to get a boost will be skilled workers in demand, like accountants, etc. the industries likely to get cuts will be unskilled roles such as lower-level retail, etc. but ... really... we can't know.

Sarah said:
When they say they want to simplify awrads, how much simpler (for lack of better word) do they want to make them?
i think they would basically want to make them very broad .. in the name of increased 'flexibility' and of course 'efficiency'

Sarah said:
Under the new system, if they're pushing for AWA's what happens when an employee refuses to sign an AWA?
i'm also interested to know this, does anyone know?
 

Not-That-Bright

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When they say they want to simplify awrads, how much simpler (for lack of better word) do they want to make them?
I imagine as spin spin said they'll be very broad, however the good thing about it is that most people will be able to work out their award entitlements and of course if an employee refuses to sign the AWA they'll be fired... why shouldn't they?
 
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Not-That-Bright

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I'm not sure if I understand the question, but essentially AWA's are judged to be fair and if the employee doesn't agree to sign it then he shouldn't get the job.
 

Not-That-Bright

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The OEA ? =/ It's in your link.

approved by the Office of the Employment Advocate and registered by the Australian Industrial Relations Commission
The "no disadvantage test" is applied by the Office of the Employment Advocate and is a check that the agreement must, considered as a whole, roughly be equivalent to the applicable award. However AWA's which fail the test may still be registered if it is in the public interest to do so.
 
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Sarah

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spin spin sugar said:
all industries will essentially be effected, in what terms are you most interested in?/...... pay, etc? in terms of wages... the industries likely to get a boost will be skilled workers in demand, like accountants, etc. the industries likely to get cuts will be unskilled roles such as lower-level retail, etc. but ... really... we can't know.


i think they would basically want to make them very broad .. in the name of increased 'flexibility' and of course 'efficiency'
Ok, well how would it affect ur average sales assistant working at target or coles? Would the changes be of significant impact or will the reforms have a minor impact? That's just an example.

Like what we're saying now is speculation there's not enough info out there on the impact of changes

With award simplification, i'm sure there are already some industries where the current award is simple. Additonally, doesn't the use of casual workers ensure flexibility in the workforce? For example, you only have to look at retail as an example where if ur employed on a casual basis you don't get sick leave, annual leave other entitlements full time and part time workers receive.

Having said that, i do realise that each industry is unique and has their own needs so the above example may not be consistent in other industries
 

spin spin sugar

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my guess is that the average sales person, such as those working at coles, will end up in a similar position to those in the same jobs in america... on a very low rate. but i don't think that will happen overnight, and as i said, thats just a guess... based on the outcome of deregulation of IR in other nations.

i agree with you that the current award system is probably simple enough. you're right about the casual employment thing too, and that is why we have one of the most casualised workforces in the world..... but for instance, in the case of casual retail assistants, i'm fairly sure there are SOME entitlements provided you work at the same place doing similar shifts for over 6 months. that will probably be removed.
 

Sarah

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Asquithian said:
What makes you think that the employer would be fair when talking about award entitlements when they can simply sack the employee when they dont agree and don't sign the AWA.
I thought the employer would still need to provide a reasonable response as to why he/she would fire the employee?

As you mentioned in a previous post, an employer could sack someone due to marital status, however, wouldn't anti-discrimmination laws still apply? Having said that, an employer could make up some excuse e.g wasn't meeting key performance indicators and could sack a worker with sufficient warning regardng 'problems' with their work performance.

Asquithian said:
Who judges whether an AWA is fair?
As NTB said, the OEA does. However, under the current system, when an employer offers an employee an AWA, the employee has 14 days to look over it and decide whether to accept it. I'm assuming (but could be wrong), that during the 14 day period, the employee can contact their union to go over the AWA and see whether there are any clauses which the employee doesn't agree with.

I'm not sure if the process would change when reforms are brought in
 

Sarah

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Asquithian said:
These are unrelated reforms to the sex discrimination act and the unfair dismissal laws.

