Thanks for the compliment - much nicer to try discussing something with someone who doesn't start namecalling (this is a not-so-subtle hint to all and sundry in the later stages of this thread!)
I agree that most of my points end up going towards an argument that operates along the lines of "Why pay for something not directly affecting me", which probably means I should have taken a bit more care writing it. My intention was something more or less like "Why pay so much when the benefits currently being supplied are so little compared to what they could be if efficiently administered".
I'm not saying everything provided by the student associations at various universities are useless - clearly this is not true, and some services are extremely admirable. Moreover, I gather from some of the other posts that some services which at UNSW (my uni) are provided by the university (e.g. Counselling services) are provided by student associations at other universities, in which case the discussion becomes somewhat murkier.
I just feel that student unions are not the most effective way of providing these services - I think it would be better for the university to hire appropriate managers to run them, and perhaps take on students at a much lower level. My main quibble is that the services being provided are not being provided in the most effective manner.
In regards to subsidised food - that's certainly not an issue at UNSW (I can guarantee that the places near the campus provide cheaper food, and as I said in my earlier post, I think the uni could make more money by leasing the facilities out to such franchises, provided they retained one or two spots for 'healthy food' type options - these operations then act as a safeguard in case I'm wrong about the prices as well, since they can be subsidised and provide more competitive alternatives in the event of price hikes). I can't necessarily speak for other universities, though.
I consider your argument that the students have no say in the goings-on within the university to be amongst the more compelling ones against VSU - the students generally have representatives on major university decision-making bodies (e.g. university councils, but don't have the final say on any given body, so are vulnerable to sudden changes from those bodies and student associations provide the most effective lobbying group.
As I said, there are aspects of VSU in its current form that I have concerns about, and what I truly support would probably be a modified form of USU that works by proscribing what student unions can spend money on (hint: anything that does not provide on-campus direct benefits to students gets shot). I still believe it's better than the current system.
A couple of years ago, I would have agreed with you. Having been through most of my uni life now, I have become extremely disillusioned with the processes that are in place (one could argue it's the people, not the system, that I have an issue with, but quite frankly, I can't see a way to fix the system without dismantling it), which is the major cause behind my changed heart.
The system is inefficient, and changes won't occur unless it comes under genuine threat.
Oh, and I agree with you on the Government minister's comments. I tend to agree with those who suspect that the current VSU agenda is not driven by any sort of concern for students but by ideological beliefs and vendettas from decades ago when current Ministers were aspiring student politicians who discovered that the Left had control of student politics.
Whatever the motives though, it can only improve what exists now, in my view.
