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USyd Students - the VSU Era - What will you do? (1 Viewer)

As a student of the University of Sydney, in 2007 will you…

  • Continue to support the student organisations in full (pay all fees)

    Votes: 12 20.3%
  • Continue to support the student organisations in part (pay some of the fees)

    Votes: 25 42.4%
  • Not support any of the student organisations.

    Votes: 22 37.3%

  • Total voters
    59
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Libbster

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quah, please shut the fuck up. Stop spouting the same old "terrorist organisation" line, its is getting fucking annoying. i note that you are a fucking chinese communist, probably one of the stupid fuckers who believes tiananmen square never happened. Guess what, nobody fucking cares if falun gong is a terrorist organisation anyway, as I highly doubt that they will come into a lecture and blow themselves up.

at the same time, you want a chinese space, yet call the aboriginals dirty? I detect hypocrisy and um hello, u are on their land you stupid fuck.
 
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Collin

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Phanatical said:
There is a difference between taxes and mandatory union fees however - taxes are spent to benefit the entire community (theoretically). While mandatory union fees are intended to fulfill the same purpose within the university community, in practice it does not (moreso than taxes), to the extent that students would be better off without them. I don't think anybody here, except the most hardcore Liberal, could argue that this is also true of our taxation system.

Another key difference is the fact that (grossly simplified) taxes are charged according to how much you earn, and how much you spend. The Union/SRC/Sport fee is/was the same for every student, whether or not a student lives on campus and can make full use of those facilities, or a student lives an hour and a half away from campus and spends more time travelling to uni than they do At uni.

Also, consider that the mandatory fee was, until this year, an undeferable fee of up to $600 per student. For many students, this represents easily two weeks earnings. In extreme cases students can choose to eat, or to pay Union fees. I would argue that there are VERY few students who will recoup their Union fees through Union/SRC/Sport activities - and that these VERY few students are those who are in a secure enough financial position to be living on campus anyway.

In regards to the individual issues you raised:

Legal/Financial services: these represent an incredibly miniscule amount of the SRC budget because many of these services are provided pro bono.

Clubs and Societies: Many C&Ses have been forced to close because they are unable to secure Union funding - and have moved to become financially independent from the Union. As a former Society Vice-President, my final duty was to wrap up SECS because the Union owed us over $3000 in funding that was promised to us, but we never received (and ultimately cost our former President $1000, me $400 and our Secretary $400 covering debts - money which we'll probably never see again).

SRC Publications: Honi Soit is a shit rag, but it also comes at a minimal cost to the student body as somebody has to pay for all those advertisements.

Women's Space/Queer Space: Where's the "Men's Space"? Where's the "Chinese Space"? Where's the "Goth's Space"? Women's Space and Queer Space only exist for feminists and "Queer" activists. One of my gay classmates once asked me to fight the SRC on this issue - because he felt the term "Queer" to be derogatory, and that "Queer Activism" aims to be divisive, rather than inclusive in society.

Rights of Minorities: If, by "rights of minorities", you mean terrorist organisations and the politically advantageous ethnic group of the day, then sure. If you mean real discrimination against those of ethnic minorities, then (being of the one ethnic minority that faces greater discrimination in Australian society than any other, with the possible exception of the dirty, dirty Abos) I can promise you that I could find better advocacy from the maggots living in a hippie's hair.

Politics: Why the fuck should I pay for protests and politics, when the student union/SRC can't even provide basic services to my campus? About the only meaningful thing my campus has been able to get out of our Union in the last four years is food poisoning. It's all well and good to say that hippie politics is wonderful. But if it's at the expense of students and the services we are forced to pay for (and it is), then it's not acceptable.
Agreed.
 

withoutaface

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Libbster said:
quah, please shut the fuck up. Stop spouting the same old "terrorist organisation" line, its is getting fucking annoying. i note that you are a fucking chinese communist, probably one of the stupid fuckers who believes tiananmen square never happened. Guess what, nobody fucking cares if falun gong is a terrorist organisation anyway, as I highly doubt that they will come into a lecture and blow themselves up.

at the same time, you want a chinese space, yet call the aboriginals dirty? I detect hypocrisy and um hello, u are on their land you stupid fuck.
Before you reject the terrorist organisation concept I'd remind you that the Australian Union of Students gave funds to the PLO.
 

ElGronko

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Fuck off it's your land.


If I saw you on my property I'd shoot you.
 
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Libbster

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withoutaface said:
Before you reject the terrorist organisation concept I'd remind you that the Australian Union of Students gave funds to the PLO.
:eek: lol what dickheads, but i was referring specifically to falun gong as that is what he always brings up as a terrorist organisation.
 

