Virginia Tech Shootings (Merged) (2 Viewers)

[xXeMoxXxCoRexX]

Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

If: They're trying to harm people
When: They try to harm other people
How: Shoot them.

:/

Why should things have to be necessary for them to be legal?

 

[jb_nc]

Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

You can't distinguish the difference between an ordinary citizen and a police officer and their respective roles in society?

In any case I used necessity in the context of everyone in society. It is not necessary for everyone in society to carry guns.

So I shouldn't have the right to protect myself as a citizen? Should I not be allowed to own a weapon kept in my home or CCW?

Why is it not necessary? It is not necessary for everyone to be able to protect themselves?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Finland#Guns
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Finland#Related_objects

There you go, refutes your idea that higher gun ownership among the population equal higher gun crime rates.

Probably lower. Who knows? the ensuring gun battle could have claimed more lives? He may have only killed a few. He may have killed more. He could use the dead persons weapons to kill more.

But I don't think it would have been as clean as some suggest. It certainly wouldn't have stopped this person from going on a rampage considering the prospect of death didn't him.

It doesn't matter. As long as less people died (other than the gunman) that is what counts. The gunman was also well armed with two pistols and enough ammunition for thirty rounds.

You do have to be a professional to know if, when and how you should go about shooting someone armed, especially when other people are around.

Here is a mega professional opinion from me: if someone has a gun shooting innocent people, use your gun to kill them. Don't let anyone else get in the way of your gun.

 

[dagwoman]

Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

If: there is no chance of shooting anyone else, them shooting you back, them grabbing someone else to put in their way
When: you won't be shot back, there aren't people near them
How: will you have time? will you be able to stay safe?
etc etc etc etc

 

[wheredanton]

Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Finland#Related_objects
There you go, refutes your idea that higher gun ownership among the population equal higher gun crime rates.

My idea? Where I never said that.

 

[blahmeh]

Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

Look the point is at the end of the day it killed 33 PEOPLE

America should have taken notice of this issue after the columbine massacre, and before it escalated.

We cant necessarily blame the Amer. gov. for the actions of spasticated people however the gov could of the necessary precautions so that at least when something like this happens, the gov could say we did our bit.

Hmph...and bush is worrying about terrorism in iraq overseas...when they have problems in their own country. :mad1: :mad1: :mad1: :mad1: :mad1: :mad1: :mad1: :mad1: :mad1: :mad1: :mad1: :mad1: :mad1: :mad1: :mad1: :mad1: :mad1: :mad1:

 

[jb_nc]

Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

If: there is no chance of shooting anyone else, them shooting you back, them grabbing someone else to put in their way
When: you won't be shot back, there aren't people near them
How: will you have time? will you be able to stay safe?
etc etc etc etc

would you really think about that crap when your life very well could be about to end? fight or flight would kick in and you would be off. I'd rather a chance to defend myself (or others doing the same).

Look the point is at the end of the day it killed 33 PEOPLE

America should have taken notice of this issue after the columbine massacre, and before it escalated.

We cant necessarily blame the Amer. gov. for the actions of spasticated people however the gov could of the necessary precautions so that at least when something like this happens, the gov could say we did our bit.

Hmph...and bush is worrying about terrorism in iraq overseas...when they have problems in their own country. :mad1: :mad1: :mad1: :mad1: :mad1: :mad1: :mad1: :mad1: :mad1: :mad1: :mad1: :mad1: :mad1: :mad1: :mad1: :mad1: :mad1: :mad1:

you are an excellent poster. thanks for the insight, really great. blood for oil, troops out now.

My idea? Where I never said that.

Isn't the standard argument for gun control is that they cause gun crime?

 

[YankeeChica]

Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

Guns are not a necessity in modern society.

Cars are required to transport resources and millions of people to work each day.

Huge difference.

Speaking of huge difference, Australia and USA have HUGE difference in terms of geographical locations, history, politics, population and ethinicites which are significan factors regarding gun laws. Therefore comparing australia with USA and hoping that a gun law in australia would work in USA is just ridiculous.

 

[dagwoman]

Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

That's exactly what I'm saying. A young person with a gun + adrenaline + lack of training with such situations = not good.

 

[blahmeh]

Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

How come the homicide rate with firearms is so low in Finland when they have the third highest rate of gun ownership per capita then? There are a lot of firearms in circulation there.

Why isn't it a 24/7 shootout?



tbh it ties into your idea of guns aren't a necessity, I think you were hinting at the fact they cause "crime".

There are always going to be ppl who are going to abuse things....however guns are serious issue they are going to K I L L people as a society we cant take such chances.

 

[blahmeh]

Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

That's exactly what I'm saying. A young person with a gun + adrenaline + lack of training with such situations = not good.