Employers will be able to sack on the basis of marital status.





When and where on gods green earth did the Government's industrial relations reform package ever consider or mention that unions play an important part in negotiation?!
Haha, ok as i said i could be wrong. But currently how AWA's work, an employee is given a 14 day period in which he/she can decide whether to sign or not. I'm assuming that the employee would turn to the union to see whether or not the AWA on offer is reasonable. Or an employee couldn't be bothered, they could just sign the dotted line.

IR reforms not only impact on Unions but they'll also impact on employer organisations as well. The relevancy of the two groups after reforms is not known. Quite ironic considering the role they currently play in standing up for employers.
 

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NTB, as far as I know, the no disadvantage test will no longer apply, only some sort of supposed safety net that is measured against the 4 'basic' entitlements (or the low-pay wage). The AWA will be 'approved' when it is lodged, too, rather than it being assessed before approval is eventully given. As for fairness, I cannot see the logic in thinking that a take it or leave approach is fair (not that fairness is an issue, of course).
 

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Sarah said:
Ok, well how would it affect ur average sales assistant working at target or coles? Would the changes be of significant impact or will the reforms have a minor impact? That's just an example.

Like what we're saying now is speculation there's not enough info out there on the impact of changes

With award simplification, i'm sure there are already some industries where the current award is simple. Additonally, doesn't the use of casual workers ensure flexibility in the workforce? For example, you only have to look at retail as an example where if ur employed on a casual basis you don't get sick leave, annual leave other entitlements full time and part time workers receive.

Having said that, i do realise that each industry is unique and has their own needs so the above example may not be consistent in other industries
i dunno how it would effect people in that area, there are two ways it can go, they need 2 keep workers happy and smiling for good customer services, however, workers are a dime-a-dozen, on the other hand, i think for instance, Woolworths, is like, 80% union, which means they'd have a hard time reducing penalty rates and such
 

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http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Unions-launch-TV-ad-campaign-on-IR/2005/06/19/1119119712183.html

Unions launch $8m ad campaign
June 19, 2005 - 11:56AM


The ACTU today launched an $8 million radio and television advertising campaign to hit back at the Federal Government's proposed changes to industrial relations laws.

ACTU president Sharan Burrow said the eight-week campaign, titled 'Your rights at work: worth fighting for', is the most expensive ever undertaken by the union body.

Ms Burrow said decisive action was needed by working Australians who "are about to face a government who is about to tear up 100 years of workplace rights"...
Here's to hoping that the issue comes to the fore (be most in favour or not, at least it will be out there).
 

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http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,15679784%5E601,00.html

Public servants in revolt over IR
Brad Norington and Michael Bachelard
June 21, 2005


THE man in charge of John Howard's workplace reform agenda is facing a revolt from his own department, with staff claiming they were coerced into signing non-union individual employment contracts.

The charge came on the same day Workplace Relations Minister Kevin Andrews demanded the ACTU remove television advertisements from air for wrongly claiming that workers could be forced into signing individual contracts under proposed new Howard government laws.

Mr Andrews yesterday dismissed a union television advertisement that rails against individual contracts as "deceptive" and "misleading", saying that employers who coerced their staff to sign Australian Workplace Agreements faced a penalty of $33,000.

It is the same charge now being levelled by some staff in the minister's own department.

The new advertisement depicts a casual employee who is offered a permanent job only if he signs an AWA.

For the past nine months, Mr Andrews's department has been locked in a battle with half its 3000 staff, who are holding out against the Government's preferred course that they sign AWAs.

In Mr Andrews's Department of Employment and Workplace Relations it is official policy that all new staff are only employed on AWAs.

But the department recently told 15 employees in Melbourne that if they wanted to continue working, they would need to sign AWAs.