Phanatical

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That's because Falun Gong is the terrorist organisation who was responsible for the deaths of some of my family.
 

nwatts

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Phanatical said:
That's because Falun Gong is the terrorist organisation who was responsible for the deaths of some of my family.
btw are you the one with the small penis?
 

ujuphleg

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Andrew's genitalia is not particularly relevant to this thread, neither is Falun Gong, the PLO or your opinion of Aboriginal people to a lesser extent (ie, its still sort of relevant because people are making arguments about student organisations alleged support of these organisations, but the merits/demerits/terrorist nature of the organisations is not so relevant)

Please stay on topic about VSU and specifically, your opinion on whether you will continue to support student organisations in the 2007 academic year.
 

veridis

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Phanatical said:
There is a difference between taxes and mandatory union fees however - taxes are spent to benefit the entire community (theoretically). While mandatory union fees are intended to fulfill the same purpose within the university community, in practice it does not (moreso than taxes), to the extent that students would be better off without them. I don't think anybody here, except the most hardcore Liberal, could argue that this is also true of our taxation system.

Another key difference is the fact that (grossly simplified) taxes are charged according to how much you earn, and how much you spend. The Union/SRC/Sport fee is/was the same for every student, whether or not a student lives on campus and can make full use of those facilities, or a student lives an hour and a half away from campus and spends more time travelling to uni than they do At uni.

Also, consider that the mandatory fee was, until this year, an undeferable fee of up to $600 per student. For many students, this represents easily two weeks earnings. In extreme cases students can choose to eat, or to pay Union fees. I would argue that there are VERY few students who will recoup their Union fees through Union/SRC/Sport activities - and that these VERY few students are those who are in a secure enough financial position to be living on campus anyway.

In regards to the individual issues you raised:

Legal/Financial services: these represent an incredibly miniscule amount of the SRC budget because many of these services are provided pro bono.

Clubs and Societies: Many C&Ses have been forced to close because they are unable to secure Union funding - and have moved to become financially independent from the Union. As a former Society Vice-President, my final duty was to wrap up SECS because the Union owed us over $3000 in funding that was promised to us, but we never received (and ultimately cost our former President $1000, me $400 and our Secretary $400 covering debts - money which we'll probably never see again).

SRC Publications: Honi Soit is a shit rag, but it also comes at a minimal cost to the student body as somebody has to pay for all those advertisements.

Women's Space/Queer Space: Where's the "Men's Space"? Where's the "Chinese Space"? Where's the "Goth's Space"? Women's Space and Queer Space only exist for feminists and "Queer" activists. One of my gay classmates once asked me to fight the SRC on this issue - because he felt the term "Queer" to be derogatory, and that "Queer Activism" aims to be divisive, rather than inclusive in society.

Rights of Minorities: If, by "rights of minorities", you mean terrorist organisations and the politically advantageous ethnic group of the day, then sure. If you mean real discrimination against those of ethnic minorities, then (being of the one ethnic minority that faces greater discrimination in Australian society than any other, with the possible exception of the dirty, dirty Abos) I can promise you that I could find better advocacy from the maggots living in a hippie's hair.

Politics: Why the fuck should I pay for protests and politics, when the student union/SRC can't even provide basic services to my campus? About the only meaningful thing my campus has been able to get out of our Union in the last four years is food poisoning. It's all well and good to say that hippie politics is wonderful. But if it's at the expense of students and the services we are forced to pay for (and it is), then it's not acceptable.
just a few points
1 - yep the people who cant afford to eat are going to be the ones to benifit from user pays
2 - your argument comparing taxes and fees is based on purely quantitative differences that you have made a value judgement on. there is no essential qualitiative difference between taxes and fees
2b - actualy the colleges do pay significant fees to the uni, some of which are allocated to SRC initiatives.
3 - C&S, you seem to call for more C&S funding but less SRC funding. sorry but i dont follow the logic there. C&S get less funding as a direct result of cuts to Union funding, using this drop in C&S funding to further cut union funding seems illogical
4 - legal services are provided pro bono but i'd like to see a pro bono financial service. these are also the services most needed by the "starving, cant eat cause of fees" student you claim to be defending
5 - politics, you only complain cause you lost. i doubt you'd have the same issues with representative democaracy if you won

and i actualy do agree with you on the womens/queer space but you give it way too much emphasis. according to you legal/financial services "represent an incredibly miniscule amount of the SRC budget", comapre this to womens/queer and by your logic its not even worth talking about
 

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SHould people who don't pay their union fees be allowed to use union services?
 

