We have a new pope! (2 Viewers)

[hiphophorray123]

at least now i can say i had sex with the pope before he became famous

 

[jennylim]

They picked a 78 year old, who is going to last 10 years at most.

Funnily enough, John Howard commented that it wasn't "too old".

I reckon Peter Costello must have shitted a brick, when he heard that.

hahahahahhaahahaha, good call.

 

[firehose]

But most of what the church apparently now stands for isnt derived from the bible

For example Benedict VIII banned clerical marriage in the 10th century not beacuse the bible said it but beacuse it was his own personal view.

And why should the church follow the bible anyway? It is a very shallow and backward way of determining ethical values. It is simply a collection of books written by various people over time . It provides guidance, yes. But it should not be the last say on any matter. It may be wrong as well (If you are dumb enough to take the bible literally, then i pity you)
We shouldnt do what some book written thousands of year tells us. We can think for ourselves.

The catholic church is going backwards. They are not keeping up with changing societal mores. And as i said before they will slowly lose influence in the western world (thats why they are scamming people in Africa and South America to follow catholcism)

Nah the church has to follow the bible closely because it's wholly regarded as the word of God. It's regarded by believers as the one sacred text, written over thousands of years, all under God's guidance. See, the reason why there is now so much disagreement within the church over various matters is that people do not want to listen to the bible anymore. Why? Coz they think they can better opinions than that GOD taught. In other wards, they can't even trust GOD's teachings and decide to abide by their own rules. Yes, we can think for ourselves, but how can we be sure that what we are thinking is right? Christians therefore derive their belief from the bible, because anything not from there is not divine teaching.

Hmm, they are slowly losing influence over the western world because people think they do not need to rely on the church anymore. It's natural, when people grow wealthy and live without persecution, they will think they do not need to rely on the Church for guidance anymore, and instead turn to popular cultural and materialist movements.

Also throughout history Christianity has always grown best in developing places, and this continues in Asia and Africa etc.

But yeah i don't agree in the celibacy rule either as it's a rule imposed by one of the popes a long time ago and is not a rule centred on something taught in the Bible.

 

[Rafy]

okay i succumb

*blindly follows the bible*

 

[Rafy]

The SMH internet pole
http://smh.com.au/polls/world/form.html



The new Pope

What do you think of the appointment of Joseph Ratzinger?

He's a rigid conservative, out of step with the times - 53%

He stands for racial tolerance and acceptance - 3%

He brings great wisdom to the job - 21%

It's a pity someone from the developing world wasn't chosen. - 20%


Looks like 73% dont support his appointment

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Do 73% of people even know jack shit anyway?
Seriously, all that we know about this guy... (so far), unless you've been following his life.. is what the media's telling us. "STAUNCH CONSERVATIVE!!!!" is being berrated at us from accross the airways, i wouldn't expect many people to think otherwise (people care little about this issue, and thus will accept what they are told).

 

[Not-That-Bright]

Oh I don't doubt that he's a conservative, i'm just saying that the reason why people believe he's "out of step with the times" is because that's what the media is telling them, they haven't all researched it themselves.
You should know that.

 

[Xayma]

It's a pity someone from the developing world wasn't chosen. - 20%

Doesn't mean they don't support him, they would've just prefered someone from the developing world.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

How the hell do you know that?

'People think John Howard is good because that's what the media tells them, they havn't researched it themselves'

How do I know that? I don't.

No... it assumes that the vast majority of the public doesn't know what they're talking about, especially when it comes to a trivial issue they don't care for.

Yes asquithian, alot of people who probably don't give a rats arse about politics and think John Howard is 'good' is because that's the perception they have created from the media.

 

[Lhyviathan]

Oh I don't doubt that he's a conservative, i'm just saying that the reason why people believe he's "out of step with the times" is because that's what the media is telling them, they haven't all researched it themselves.
You should know that.

If we were to research it, then it'd be through the media.

How many non-media influenced books could there possibly be on the thrilling life of Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger?

Ate a potato.

Got laid. Almost.

Got signed up to the Youth Nazi Party. The grub isn't half bad.

Ate a potato.

Joined the priesthood.

JPII patted me on the head and called me a good boy.

Ate a potato.

I'm not sure how many ways there are of clarifying Ratzinger's conceived conservatism, other than through the eyes of the media.

 

[imhere4themusic]

But most of what the church apparently now stands for isnt derived from the bible

For example Benedict VIII banned clerical marriage in the 10th century not beacuse the bible said it but beacuse it was his own personal view.

And why should the church follow the bible anyway? It is a very shallow and backward way of determining ethical values. It is simply a collection of books written by various people over time . It provides guidance, yes. But it should not be the last say on any matter. It may be wrong as well (If you are dumb enough to take the bible literally, then i pity you)
We shouldnt do what some book written thousands of year tells us. We can think for ourselves.

The catholic church is going backwards. They are not keeping up with changing societal mores. And as i said before they will slowly lose influence in the western world (thats why they are scamming people in Africa and South America to follow catholcism)

Don't pity me I never said I believed in it. But these people do. I know there are things in and out of the bible but it is considered at church as the word of god. I've been to many churches and they say that. It doesn't matter how shallow it is they still believe in it. And they also obviously believe that the ban on clerical marriage. I know what you're saying about not taking it so literally but it seems the people who matter in the church.. like the Pope obviously do. And that's the matter. That is why they won't change. Why should they change anyway?