The staff were even provided with forms that already had the yes box ticked to the question: "I acknowledge my commitment to sign an Australian Workplace Agreement." Division secretary for the Community and Public Sector Union Lisa Newman said the department withdrew the forms only after her union obtained legal advice that the offer constituted duress.

Department staff on fixed-term contracts were also told they would have to sign AWAs if they wanted permanent positions. This condition was also later withdrawn.

Mr Andrews's department is now offering half of its workforce who are refusing to sign AWAs an annual 3.9 per cent pay rise over three years, plus a possible extra 3 per cent bonus based on performance.

Trade-offs so far rejected by staff include reductions to redundancy entitlements, removal of a remote location allowance and watering down of grievances procedures.

So unhappy are workers from the department's Sydney office that they went on strike for two hours on Friday. Staff in Melbourne and Canberra are considering similar action.

Mr Andrews yesterday declined to comment on the dispute. A spokesman said Mr Andrews did not interfere in negotiations conducted by department management.

The head of the department's legal and policy branch, Jeremy O'Sullivan, said the policy on AWAs was "never misapplied".

He said AWA forms wrongly issued were withdrawn and staff were given an option to stick with a collective enterprise agreement. Mr O'Sullivan said all new employees would be offered only AWAs, but staff whose fixed-term contracts were renewed would be treated as continuing employees.

ACTU secretary Greg Combet accused Mr Andrews of using "Stalinist tactics" against departmental employees.

"We could have used an employee from Mr Andrews's own department in the TV ads to illustrate workers being coerced to sign AWAs. He's a hypocrite," Mr Combet said.
So much for (new) employees being free to decide whether they sign an AWA or not. At least we can always count on the Coalition government to set a great example.

---

Edit: Academics slam government's workplace reforms.
Academics argue against proposed changes to IR.

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Edit: The following report was released today - Inquiry into Unfair Dismissal Policy in the Small Business Sector (pdf 507kb)

---

Edit: PM flags IR as number one priority when Parliament resumes.
 
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White Rabbit

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In regards to nurses - we're loosing penalty rates - which is an absolutle joke when looking at those who work night shift. I know mums who deliberatly take night shift as it allows them to work 3 nights on 4 off due to the hours (30 Hours a week) and the penalty rates - which working a 9pm - 7am shift are much higher than day and arvo shift - and allows a similar income to 5 days 7 am - 4pm shift.

Moreover, any kind of allowances we recive are gone, all incentives are gone from the industry. We can forget any further wage rises and see the power of the NSW Nurses Federation diminish.

Nurses already have shit conditions and worse pay, and it looks to get worse. If the government thinks theres a shortage of nurses now, wait until the effects of these reforms are realised in the industry.
 

spin spin sugar

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Generator said:

Tough times ahead as proposed workplace reforms miss the boat
.

'The gap between high- and low-income workers is about to widen, write Bradon Ellem and Russell Lansbury.'

Note: Associate Professor Bradon Ellem and Professor Russell Lansbury are labour market academics at the University of Sydney.
dont stop the updates!! i had my IR exam today and seriously, this whole thread was sooo useful genny, i owe you big time.

<3 bradon ellem
 

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spin spin sugar said:
dont stop the updates!! i had my IR exam today and seriously, this whole thread was sooo useful genny, i owe you big time.

<3 bradon ellem
It's all so interesting, and I'm starting to regret not transferring to an Economic and Social Sciences degree back when I had the chance, but that's life.

Happy to have been of some assitance :).
 

spin spin sugar

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yeah, industrial relations is my favourite subject. i chose it purely as credit points filler, and its ended up being something i actually want to pursue after uni. i love it so much. its such a cool time to be observing it all in action as well.
 

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spin spin sugar said:
yeah, industrial relations is my favourite subject. i chose it purely as credit points filler, and its ended up being something i actually want to pursue after uni. i love it so much. its such a cool time to be observing it all in action as well.
hey spin spin,

in your IR course, did your lecturers and tutors talk much about the proposed reforms?
 

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