I agree

 

[wheredanton]

Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

How come the homicide rate with firearms is so low in Finland when they have the third highest rate of gun ownership per capita then? There are a lot of firearms in circulation there.
Why isn't it a 24/7 shootout?

Finland is almost a socialist republic. High levels of society welfare help to keep crime down. Finland (and Switzerland, which also has high gun ownership but a low incidence of gun crime) also has compulsuary miltary service.

The gun regulations also seem to be very strict. Semi Automatics have to be in a special gun safe. Licencing is strict.

Additionally, as stated in the wikipedia article

According to the Finnish Ministry of the Interior, firearms are present in approximately one-quarter of Finnish homes, with most being long firearms (rifles and shotguns) licensed for hunting.

...these are not concealable weapons.

Also according to the article automatic weapons are generally not permitted.

 

[jb_nc]

Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

That's exactly what I'm saying. A young person with a gun + adrenaline + lack of training with such situations = not good.

a young person + armed gunman = good?

There are always going to be ppl who are going to abuse things....however guns are serious issue they are going to K I L L people as a society we cant take such chances.

On a brighter note, at least America will try to do something about it hopefully.

great, glad you've decided what's great for society. if you think anything will happen you are naive.

 

[jb_nc]

Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

Finland is almost a socialist republic. High levels of society welfare help to keep crime down.

Finland is a parliamentary democracy.

Finland (and Switzerland, which also has high gun ownership but a low incidence of gun crime) also has compulsuary miltary service.

So?

The gun regulations also seem to be very strict. Semi Automatics have to be in a special gun safe. Licencing is strict.

It's not as though you can have your weapons laying on the coffee table in America.

Additionally, as stated in the wikipedia article


...these are not concealable weapons.

If you can get long rifles, you can get pistols. Pistols are concealable.

Also according to the article automatic weapons are generally not permitted.

The shooting was done with two pistols.

 

[dagwoman]

Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

a young person + armed gunman = good?

Nope, they're both bad. I find it interesting that you seem to want to solve the problem by bringing more guns in to fight existing guns, rather than limiting and further regulating the existing guns.

 

[wheredanton]

Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

Isn't the standard argument for gun control is that they cause gun crime?

Giving citizens access to guns increases the propensity of persons to commit gun violence. Simply if the person doesn't have a gun then the person isn't going to committ gun violence.

Every gun owner can be a responsible sane owner. Every gun owner also has the propensity to become a murderous nutcase. The sane responsible gun owner can morph into a multiple killer.

As seen in finland social attitudes and environment coupled with strong licencing, background checks and compulsuary military training conspire to ensure gun owners don't morph into a killer. If they do morph into a dangerous gun owner it is hoped that regulations are in place that if they become irresponsible and kill people they do so with a single shot rim fire and not an automatic weapon.

 

[xXeMoxXxCoRexX]

Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

High levels of society welfare help to keep crime down.

France :/

 

[wheredanton]

Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

Finland is a parliamentary democracy.

'Almost a socialist republic'. A socialist (ie a left leaning government) government doesn't mean a nation doesn't have a parliament or isn't a democracy.

If a country is a republic it usually means it is a democracy and has a parliament.

What are you on?

France :/

hhaha...
I forgot to mention that Finland doesn't have the race probems of France.

 

[walrusbear]

Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

Finland is a parliamentary democracy.



So?



It's not as though you can have your weapons laying on the coffee table in America.



If you can get long rifles, you can get pistols. Pistols are concealable.



The shooting was done with two pistols.

what was the point of these trite rebuttals? to prove that USA and Finland are comparable? the same??
if so, why does this shit happen so much more in the USA?
and how does looser gun laws actually help prevent these incidents? or does it just rely on theoretical heroic interventions from armed citizens?

 

[jb_nc]

Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

Nope, they're both bad. I find it interesting that you seem to want to solve the problem by bringing more guns in to fight existing guns, rather than limiting and further regulating the existing guns.

There will not be any form of extreme gun control in America. The second amendment will never be repealed.

Guns have never saved anyone life.

what was the point of these trite rebuttals? to prove that USA and Finland are comparable? the same??
if so, why does this shit happen so much more in the USA?
and how does looser gun laws actually help prevent these incidents? or does it just rely on theoretical heroic interventions from armed citizens?

War on Drugs.

 

[jb_nc]

Re: Virginia Tech Shootings

'Almost a socialist republic'. A socialist (ie a left leaning government) government doesn't mean a nation doesn't have a parliament or isn't a democracy.

If a country is a republic it usually means it is a democracy and has a parliament.

Um, the PRC is a socialist republic. Cuba is a socalist republic.

Finland is like those countries? Because PRC totally elects their "leaders". Castro must be good because people keep voting him back in! If you call the People's Republic of China and Cuba "democracies", what are you on?