Update me on VSU (1 Viewer)

[j_hakka_v2]

The most major source of Union-subsidised social cohesions would be clubs and societies, and these take up less than 3% of the Union's overall budget, meaning that they, and the social cohesion they provide, would survive under a user pays system.

Note also that the implementation of a verbose vocabulary is only impressive when you spell the words correctly.

Other than congratulating him for mediocre vocabulary, your point is hidden in a mist of nothingness.

 

[erawamai]

The most major source of Union-subsidised social cohesions would be clubs and societies, and these take up less than 3% of the Union's overall budget, meaning that they, and the social cohesion they provide, would survive under a user pays system.

Note also that the implementation of a verbose vocabulary is only impressive when you spell the words correctly.

Sorry about the Spelling.

You missed the point.

Perhaps you can apply your economic ideology to everything rather than selectively within the confines of university.

 

[walrusbear]

The most major source of Union-subsidised social cohesions would be clubs and societies, and these take up less than 3% of the Union's overall budget, meaning that they, and the social cohesion they provide, would survive under a user pays system.

you can't quantify 'social cohesion'
i don't know how sport, welfare, food vendors etc. can't be seen as a form of social cohesion
in fact, the union itself is social cohesion
you can't reduce 'social cohesion' to a handful of clubs

 

[j_hakka_v2]

i don't know how sport, welfare, food vendors etc. can't be seen as a form of social cohesion
in fact, the union itself is social cohesion
you can't reduce 'social cohesion' to a handful of clubs

Why are you polluting this thread with such rubbish? Social cohesion......what codswallop.

 

[withoutaface]

I do realise that a completely free market is as much a pipedream as socialism, however there are situations where the user pays ideology is applicable and it is my belief that student unionism is one of them.

 

[Sarah]

Again, if the link isn't clear then you are both delusional and now, rather imbecillic. Photocopying is obviously more essential to the academic progression of students than exclusive sports teams. Further, just because something has been historically linked to a university does not mean that current students should have to continue to subsidise it for sentimental value. How absurd.

j_hakka_v2 the fact that you've resorted to calling me delusional, imbecilic and suggested that ideas i have are banal and absurd, does little to convince me of your views.

Ok from what you've said, i guess you think sport, clubs and societies are not essential. All i've said is that it can questionable what is essential and what isn't particularly becuase there are places outside university that deliver the same services.

If you can borrow a book from the library or download a journal articular and have the option of printing it at uni (which is subsidised) or outside uni at a cheaper rate, well what would be the argument against printing it outside the uni?

Btw, you still haven't answered my question on whether you bring your lunch to school or buy it at school

 

[walrusbear]

Why are you polluting this thread with such rubbish? Social cohesion......what codswallop.

why is it rubbish?
you might also note that it was in reponse to wof word's

 

[j_hakka_v2]

Btw, you still haven't answered my question on whether you bring your lunch to school or buy it at school

If the funding of food was made a compulsory fee, hardly anyone would argue with that (including myself) because some people may want the convenience of uni subsidised food sometimes and their own food at other times which is perfectly reasonable.

Whether you bring your food from home or buy it at uni is really irrelevant, for in the end, the provision of uni-subsidised food would be far more popular than the provision of sporting teams and facilities; if a choice were to arise.

 

[Sarah]

If the funding of food was made a compulsory fee, hardly anyone would argue with that (including myself) because some people may want the convenience of uni subsidised food sometimes and their own food at other times which is perfectly reasonable.

Whether you bring your food from home or buy it at uni is really irrelevant, for in the end, the provision of uni-subsidised food would be far more popular than the provision of sporting teams and facilities; if a choice were to arise.

Alright, i've read what you said and I don't think it's irrelevant (in the point i've been trying to make) whether you bring food from home or not. It show's there are other sources for obtaining these goods/services that exist and that aren't subsidised from fees paid.

And yeh i agree in that subsidising food would be more popular than subsidising sport. It may seem trivial harping on about food, photocopying, sports, clubs and societies but i'm trying to see what's considered essential and what isn't. Like you said in an earlier post, if you want to join a sports team, you can do it outside uni. Likewise, services that some ppl consider essential can also be obtained outside uni at similar rates.