 

[stamos]

"by fundamental, you can learn about the spirit of the teaching and leave out the contextual stuff"

hey that's great

now i can just follow the bits of the bible that i like and say the other things are anachronisms

 

[Korn]

Well I'm sorry you can't accept my views but hey, if you did, what fun would that be?! I'm not angry at all.

All I'm saying is this:

I'm not pessimistic, I want change, I don't agree with the church on everything. I am christian also, baptised Catholic then strayed away now attended Anglican masses.. I find them just different takes on the same movie..

Apart from all the wants and changes and needs in todays modern world i still don't think the Church should change. The bible DOES state that sex outside of marriage is wrong and such. Some people question the credibility of the bible. Whether or not it is real or made up it clearly states rules. The people of the church over a long time have come to what THIER UNDERSTANDING of these rules are. To break the rules is a mortal sin.. and to break them but confess on your deathbed like korn suggested probably isn't a sure-fire way to get in to heaven either. So these people, who BELIEVE in this book totally as the AUTHORITY AND WORD OF GOD have decided it's best to follow it or spend an eternity rotting in hell. That is what they believe. I'm not pessimistic in telling anyone to walk away I'm telling you that the church won't change on these things. It just doesn't make sense to me why someone would change their beliefs and basis for all life on earth to cop out for the media and other people. I believe in abortion, but if you want an abortion go do it. The church isn't stopping you they just disagree with it. You will be forgiven if your heart is true anyway. If you don't believe in priestly celibacy become a pope and then have sex. The church won't stop you half way through the act. Contrary to popular belief the Church doesn't control a large portion of the world, directly. It influences the world yes, but if people don't like it, don't be influenced by it.

What I am saying is the Church is not your mother. You can still be a practicsing christian loving Jesus and not go to church, or not go to the catholic church. If you want these views, go to a progressive church, just not the local catholic down the street. The church doesn't slap you on your hand like your mother does when you reach for something you can't have. I acts as an advisory board, it gives you a choice, just like god ironically. It tells you all the facts and then leaves it up to you to decide. Getting the Catholic Church and the Pope to change their views is like getting blood out of a stone, and as much as you hate it; for the rest of your life on this earth they are going to try and change yours instead. Pressuring the church into "change" isn't going to "change" anything. It would be a measly victory over a small argument. People should back off the Pope, he looks like a nice man.

I'm not meaning to offend anyones views again I'm just trying to point out. The very spirit of the first Pope Peter, is still here today. The rock. The church. They are equal and they are not moving. I just don't think the church will change it's views, no matter whether I, you, or anyone else thinks they should.

Very true, ppl are misguided if they they think that there petty arguments will change the church

 

[Korn]

But most of what the church apparently now stands for isnt derived from the bible

For example Benedict VIII banned clerical marriage in the 10th century not beacuse the bible said it but beacuse it was his own personal view.

And why should the church follow the bible anyway? It is a very shallow and backward way of determining ethical values. It is simply a collection of books written by various people over time . It provides guidance, yes. But it should not be the last say on any matter. It may be wrong as well (If you are dumb enough to take the bible literally, then i pity you)
We shouldnt do what some book written thousands of year tells us. We can think for ourselves.

The catholic church is going backwards. They are not keeping up with changing societal mores. And as i said before they will slowly lose influence in the western world (thats why they are scamming people in Africa and South America to follow catholcism)

The Bible was written by God (suppossedly or at least with his guidance) So how dare you question the word of God, u little infidel, sorry i mean blasphermer?

 

[Korn]

Do 73% of people even know jack shit anyway?
Seriously, all that we know about this guy... (so far), unless you've been following his life.. is what the media's telling us. "STAUNCH CONSERVATIVE!!!!" is being berrated at us from accross the airways, i wouldn't expect many people to think otherwise (people care little about this issue, and thus will accept what they are told).

Most ppl will accept what they are told regardless of whether they care or not, its usually the easier option and they trust what they hear in the media

 

[Korn]

If we were to research it, then it'd be through the media.

How many non-media influenced books could there possibly be on the thrilling life of Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger?



I'm not sure how many ways there are of clarifying Ratzinger's conceived conservatism, other than through the eyes of the media.

There would be quite a few, like his own published works, there are probably also academic or scholarly articles

 

[sugared plum]

The Bible was written by God (suppossedly or at least with his guidance) So how dare you question the word of God, u little infidel, sorry i mean blasphermer?

large parts of the bible (and this is widely accepted) were not written by G-d, but by misinformed followers. if you are christian, you will understand this, as Jesus actually acknowledges this.

in historical terms, jesus treated women with respect, condemning popular misogyny. yet, after Jesus died, whoever wrote Timothy (paul or other) went against Jesus's teachings and denied women rights granted to men, and generally viewed women as secondly, subordinate.

and jennylim: no matter how you interpret it, being told you cannot speak in public is a severe infringement on human rights.

 

[Korn]

large parts of the bible (and this is widely accepted) were not written by G-d, but by misinformed followers. if you are christian, you will understand this, as Jesus actually acknowledges this.

in historical terms, jesus treated women with respect, condeming popular mysogyny. yet, after Jesus died, whoever wrote Timothy (paul or other) went against Jesus's teachings and denied women rights granted to men, and generally viewed women as secondly, subordinate.

and jennylim: no matter how you interpret it, being told you cannot speak in public is a severe infringement on human rights.

What they actually acknowledge that ppl wrote the Bible and it doesnt necessarily represent God's word

 

[MoonlightSonata]

and jennylim: no matter how you interpret it, being told you cannot speak in public is a severe infringement on human rights.

Unless you're slandering someone

 

[sugared plum]

prohibit or punish.
that's the question.