Phanatical

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veridis said:
just a few points
1 - yep the people who cant afford to eat are going to be the ones to benifit from user pays
2 - your argument comparing taxes and fees is based on purely quantitative differences that you have made a value judgement on. there is no essential qualitiative difference between taxes and fees
2b - actualy the colleges do pay significant fees to the uni, some of which are allocated to SRC initiatives.
3 - C&S, you seem to call for more C&S funding but less SRC funding. sorry but i dont follow the logic there. C&S get less funding as a direct result of cuts to Union funding, using this drop in C&S funding to further cut union funding seems illogical
4 - legal services are provided pro bono but i'd like to see a pro bono financial service. these are also the services most needed by the "starving, cant eat cause of fees" student you claim to be defending
5 - politics, you only complain cause you lost. i doubt you'd have the same issues with representative democaracy if you won

and i actualy do agree with you on the womens/queer space but you give it way too much emphasis. according to you legal/financial services "represent an incredibly miniscule amount of the SRC budget", comapre this to womens/queer and by your logic its not even worth talking about
Besides political activist hippies (most of which, by the way, come from much better financial backgrounds than most students), NO student benefits from the SRC/Union/Sport to the extent that they get better value for money than if they had the discretion to spend it in whichever manner they choose.

It is students who live on campus (hippies in communes, and college kids alike) who have the Opportunity to make use of the services and facilities of the Union/SRC/Sport - and it is students who can't afford to live on campus who subsidise those who can.

I am stating that under USU, Clubs and Societies don't receive funding anyway - so under VSU it won't make a fracking difference.

If the SRC really cared about students, it would have used its compulsory budget to run cooking classes, financial planning seminars and other such services for students to learn how to make the most of what they have. It's incredibly easy to prepare a five course meal for less than $10 a person, yet there are students on campus who still suffer from scurvy. At least by saving up to $600, they can buy some decent food.

SRC campaigns are won by the candidates with the most posters, free t-shirts and blatant lies. Unlike Fangus and Faction, Sonia and Voice didn't resort to lying and buying votes because if that's what it takes to win the Presidency and the SRC, then we don't want it.
 

Phanatical

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ujuphleg said:
Falun Gong
If my SRC fees are supporting evil cults, then I don't want to support the SRC.

Here's a reminder about what Falun Gong has done:

Before:


After:
 

veridis

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Phanatical said:
Besides political activist hippies (most of which, by the way, come from much better financial backgrounds than most students), NO student benefits from the SRC/Union/Sport to the extent that they get better value for money than if they had the discretion to spend it in whichever manner they choose.
*looks at hecs increases proposed by gov in last 10 years and how much the src has reduced them buy*
simple maths is saying value for money

Phanatical said:
It is students who live on campus (hippies in communes, and college kids alike) who have the Opportunity to make use of the services and facilities of the Union/SRC/Sport - and it is students who can't afford to live on campus who subsidise those who can.
same point can be made of taxes. yes some people gain more but given that everyone is still gaining thats an argumetn for reform(which i've always been a supporter of) not an argument for abolishing it

Phanatical said:
I am stating that under USU, Clubs and Societies don't receive funding anyway - so under VSU it won't make a fracking difference.
not sure about your beef with clubs is. the one's i'm involved in run smooth as and have only had problems with funding once but that was an admin error and we were partialy to blame.

Phanatical said:
If the SRC really cared about students, it would have used its compulsory budget to run cooking classes, financial planning seminars and other such services for students to learn how to make the most of what they have. It's incredibly easy to prepare a five course meal for less than $10 a person, yet there are students on campus who still suffer from scurvy. At least by saving up to $600, they can buy some decent food.
need for classes implies lack of knowledge, if people dont know how to cook the 600 bucks isnt going to help them much. by your own admission its cheap as to avoid scurvy and its knowledge not money holding people back.

Phanatical said:
SRC campaigns are won by the candidates with the most posters, free t-shirts and blatant lies. Unlike Fangus and Faction, Sonia and Voice didn't resort to lying and buying votes because if that's what it takes to win the Presidency and the SRC, then we don't want it.
sonia didnt lie? oh cmon. action are no saints but unless you can admit that everyone was pretty much on the same level of shitness you're always going to come across crazily biased
 

veridis

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talking about falun gong isnt going to get you anywhere man. i will admit i know jack about it and it probably isnt derserving of SRC funds but the terrorist line is a bit extreme in most peoples eyes, esp when the media is mostly sympathetic
also with the pics what are they. your wording makes it sound like the woman was a victim against her will but the burns make me think of the self immolation a few years back. bit of clarification would be useful. just using before/after pics you could imply that every religion, government, many multinationals and quite a few sports are terrorist organisations.
 
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