 

[erawamai]

I do realise that a completely free market is as much a pipedream as socialism, however there are situations where the user pays ideology is applicable and it is my belief that student unionism is one of them.

Fundementalist user pays often doesn't work when social capital is invovled. Simply because people refuse to pay for other peoples social enjoyment unless they share the same social values as that other person. But in that case it becomes self interest.

The point is total user pays generally never works - ever - anywhere. Can you give us an example where total user pays has been a complete sucess? Even the biggest supporters of user pays/neo classical economics in the Liberal government still support protection on Australian agriculture and Consumer protection laws.

In terms of theory your 'pipedream' = theory of the 2nd best. Essentially fudementalist is first best and utopian.

 

[Generator]

If anyone with some sort of power happens to be reading this, why was j_hakka_v2 banned?

 

[Rafy]

Simply because people refuse to pay for other peoples social enjoyment.

And whats wrong with that? If i wish to enjoy myself, i should pay for it


Pity j_hakka got banned, he was contributing quite nicely to this argument.

 

[erawamai]

And whats wrong with that? If i wish to enjoy myself, i should pay for it.

How does fundementalist user pays account for trust - relationships - friendship? Certainly those elements do not exist if you feel you should only pay for your enjoyment only.

Social capital that is essential to the efficient functioning of a market? How does a user pay for that? OR is it perhaps that user pays and the market leaves out some of the things that are not amenable to the market that we all take for granted.

I'm not sure how you can put trust - love - relationships - understanding - loyalty into a user pays paradigm.

 

[Rafy]

We are straying a bit off the point. We are talking about a univrersity here, not soceity in general. The principles that operate in the wider context may not be relevant to the scale we are debating. As said, many of the social elements etc exist and can be obtained OUTSIDE of uni. Just beacuse they may be "allegedly" eliminated by user pays systems, dosent mean they can not be obtained elsewhere

 

[erawamai]

We are straying a bit off th epoint. We are talking about a univrersity here, no soceity in general. The principles that operate in the wider context may not be relevant to the scale we are debating. As said, many of the social elements etc exist and can be obtained OUTSIDE of uni.

Are you suggesting social capital is not something that should be a part of university?

Parts of social capital are essential to the operation of the markets. Trust, loyalty, friendship and understanding are all needed.

Total user pays will leave those things floundering. Some might argue that a surplus of social capital in uni makes up for the lack of it in the real world where social capital is nowhere to be seen.

 

[MoonlightSonata]

If anyone with some sort of power happens to be reading this, why was j_hakka_v2 banned?

It is true that his name was mimicking another's but I think it was more to do with him causing havoc in the EE2 forum. (That and he is a troll.)

tad shame as we have an interesting argument going

 

[Sarah]

It is true that his name was mimicking another's but I think it was more to do with him causing havoc in the EE2 forum. (That and he is a troll.)

tad shame as we have an interesting argument going

... which seems to have died down .

 

[withoutaface]

Are you suggesting social capital is not something that should be a part of university?

Parts of social capital are essential to the operation of the markets. Trust, loyalty, friendship and understanding are all needed.

Total user pays will leave those things floundering. Some might argue that a surplus of social capital in uni makes up for the lack of it in the real world where social capital is nowhere to be seen.

Trust and loyalty do not exist when people begrudge the campus community for stealing their money.

 

[erawamai]

Trust and loyalty do not exist when people begrudge the campus community for stealing their money.

Hence because some people feel the need to go that far we should throw out all the good social capital. The baby with the bathwater etc.

 

[leetom]

The most major source of Union-subsidised social cohesions would be clubs and societies, and these take up less than 3% of the Union's overall budget, meaning that they, and the social cohesion they provide, would survive under a user pays system.

But then all of the unionised students would become bitter about funding events that de-unionised students make active use of.

At least I know I would. Paying my union fees because I feel ideologically inclined to do so, only to have the we-love-VSU Young Libs come and enjoy themselves at a Union-funded event

Empathise with me.